Jamie_B Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1343932433' post='1142544'] It doesn't. Neither does supporting a company that has the same belief system as you do... They're no different from one another. Each is outwardly supporting their own belief system. Do you think the GLBT community would be satisfied to be allowed civil unions, which would extend all the legal comforts they desire? [/quote] If they were only supporting the same belief system it wouldnt be an issue, as I said I dont care if people want to be bigots, what I care about is when people start infringing upon the freedoms of other citizens. You dont think that calling them civil unions while saying straight people are married is demeaning to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1343932914' post='1142549'] If they were only supporting the same belief system it wouldnt be an issue, as I said I dont care if people want to be bigots, what I care about is when people start infringing upon the freedoms of other citizens. You dont think that calling them civil unions while saying straight people are married is demeaning to it? [/quote] Ok. I don't think it being a civil union is demeaning... but you didn't answer my question. In my humble opinion, I believe the GLBT community is doing nothing more than at the religious folks. But that is fine. This is just another topic that will get debated round and round ad nauseum and neither is going to acquiesce to the others point. My opinion being... I applaud the company for standing by its convictions, especially in the face of scrutiny. I have the same philosophical views on it as Truett Cathy does. You can call me whatever you'd like - that is fine. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1343933358' post='1142551'] Ok. I don't think it being a civil union is demeaning... but you didn't answer my question. In my humble opinion, I believe the GLBT community is doing nothing more than at the religious folks. But that is fine. This is just another topic that will get debated round and round ad nauseum and neither is going to acquiesce to the others point. My opinion being... I applaud the company for standing by its convictions, especially in the face of scrutiny. I have the same philosophical views on it as Truett Cathy does. You can call me whatever you'd like - that is fine. That is all. [/quote] and I am of the opinion that many are misinterpreting biblical references to say something it does not say Whether that makes them a Bigot or Misguided depends on the individual I guess. But in a country where the rights of ALL it's citizens should be protected, and for folks to say this is a freedom of speech thing at the same time supporting the subversion of freedoms of others simply makes them hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I think that Chik-Fil-A has the right to operate it's business the way it wants, so long as it is within the law. And I think folks that disagree with the way they do business have the right to not eat there and even to boycott them if they feel so worked up about it. I also think that municipalities and other entities have the right to not grant business licenses to companies they do not want doing business in their lawful jurisdictions. So what's the big deal here? Mostly it is the aggressiveness of the gay lobby doing what it does best--agitate. And I'm emphasizing the lobby aspect here. A tightly organized and mission-oriented special interest group is pushing for the policies it desires. I don't see where anyone's rights have been infringed, even if I do find about 90% of this hubbub to be a distasteful farce. Disclaimer: I've never had a CFA sandwich and quite probably never will--not for political reasons but because if I'm spending $4 for a sandwich, there better be a goddamned cow involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1343937066' post='1142566'] I think that Chik-Fil-A has the right to operate it's business the way it wants, so long as it is within the law. And I think folks that disagree with the way they do business have the right to not eat there and even to boycott them if they feel so worked up about it. I also think that municipalities and other entities have the right to not grant business licenses to companies they do not want doing business in their lawful jurisdictions. So what's the big deal here? Mostly it is the aggressiveness of the gay lobby doing what it does best--agitate. And I'm emphasizing the lobby aspect here. A tightly organized and mission-oriented special interest group is pushing for the policies it desires. I don't see where anyone's rights have been infringed, even if I do find about 90% of this hubbub to be a distasteful farce. Disclaimer: I've never had a CFA sandwich and quite probably never will--not for political reasons but because if I'm spending $4 for a sandwich, there better be a goddamned cow involved. [/quote] I agree with this right up until we start talking about CFA using its money to lobby against the rights of LGBT people to get married as much as any one else, that's when peoples rights are being infringed upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1343937066' post='1142566'] I think that Chik-Fil-A has the right to operate it's business the way it wants, so long as it is within the law. And I think folks that disagree with the way they do business have the right to not eat there and even to boycott them if they feel so worked up about it. I also think that municipalities and other entities have the right to not grant business licenses to companies they do not want doing business in their lawful jurisdictions. So what's the big deal here? Mostly it is the aggressiveness of the gay lobby doing what it does best--agitate. And I'm emphasizing the lobby aspect here. A tightly organized and mission-oriented special interest group is pushing for the policies it desires. I don't see where anyone's rights have been infringed, even if I do find about 90% of this hubbub to be a distasteful farce. Disclaimer: I've never had a CFA sandwich and quite probably never will--not for political reasons but because if I'm spending $4 for a sandwich, there better be a goddamned cow involved. [/quote] your so right... 4 dollars is too much for a chicken sandwich... oh yeah, and agreed all the other stuff too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [img]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24328493.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1343937066' post='1142566'] I think that Chik-Fil-A has the right to operate it's business the way it wants, so long as it is within the law. And I think folks that disagree with the way they do business have the right to not eat there and even to boycott them if they feel so worked up about it. I also think that municipalities and other entities have the right to not grant business licenses to companies they do not want doing business in their lawful jurisdictions. So what's the big deal here? Mostly it is the aggressiveness of the gay lobby doing what it does best--agitate. And I'm emphasizing the lobby aspect here. A tightly organized and mission-oriented special interest group is pushing for the policies it desires. I don't see where anyone's rights have been infringed, [s]even if I do find about 90% of this hubbub to be a distasteful farce.