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14 dead, 50 injured by lone gunman in Batman premiere in Colorado


big_dish

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Good thing there were no CCW permit holders in there to stop him. This is exactly why trained, licensed firearm owners should not be allowed to concealed carry. Wouldn't want these nutjobs interrupted before they can kill more people. Right? /end sarcasm

Your "Cowboy justice" could have saved 14 loved ones and possibly 50+ more from suffering. Your (and you all know who you are) stance to keep trained, vetted, law abiding citizens from the right to protect themselves is almost as bad as the people who commit these crimes. People like you (you know who you are) enable this kind of person, and virtually encourage him. Jane Fondas.

[url="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/several-reportedly-dead-injured-after-shooting-at-colorado-movie-theater/"]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/several-reportedly-dead-injured-after-shooting-at-colorado-movie-theater/[/url]

[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]At least 14 people have been killed and up to 50 injured after a mass shooting at a showing of "The Dark Knight Rises" at a suburban Denver movie theater, police say.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]The suspect, believed to be the lone gunman, is in police custody. KUSA reports that the suspect kicked down an emergency door at the theater, threw in some type of a smoke bomb and began shooting when moviegoers started to run.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]Witnesses say they heard a series of explosions and up to 20 gunshots after the scene grew chaotic. About 100 witnesses were taken to a local high school to be questioned by police.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]Police, ambulances and emergency crews swarmed on the Aurora, Colo., theater after frantic 911 calls around 12:30 a.m. local time, officials said.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]The suspect reportedly fired shots inside the theater and fled to the parking lot and was confronted by police already at the theater for crowd control.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]The suspect's identity was not released, but was wearing a bullet-proof vest and in his 20s, police said. The gunman was carrying a rifle and two handguns, police said. The handguns may have been placed in the theater before the shooting.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]President Obama said he is "shocked and saddened" by the mass shooting and urged the nation to "come together as one American family." He said his administration will do everything it can to support the people of Aurora, Colo. Obama was in Florida at the time of the shooting. The White House says Obama was informed of the shooting by his Homeland Security Advisor, John Brennan.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]James Cameron, who was in an adjacent theater, said he hear commotion and screaming. People seated around him began coughing and having difficulty breathing.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]"By the sound of it, it sounds like there could have been three or four guys shooting," he said.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]Audra Mincey, a spokeswoman for the Swedish Medical Center, told Fox News there are two patients in critical condition.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]Mincey said the hospital set up its incident command center and mobilized personnel.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]President Obama released a statement saying he was "saddened"to learn about the shooting and that his administration will do everything it can to support the people of Aurora.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]Earlier reports said there may have been a second shooter, but police believe only one shooter was involved, KDVR tells Fox News.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]Police Chief Dan Oates says city police are checking the area for explosives. The suspect's apartment building was evacuated.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]Police spokeswoman Cassidee Carlson says "the scene is still very active and we have little information for release at this time."[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]Witness Hayden Miller told KUSA-TV that he was inside Theater 16 and heard several shots.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]"Like little explosions going on and shortly after that we heard people screaming," he told the station.[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left][background=transparent]Hayden said at first he thought it was part of a louder movie next door. But then he saw "people hunched over leaving theater."[/background][/left][/size][/font][/color]


[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][left]Read more: [/left][/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/several-reportedly-dead-injured-after-shooting-at-colorado-movie-theater/#ixzz21AEH9trQ"]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/several-reportedly-dead-injured-after-shooting-at-colorado-movie-theater/#ixzz21AEH9trQ[/url]
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[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1342786909' post='1139807']
Good thing there were no CCW permit holders in there to stop him. This is exactly why trained, licensed firearm owners should not be allowed to concealed carry. Wouldn't want these nutjobs interrupted before they can kill more people. Right? /end sarcasm

Your "Cowboy justice" could have saved 14 loved ones and possibly 50+ more from suffering. Your (and you all know who you are) stance to keep trained, vetted, law abiding citizens from the right to protect themselves is almost as bad as the people who commit these crimes. People like you (you know who you are) enable this kind of person, and virtually encourage him. Jane Fondas.[/quote]

Lol. I'm your Huckleberry.

