T-Dub Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343281586' post='1140854'] Nope but a truck bomb like Timothy McVeigh made would have killed more... [/quote] Exactly! That's why owning a truck bomb is illegal. There weren't thousands of truck bombs available to anyone that wants one. They had to break a number of laws in order to construct one and, after the bombing, the government passed laws requiring chemical "tags" be added to fertilizer to make it easier to trace, as well as raising the security around federal buildings. I'm glad you understand, because for a second there it almost seemed like you were trying to use that classic kid's "but Timmy's parents let him have three scoops of ice cream!!" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343349505' post='1140976'] Anyone and everyone that really knows government, knows that the President is nothing but a figurehead to the wealthy. Feel free to Google the Illuminati and the Free Masons. When you are done reading about them, go read up on Ted Nuggent. Eventually you'll see as citizens we need to keep one hand on our guns, and one eye on our own government. The government we have today is nowhere near the government our fore fathers imagined. [/quote] The Illuminati and Free Masons!!!! [img]http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001275825/28379_yes_nbsp_don_tin_foil_hat_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg[/img] Ted Nugent can go fuck himself with a nice hot iron. Oh and I highly doubt our forefathers had the forbearance to know we would be facing the type of military firepower we would be facing if we ever came to what you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343349505' post='1140976'] go read up on Ted Nuggent [/quote] [img]http://www.shalomlife.com/img/2012/04/17018/ted_nugent_600x450_/400_300_ted_nugent_600x450_.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullichicken25 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343338427' post='1140927'] Not if they brought a gun. You know why the indians lost the war for the wild west? They brought bows and arrows to a gun fight. [/quote] Oversimplification at its finest Stick a cowboy and an Indian in a close quarters, one on one fight and is say its pretty Damn close to 50/50 whose walking out alive I think there's a general misconception about how easy it actually is to pull out a weapon and kill someone in a chaotic/panic environment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='mullichicken25' timestamp='1343352848' post='1140998'] Oversimplification at its finest Stick a cowboy and an Indian in a close quarters, one on one fight and is say its pretty Damn close to 50/50 whose walking out alive [color=#ff0000]I think there's a general misconception about how easy it actually is to pull out a weapon and kill someone in a chaotic/panic environment[/color] [/quote] No shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullichicken25 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1343353112' post='1141002'] No shit [/quote] If I wasnt on my phone id post a video of that scene from pulp fiction where that dude comes out of the bathroom and tries to kill Samuel l Jackson with the "hand cannon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343338427' post='1140927'] Not if they brought a gun. You know why the indians lost the war for the wild west? They brought bows and arrows to a gun fight. [/quote] You really believe that? Go read up on Geronimo. Hint: That's him on the right, holding the really long bow with the trigger on it. [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ge0pZ-aYdtc/Tcb5QB-E6bI/AAAAAAAACJw/cpLnYlecu04/s400/Apache_chieff_Geronimo_right_and_his_warriors_in_1886.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1343355110' post='1141012'] You really believe that? Go read up on Geronimo. Hint: That's him on the right, holding the really long bow with the trigger on it. [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ge0pZ-aYdtc/Tcb5QB-E6bI/AAAAAAAACJw/cpLnYlecu04/s400/Apache_chieff_Geronimo_right_and_his_warriors_in_1886.jpg[/img] [/quote] And don't forget that Custer was crushed at Little Big Horn because his troops were massively out-gunned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Sorry I'm speaking from the position of someone that has had close quarters combat training. I've went through pepper spray and CS gas training and the like. I said it earlier, during a lot of the most recent tragedies there have been heroes born that helped subdue the shooter. In this case everyone played turtle. To each their own, the way people act in events such as this depends a lot on someone's training, upbringing, or simply their instincts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Sorry, Lewdog, for piling on. I just can't resist. Does Ted Nuggent play for Marshall Law? (nsfw language at beginning) [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tt_T9uw11Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tt_T9uw11Q[/url] Let me ask everyone this, because Squirrel hit it on the head: If the need for an armed militia to fight our own government were to arise, wouldn't it be a confirmation that the American revolutionary experiment had failed? I know about Jefferson and his radical "overthrow the government every 20 years" bullshit, so don't go there unless you are able to more completely explicate that theme. If we cannot maintain or transform the principles of our founding in accord with current social requirements, then who is to blame? Lastly, why has this incipient, infantile narcissism with relation to guns, violence, and crude justice overtaken our society today? It was less than 50 years ago that perhaps the best, and certain the most moral, example of non-violent political activity potently changed this country. I've been lucky enough to meet a number of folks who participated in the Civil Rights movement--from regular folks to a couple of "movers and shakers"--and believe me, their form of courage is equal to--indeed, if it doesn't surpass--all the bluster about shooting back