[/s] Disclaimer: I've never had a CFA sandwich and quite probably never will--not for political reasons but because if I'm spending $4 for a sandwich, there better be a goddamned cow involved. [/quote] +1... While I think the mayors of those cities are wrong to do what they're attempting to... that would be up to those cities' voters to determine, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1343937739' post='1142573'] I agree with this right up until we start talking about CFA using its money to lobby against the rights of LGBT people to get married as much as any one else, that's when peoples rights are being infringed upon. [/quote] I don't think of this as an infringement, Jamie. By that logic, wouldn't the political activity of lobbyists for gay marriage be infringing on the rights of folks who don't think that is good policy? Rights are tricky and often, double-edged. Need to be very careful distinguishing between human rights, civil rights, and other forms of positive law. [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1343937772' post='1142575'] your so right... 4 dollars is too much for a chicken sandwich... oh yeah, and agreed all the other stuff too. [/quote] Hi, BR. Read any good books lately? Hope you are doing well. [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1343938215' post='1142579'] +1... While I think the mayors of those cities are wrong to do what they're attempting to... that would be up to those cities' voters to determine, not me. [/quote] Insofar as the mayors are basically hamming it up for their constituents, the voters will eventually get to decide. Not to mention other folks who influence zoning laws, economic development, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1343939374' post='1142592'] I don't think of this as an infringement, Jamie. By that logic, [color=#ff0000]wouldn't the political activity of lobbyists for gay marriage be infringing on the rights of folks who don't think that is good policy[/color]? Rights are tricky and often, double-edged. Need to be very careful distinguishing between human rights, civil rights, and other forms of positive law. [/quote] How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1343939374' post='1142592'] Hi, BR. Read any good books lately? Hope you are doing well. [/quote] Absolutely. Although my wife makes fun of me all the time because I say I read them, but I rarely actually read anything, just listen. Thanks for the suggestion on [font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]Stephen Pressfield. Found all his books as audio books and been going through them... They can be pretty deep though, i had to read/listen to Gates of Fire twice to really let it resonate. I think I'm ready for my test of Greek history though [/color][/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 What I don't understand is this... Why the fuck does anyone care if someone wants to boycott someone else's product? No one is forcing you to boycott Chik-fil-A. If people don't agree with the policies or politics of a business, it is completely within their right to choose not to give that business their money. Seriously.. Can just one of you who is upset about people boycotting Chikl-fil-A explain what you are complaining about here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Bartledoo' timestamp='1343844941' post='1142238'] This whole Chick-Fil-A thing is freaking ridiculous. How am I expected to be tolerant of the gays when they won't even let me enjoy a chicken sammich in peace? Equality for all! [/quote] Equality for all means they can boycott a company that they believe is against their position. Free speech is legal even when it is retaliation for other free speech. You can say what you want, but that doesn't mean the populace cannot develop and espouse an opposing view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1343940156' post='1142597'] How so? [/quote] Your claim is that lobbying against/to overturn a positive law is an infringement of rights. Am I correct here? Or do you think that gay marriage is a human right? (And if you do, then there is a whole other set of considerations, especially with the notion that marriage, itself, somehow rises above conventional law. I claim that lobbying against/to overturn a positive law is not about infringing a political right. It is about debating the establishment of just what the character of our positive law/civil rights/political rights are to be. So, I view the exercise of political rights (the right to petition) as not an infringement of the rights of others, but in fact as a permissible and very important part of the fabric of our tradition in law, including our constitutional foundation. Doesn't matter whether we agree with the object of the exercise of those rights. Except, I guess, that it does suggest that if we do disagree with the object of such "petitioning" then we ought to be very careful to make sure that all legalities are observed even for those with whom we disagree. This is the anti-cowboy justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1343941163' post='1142605'] Absolutely. Although my wife makes fun of me all the time because I say I read them, but I rarely actually read anything, just listen. Thanks for the suggestion on [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]Stephen Pressfield. Found all his books as audio books and been going through them... They can be pretty deep though, i had to read/listen to Gates of Fire twice to really let it resonate. I think I'm ready for my test of Greek history though [/color][/font] [/quote] Okay! Glad to hear all is well. If you want to read another excellent book that takes place more or less in the same milieu, consider Gore Vidal's "Creation." Sad that he passed, another curmudgeon bites the dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1343945421' post='1142616'] Your claim is that lobbying against/to overturn a positive law is an infringement of rights. Am I correct here? Or do you think that gay marriage is a human right? (And if you do, then there is a whole other set of considerations, especially with the notion that marriage, itself, somehow rises above conventional law. I claim that lobbying against/to overturn a positive law is not about infringing a political right. It is about debating the establishment of just what the character of our positive law/civil rights/political rights are to be. So, I view the exercise of political rights (the right to petition) as not an infringement of the rights of others, but in fact as a permissible and very important part of the fabric of our tradition in law, including our constitutional foundation. Doesn't matter whether we agree with the object of the exercise of those