I suggest you cool your jets long enough to re-read the article you posted. Think it through.

Because the obvious remedy to prevent this kind of tragedy is to have one (or two, or five) more shooters open up in a smoky dark room full of screaming, stampeding people.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qbeIwn5jR8[/media]

edit: to place diff version of Fonda-inspired tune.
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What were the gas canisters that were used ? The suspect had a gas mask.

No CCW would have solved this from happening. However, it depends on what Colorado laws are.

[quote]Even in localities where concealed carrying is permitted, there may be legal restrictions on where a person may carry a concealed weapon. Typical examples include the prohibition of concealed carry in:
•public or private elementary and secondary schools (the Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 contains an exception for individuals carrying under a state-issued permit, but some states that issue permits forbid carry in school buildings and/or on school property)
•establishments that sell alcohol (some ban carry from all such establishments such as retail liquor stores and supermarkets, others from businesses that sell alcohol "by the drink" for on-premises consumption, still others only from businesses falling under the state's definition of a "bar" or "nightclub")
•government buildings (State Capitol, courthouses, police stations, federal buildings, post offices)
•public accommodations ([color=#FF0000][b]theaters[/b][/color], concert halls)
•public events (polling places, state fairs, public parks, stadiums and other sporting venues).[/quote]
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[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1342788858' post='1139830']
What were the gas canisters that were used ? The suspect had a gas mask.

No CCW would have solved this from happening. However, it depends on what Colorado laws are.
[/quote]

I'm going to go in a different direction...

I'll agree, no CCW would have solved this. But I don't think any stricter gun laws would have either. This is a case of a person that needs some serious help. if it hadn't been guns, could have just as easily been McVeigh-ish fertilizer bomb, pipe bombs, etc. if he has his mind made up to do something like this a stricter gun law isn't going to stop it. There is too much information freely available and material easily acquired to have accomplished the same thing.
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[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1342788796' post='1139827']
Lol. I'm your Huckleberry.

I suggest you cool your jets long enough to re-read the article you posted. Think it through.

[color=#ff0000]Because the obvious remedy to prevent this kind of tragedy is to have one (or two, or five) more shooters open up in a smoky dark room full of screaming, stampeding people.[/color]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qbeIwn5jR8[/media]

edit: to place diff version of Fonda-inspired tune.
[/quote]

Pretty much this. The idea that some weekend hero would have saved the day is pretty silly. In a dark crowded theater it would have been worse.
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[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1342788796' post='1139827']
Lol. I'm your Huckleberry.

I suggest you cool your jets long enough to re-read the article you posted. Think it through.

Because the obvious remedy to prevent this kind of tragedy is to have one (or two, or five) more shooters open up in a smoky dark room full of screaming, stampeding people.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qbeIwn5jR8[/media]

edit: to place diff version of Fonda-inspired tune.
[/quote]

Tear gas isnt a smoke bomb... but it would have been dark obviously. So, if I, for instance was sitting in the front row when this dude busted in the emergency door an opened fire, I couldn't have stopped him? Whats to say the first person in front of him couldnt have been a CCW holder and stopped the carnage right off the bat? I'd rather take my chances any day with that, than have a mad man murder at will with no chance of being stopped.

By the way, its nice to see all the typical criminal lovers coming out of the cracks... Lets do everything we can for criminals to run rampant, and do as little as we can to allow people to defend themselves. This guy probably shouldnt even go to jail, for fear that we will hurt his feelings, right?
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[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1342796324' post='1139862']
Tear gas isnt a smoke bomb... but it would have been dark obviously. So, if I, for instance was sitting in the front row when this dude busted in the emergency door an opened fire, I couldn't have stopped him? Whats to say the first person in front of him couldnt have been a CCW holder and stopped the carnage right off the bat? I'd rather take my chances any day with that, than have a mad man murder at will with no chance of being stopped.