in the heat of the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343357091' post='1141018'] I said it earlier, during a lot of the most recent tragedies there have been heroes born that helped subdue the shooter. [/quote] Care to name one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1343358652' post='1141026'] Care to name one? [/quote] Gabriel Giffords shooter for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343361520' post='1141033'] Gabriel Giffords shooter for one. [/quote] Oh, I thought you meant using a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1343366580' post='1141042'] Oh, I thought you meant using a gun. [/quote] No but people tackled the guy and wrestled away his gun, preventing him from killing more people. Heck look at what the people on 9-11 did knowing they were going to die. They broke down the cockpit door and caused the plane to crash in an empty area saving who knows how many lives. Columbine people saved lives risking their own...the list goes on. It's just something you have in your genes or you don't. You just won't know if you are a fight or flight person until the situation arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyInDC Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9WR3zT3G94[/media] I like Rollins Band's take on it... [quote]...I wonder what you're like without the gun I'd like to see when you're not hiding behind the gun how you would live your life without the gun 'cause I know how I live mine because you got one, yeah, 'cause that's what it is hidin' behind your gun you take life, you're just another pig to me you think you're different but you're just another pig yeah, a pig, yeah you gotta have a gun then you're just another pig to me you think you're different but you're just another pig you gotta have a gun, you're a pig to me, just a pig to me you gotta have a gun, you're just another pig to me you got a gun, you're just another pig a gun in your hand makes a fool out of you, oh yeah a gun in your hand makes a target out of me, oh no freedom, you need your freedom, you want your freedom, your freedom is killing you man, freedom you can't handle freedom, hey and now you're dying for it[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343361520' post='1141033'] Gabriel Giffords shooter for one. [/quote] [url="http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2011/01/friendly_firearms.html"]Whoops...[/url] This difference in opinions really comes down to one divide: does one want a society with less violence or one with more violence? Age old question; age old psychological issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343368660' post='1141044'] You just won't know if you are a fight or flight person until the situation arises. [/quote] I think the situation dictates that, its not a personality trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1343350779' post='1140989'] The Illuminati and Free Masons!!!! [img]http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001275825/28379_yes_nbsp_don_tin_foil_hat_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg[/img] Ted Nugent can go fuck himself with a nice hot iron. Oh and I highly doubt our forefathers had the forbearance to know we would be facing the type of military firepower we would be facing if we ever came to what you suggest. [/quote] You do realize you're debating an idiot, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1343402916' post='1141100'] You do realize you're debating an idiot, don't you? [/quote] I normally agree to a point with him on bengals related stuff, and i do agree with him about why the 2nd amendment was put in place, but once he referenced Ted Nuget and the Illuminati and Free Masons, well those conspiracy groups are a bit over the top, and Nuget is a major douche whose music is bad enough without talking about his politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1343394172' post='1141065'] [url="http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2011/01/friendly_firearms.html"]Whoops...[/url] This difference in opinions really comes down to one divide: does one want a society with less violence or one with more violence? Age old question; age old psychological issues. [/quote] Yes that is what this boils down to. However, how the US proceeds to curb the violence is an arguable point. Without changing the culture, taking away guns will not stop the violence and may not have any effect. Americans are a creative bunch of people who will always find a way around the issue. For instance, Google "build party" on the net to see how easy it is to own one without any registration. Triggers for other items are available at Radio Shack. Napalm substitutes can be made simply. Most of the recent killings has shown a certain amount of planning went into these events. Not exactly a spur of the moment type of thing. Taking away guns is an easy answer but not the answer that will work. Eliminating all white males ( see my post on the shooter statistics ) would possibly work.... Note sarcasm in previous sentence... Change the culture. Check the major cities to determine if their gun laws have stopped the violent crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1343402916' post='1141100'] You do realize you're debating an idiot, don't you? [/quote] Yeah, coming from a car salesman you have a lot of room to talk. You patched over any rusted spots with duct tape and spray paint lately? [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1343403520' post='1141103'] I normally agree to a point with him on bengals related stuff, and i do agree with him about why the 2nd amendment was put in place, but once he referenced Ted Nuget and the Illuminati and Free Masons, well those conspiracy groups are a bit over the top, and Nuget is a major douche whose music is bad enough without talking about his politics. [/quote] Everyone has their difference in opinion on some subjects. If you don't think the top richest people on the planet control the other 99% then you are being naive. The Illuminati and Free Masons are just that, but with a name to