rights. Except, I guess, that it does suggest that if we do disagree with the object of such "petitioning" then we ought to be very careful to make sure that all legalities are observed even for those with whom we disagree. This is the anti-cowboy justice. [/quote] Of course.. And if you petition, and run a business, it's equally fair for those representing the opposing view, to boycott that business so as to not give thier money to someone who is going to use it to petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1343945663' post='1142618'] Of course.. And if you petition, and run a business, it's equally fair for those representing the opposing view, to boycott that business so as to not give thier money to someone who is going to use it to petition. [/quote] Absolutely. I refuse to spend money with some companies because I disagree with their politics/behavior. Conversely, even though it is kind of a stunt, all the folks who visited CFA yesterday as a sign of support falls within the same guidelines of consumer economic power as political power. Personally, I see all this as more or less peripheral to the fact that we are creeping closer to the next major fall off the cliff which is the world economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I could be wrong, but I think that has been what Jamie has been trying to point out.. This guy is politically active, and so it's the right of his potential customers to boycott his product. Frankly I don't understand the uproar about the boycott.. Seems kind of silly. The christian right has a whole list of businesses who they boycott which is far more extensive and well organized than this... But you don't really hear much about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='BengalBacker' timestamp='1343932000' post='1142539'] Any way the wind blows. Also, where was the outrage after his 2008 clip? Hypocrites. [/quote] [quote name='BengalBacker' timestamp='1343932000' post='1142539'] Any way the wind blows. Also, where was the outrage after his 2008 clip? Hypocrites. [/quote] I dont see him donating money to hate groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1343947432' post='1142629'] I could be wrong, but I think that has been what Jamie has been trying to point out.. This guy is politically active, and so it's the right of his potential customers to boycott his product. Frankly I don't understand the uproar about the boycott.. Seems kind of silly. The christian right has a whole list of businesses who they boycott which is far more extensive and well organized than this... But you don't really hear much about that. [/quote] I wonder how many of those people buying their sandwhiches yesterday were boycotting and breaking dixy chick cds when that whole thing went down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Do people that think Gays should be allowed to marry also think Polygamists should be allowed to marry and have as many Husbands or Wives as they wish? If not why? What's the difference? And where is the line that you draw? And wouldn't any line drawn also be [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]infringing on peoples rights?[/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 [quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1343963415' post='1142679'] Do people that think Gays should be allowed to marry also think Polygamists should be allowed to marry and have as many Husbands or Wives as they wish? If not why? What's the difference? And where is the line that you draw? And wouldn't any line drawn also be [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]infringing on peoples rights?[/font][/color] [/quote] Thats a really good point. Why is it that you can't marry more then one person? I think that makes alot of sense. It makes no sense whatsoever to not allow two men or two women marry. As long as all people are consenting and of age that sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I can't think of a problem with polygamy as long as no one's rights are getting violated.. Also, if polygamists got all pissed off and wanted to boycott HBO because of "Big Love" I don't see why anyone should be upset over that.. Many of the posts here are expressing just that.. Anger or irritation at someone exercising their right to spend their money where they wish. It's pretty stupid actually. , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 [quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1343963415' post='1142679'] Do people that think Gays should be allowed to marry also think Polygamists should be allowed to marry and have as many Husbands or Wives as they wish? If not why? What's the difference? And where is the line that you draw? And wouldn't any line drawn also be [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]infringing on peoples rights?[/font][/color] [/quote] Valid point (and +1 from me). The "line" is drawn at whether or not they are consenting adults. You're 18 or over and want to suck cock\labia\multiple cocks\multiple labia and be granted the same protections under the law as hetero couples and get screwed on your taxes like everyone else? Knock yourself out...[quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1343964365' post='1142684'] I can't think of a problem with polygamy as long as no one's rights are getting violated.. Also, if polygamists got all pissed off and wanted to boycott HBO because of "Big Love" I don;t see why anyone should be upset over that.. Many of the posts here are expressing just that.. Anger or irritation at someone exorcising their right to "vote with their money". It's pretty stupid actually. , [/quote] And this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1343947432' post='1142629'] I could be wrong, but I think that has been what Jamie has been trying to point out.. This guy is politically active, and so it's the right of his potential customers to boycott his product. Frankly I don't understand the uproar about the boycott.. Seems kind of silly. The christian right has a whole list of businesses who they boycott which is far more extensive and well organized than this... But you don't really hear much about that. [/quote] The thing that really frustrates me is that the gay community has to be hurt by this so much. The point may have been simply to protest the boycotts and support freedom of speech. But what it has to seem like to someone in that community is that people are so mean spirited and so full of hate and so against who you are that they will line up at a shitty chicken restaurant against you. Its straight privilege. Coming out is one of the most difficult things to do and now we have these people who are just rubbing their face in it. Not thinking once about the kids who commit suicide because they are gay and bullied, not thinking once about how it might be if it was illegal for them to get married. Protesting against others having the same rights you have is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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