By the way, its nice to see all the typical criminal lovers coming out of the cracks... Lets do everything we can for criminals to run rampant, and do as little as we can to allow people to defend themselves. This guy probably shouldnt even go to jail, for fear that we will hurt his feelings, right?
[/quote]

Please stop acting like a stereotype; you are making anyone who believes in appropriate gun rights look bad.
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[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1342796324' post='1139862']
Tear gas isnt a smoke bomb... but it would have been dark obviously. So, if I, for instance was sitting in the front row when this dude busted in the emergency door an opened fire, I couldn't have stopped him? Whats to say the first person in front of him couldnt have been a CCW holder and stopped the carnage right off the bat? I'd rather take my chances any day with that, than have a mad man murder at will with no chance of being stopped.

By the way, its nice to see all the typical criminal lovers coming out of the cracks... Lets do everything we can for criminals to run rampant, and do as little as we can to allow people to defend themselves. This guy probably shouldnt even go to jail, for fear that we will hurt his feelings, right?
[/quote]

I think all we are learning here is that you will go to pretty much any length to justify your ideological position. Because I disagree I am a criminal lover? Please. Because I think that CCW is poor public policy I oppose people defending themselves?

Let me ask this: Just how deep must the river of blood flow to get you to stop trying to rationalize your ancient code of eye-for-an-eye justice as being the only form of justice available to humanity?

You know, some cowboys can play a pretty mean guitar. Maybe you ought to consider transferring your apparently abundant psycho-sexual energies into a milder form of phallic-fetishism?
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If it was tear gas then all the more reason not to open fire. Having received tear gas on numerous occasions as part of training, I can testify that your eyesite is almost as bad as a dark room with little or no ability to focus.

It is my opinion that most people who have a CWP or the equivilent do not have the ability to properly handle a situation like this. Imagine for one moment you are perhaps sitting in the back row out of the way and perhaps eyeballing your girlfriend or something. You have a concealed weapon. All of the sudden a couple loud bangs and you try and focus on where the noise is coming from. Out of the corner of your tearing eye and shadows of the room, you see someone standing there with a weapon in their hand firing at another person. Do you fire ? If you have never been through a course of fire involving loud noise, limited vision, pop targets, etc... then it may just be a bad judgment call to open fire... Can you be sure the person you see firing at the other person is the " bad " guy or is it someone protecting another person ? Lastly, by the time it took to figure all of this out, the guy already had 14 people dead. about 20 seconds for 20 rounds...give or take a few seconds.
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[quote name='Xombie' timestamp='1342798254' post='1139864']
Please stop acting like a stereotype; you are making anyone who believes in appropriate gun rights look bad.
[/quote]

What is the stereotype? And what are appropriate gun rights? Please explain. If I am stereotyped as someone who refuses to be victim of murder, or someone that would put his life on the line to stop the murder of innocent people, than that is perfectly fine with me.

[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1342802919' post='1139876']
I think all we are learning here is that you will go to pretty much any length to justify your ideological position. Because I disagree I am a criminal lover? Please. Because I think that CCW is poor public policy I oppose people defending themselves?

Let me ask this: Just how deep must the river of blood flow to get you to stop trying to rationalize your ancient code of eye-for-an-eye justice as being the only form of justice available to humanity?

You know, some cowboys can play a pretty mean guitar. Maybe you ought to consider transferring your apparently abundant psycho-sexual energies into a milder form of phallic-fetishism?
[/quote]

The criminal lover comment wasn't directed towards you, it just happened to be in a reply to your quote... it was in regards to most of the other replies so far.

How do you suppose people would be able to defend themselves against a gunman intent on mass murder, without a gun themselves? I dont understand. I'm also not advocating eye-for-an-eye justice here (although I'm not against it in theory- less prison overpopulation and animals get what they deserve, but I digress)... I am advocating people have the option to defend themselves- and most states agree with me. In fact, all states that enact CCW see a drop in violent crime. Eye for an eye is after the crime, not becoming the victim in the first place is my priority.

[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1342804281' post='1139883']
If it was tear gas then all the more reason not to open fire. Having received tear gas on numerous occasions as part of training, I can testify that your eyesite is almost as bad as a dark room with little or no ability to focus.