the faces. As far as Ted Nuggent goes, he's a board member of the NRA and adamant about his right to own and carry fire arms. Sure he might be a little strange to some folks, but his ideas are basic. The more control citizens give to the government the closer we get to becoming the same types of countries we are supposedly freeing from oppression. The United States was founded on a simple principal that citizens could have as much freedom as possible and that government was the glue that bound everyone together. Since 1776 though there has been nothing but restrictions placed on us, and what was meant to be a democracy has become more and more a ruling of many by a few. If you think you have the same freedoms as a millionaire or government official then you are misguided. As a collective we need to fight to ensure we quit giving up our freedoms so that this country can continue to be what it was intended to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I think there is a difference between the 1% and [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]Illuminati and Free Masons. One is demonstrable by facts and data, the other is silly conspiracy theory. [/color][/font] [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]I would suggest to you that government investment in infrastructure like roads and bridges, gave our citizenry more freedom than anything else this country has ever done and by far more freedom than anything the private sector has done. [/color][/font] I would also suggest to you that you do some research on the differences between fascism and democracy. As far as Nuget goes, he's another Tea Party idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1343405797' post='1141118'] I think there is a difference between the 1% and [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]Illuminati and Free Masons. One is demonstrable by facts and data, the other is silly conspiracy theory. [/color][/font] [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]I would suggest to you that government investment in infrastructure like roads and bridges, gave our citizenry more freedom than anything else and by far more freedom than anything the private sector has done. [/color][/font] I would also suggest to you that you do some research on the differences between fascism and democracy. [/quote] Oh I know the difference between the two. If you need proof that this has no longer a democracy look no further than the 'Hanging chad' election of Bush into the White House. The Judicial system, not the citizens of the country and their votes, elected Bush President. Are you really saying the Free Masons don't exist? Come on Jamie are you living in a bubble? Drive through many various towns and you will find a building with no windows constructed from concrete with a Free Masons symbol on the side of it. Is it just a coincidence that the VAST majority of the US Presidents were a member of the Free Masons? As far as the Illumanati are concerned, it's just the Free Masons on a world wide scale. It's real, it's been filmed and documented. One of the most famous mediators of all time, Henry Kissinger, is a high ranking member of the Illumanati. [url="http://new-world-order-nwo.blogspot.com/2007/05/henry-kissinger-top-illuminati-member.html"]http://new-world-order-nwo.blogspot.com/2007/05/henry-kissinger-top-illuminati-member.html[/url] I'm not talking conspiracy theories here, I'm talking common sense. The world by far is a majority of free enterprises, so why should it surprise you that money rules? If you have the money, and others want the money, they will do what you want them to do, even if it might be against their best interest. Even if someone says no, there will be someone standing behind them ready to step up and take on the deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1343406335' post='1141120'] Oh I know the difference between the two. If you need proof that this has no longer a democracy look no further than the 'Hanging chad' election of Bush into the White House. The Judicial system, not the citizens of the country and their votes, elected Bush President. Are you really saying the Free Masons don't exist? Come on Jamie are you living in a bubble? Drive through many various towns and you will find a building with no windows constructed from concrete with a Free Masons symbol on the side of it. Is it just a coincidence that the VAST majority of the US Presidents were a member of the Free Masons? As far as the Illumanati are concerned, it's just the Free Masons on a world wide scale. It's real, it's been filmed and documented. One of the most famous mediators of all time, Henry Kissinger, is a high ranking member of the Illumanati. [url="http://new-world-order-nwo.blogspot.com/2007/05/henry-kissinger-top-illuminati-member.html"]http://new-world-ord...ati-member.html[/url] I'm not talking conspiracy theories here, I'm talking common sense. The world by far is a majority of free enterprises, so why should it surprise you that money rules? If you have the money, and others want the money, they will do what you want them to do, even if it might be against their best interest. Even if someone says no, there will be someone standing behind them ready to step up and take on the deed. [/quote] No I'm not saying the FM's/Illumanati (though does the Illumanati anymore?) dont exist, my grandpa was a FM, one of my good friends is one, what I am saying is you read too many Dan Brown Novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1343406521' post='1141122'] No I'm not saying the FM's/Illumanati dont exist, my grandpa was one, one of my good friends is one, what I am saying is you read too many Dan Brown Novels. [/quote] So it's just convenience that Free Masons are generally the most impactful people in the community and usually hold some place of power? It's just a coincidence that 15 Presidents were Freemasons? Look at the list of freemasons and tell me there isn't a connection to power and status: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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