It is my opinion that most people who have a CWP or the equivilent do not have the ability to properly handle a situation like this. Imagine for one moment you are perhaps sitting in the back row out of the way and perhaps eyeballing your girlfriend or something. You have a concealed weapon. All of the sudden a couple loud bangs and you try and focus on where the noise is coming from. Out of the corner of your tearing eye and shadows of the room, you see someone standing there with a weapon in their hand firing at another person. Do you fire ? If you have never been through a course of fire involving loud noise, limited vision, pop targets, etc... then it may just be a bad judgment call to open fire... Can you be sure the person you see firing at the other person is the " bad " guy or is it someone protecting another person ? Lastly, by the time it took to figure all of this out, the guy already had 14 people dead. about 20 seconds for 20 rounds...give or take a few seconds.
[/quote]

I've been through the gas chamber three times, with concentrated tear gas. I know how it feels. One canister released in a huge theater would cause some tears and coughing, but its not incapacitating. And, in your example, no, you likely would know better than to fire from the back row in a tear-gassed room... my contention is, out of the (100? 200?) people in there, if there were 5 CCW permit holders, and one was sitting right up close, he could have ended it, or at least knocked the gunman backwards/off his aim. Even with body armor, a .40 slug or a .45 slug would give a man a pretty good knock- probably even take him down to the ground. This dude came armed to the teeth, the only thing that was going to stop him was a bullet or running out of ammo. I believe he finally ran out of ammo....
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[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1342804856' post='1139886']
But here is the question to ask yourself, if we did have more relaxed CW laws would that shooter have thought twice in the first place to do what he did?
[/quote]

And by the way (not sure if this is directed at me) I'm not asking for more relaxed CCW laws or availability. I'm saying that CCW permit holders being allowed to carry in places like movie theaters would let criminals like this guy know that he may face resistance, and possibly wouldnt carry out the crime if he knew the possibility of dying before he could carry out his mission. When places like theaters put up those little signs that say no concealed carry- all it does it keep trained, law abiding citizens from protecting themselves, and gives criminals a perfect place to unleash hell.

I always carry in places (that dont serve alcohol) regardless of the signs. Police showing up 5 minutes after I, or others are shot does no good.
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[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1342804856' post='1139886']
But here is the question to ask yourself, if we did have more relaxed CW laws would that shooter have thought twice in the first place to do what he did?
[/quote]

absolutely not... the person who does this type of thing usually either kills themselves afterwards, or basically makes the police kill them. They very very rarely go in to it thinking they are going to get away with it without something like that happening.

Also if you are capable of doing something like this, you aren't a very rational/sane person in the first place.... So no, I don't think more relaxed laws would have changed a thing. Stricter ones may keep some guns out of psychotic peoples hands though...
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[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1342805236' post='1139888']


What is the stereotype? And what are appropriate gun rights? Please explain. If I am stereotyped as someone who refuses to be victim of murder, or someone that would put his life on the line to stop the murder of innocent people, than that is perfectly fine with me.



The criminal lover comment wasn't directed towards you, it just happened to be in a reply to your quote... it was in regards to most of the other replies so far.

How do you suppose people would be able to defend themselves against a gunman intent on mass murder, without a gun themselves? I dont understand. I'm also not advocating eye-for-an-eye justice here (although I'm not against it in theory- less prison overpopulation and animals get what they deserve, but I digress)... I am advocating people have the option to defend themselves- and most states agree with me. In fact, all states that enact CCW see a drop in violent crime. Eye for an eye is after the crime, not becoming the victim in the first place is my priority.



I've been through the gas chamber three times, with concentrated tear gas. I know how it feels. One canister released in a huge theater would cause some tears and coughing, but its not incapacitating. And, in your example, no, you likely would know better than to fire from the back row in a tear-gassed room... my contention is, out of the (100? 200?) people in there, if there were 5 CCW permit holders, and one was sitting right up close, he could have ended it, or at least knocked the gunman backwards/off his aim. Even with body armor, a .40 slug or a .45 slug would give a man a pretty good knock- probably even take him down to the ground. This dude came armed to the teeth, the only thing that was going to stop him was a bullet or running out of ammo. I believe he finally ran out of ammo....
[/quote]

Not necessarily incapacitating but certainly limits your ability to focus. Having more people carrying makes it a shooting gallery with possibly a bunch of rank amateurs. Being around people not taught to properly id a threat is going to result in further loss of innocent lives. If you've been through the gas chamber or any other formal type of military training then you might know how to properly id a target. Would you seriously want someone who has limited time handling a weapon to be anywhere near you ? Friendly fire happens pretty frequently even with a uniform on. Now add the fact you don't have that factor for id. People who think that an afternoon course or so on the range makes them an expert or something remotely similar is an extremely dangerous person.
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[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1342805236' post='1139888']
What is the stereotype? And what are appropriate gun rights? Please explain. If I am stereotyped as someone who refuses to be victim of murder, or someone that would put his life on the line to stop the murder of innocent people, than that is perfectly fine with me.


[/quote]

The stereotype of the hyper-macho, Cool Hand Luke; expert gunslinger who sees everything in John Woo bullet time and always is radiating the overcompensating hero complex. And as for appropriate gun rights, I have few problems with carry laws. I believe in citizens being able to own weapons for hunting and self-defense, but I believe that there should be manadatory gun insurance, just as there is car insurance. I believe every gun owner should be made available to random on premise inspections, within appropriate hours, of their homes by police officers to verify that the guns they own are still under the control of their legal owners and are insured. I want police officers to know, when they pull someone over or arrive at someone's home, whether or not they own weapon. I want people who are convicted of a crime while using an illegally possessed gun to have their punishment elevated to the highest possible level of allowable punishment, in respect to their crime. I want people with carry permits who commit a crime with their own legally owned weapon to suffer the next tier's worth of punishment with respect of the crime's normal punishment. Those are just a few tidbits of what I would consider appropriate, and appropriately regulated, gun laws.
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[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1342807926' post='1139895']


Not necessarily incapacitating but certainly limits your ability to focus. Having more people carrying makes it a shooting gallery with possibly a bunch of rank amateurs. Being around people not taught to properly id a threat is going to result in further loss of innocent lives. If you've been through the gas chamber or any other formal type of military training then you might know how to properly id a target. Would you seriously want someone who has limited time handling a weapon to be anywhere near you ? Friendly fire happens pretty frequently even with a uniform on. Now add the fact you don't have that factor for id. People who think that an afternoon course or so on the range makes them an expert or something remotely similar is an extremely dangerous person.
[/quote]

I would +1 if I wasn't on my phone
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Who is to say a guy doesn't legally carry a weapon into a theatre and shoot up the place. I can all but guarantee that if you measured the iq of those against cc and those with permits it would be clear that the smarter ones were not on the cc side
Also if you measured them mentally the would be paranoid and delusional
We are evolved beyond this
The only person I know with this permit is such a heartless redneck asshole that I am certainly biased
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1342810412' post='1139903']
Who is to say a guy doesn't legally carry a weapon into a theatre and shoot up the place. I can all but guarantee that if you measured the iq of those against cc and those with permits it would be clear that the smarter ones were not on the cc side
Also if you measured them mentally the would be paranoid and delusional
We are evolved beyond this
The only person I know with this permit is such a heartless redneck asshole that I am certainly biased
[/quote]

And now comes the elitist, psuedo-intellectual stereotype... Want to piss on all those "heartless, redneck assholes'" faith(s), as well?
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I'm not religious but there are very few conservatives that I meet that don't walk this ridiculous line between living a life of wealth consumption and claiming to want to follow christs example
To be honest I should have added a caveat for you because I think you are making some very reasonable points and at least are not using the death of fourteen people to push your agenda
People who I view as actually living out their religion are not redneck assholes
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[quote name='Xombie' timestamp='1342810642' post='1139906']
.... Want to piss on all those "heartless, redneck assholes'" faith(s), as well?
[/quote]

yes, but only when their SkyFairy™ gets used as an excuse for them to be racist dickfaces.
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