Romney/Ryan

[Orange 'n Black]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/03/opinion/avlon-politics-empty-chair/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

This "Politics of the Empty Chair" article hits the point I'm trying to make right on the head. Each campaign selectively acknowledges any fact that supports is position and ignores/lampoons ones that make it lose its luster. Fact: Obamacare cuts $716bn from Medicare. Fact: The $716bn is in the form of excess and waste, not benefits.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Orange 'n Black' timestamp='1346712620' post='1154182']
[url="http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/03/opinion/avlon-politics-empty-chair/index.html?hpt=hp_c1"]http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_c1[/url]

This "Politics of the Empty Chair" article hits the point I'm trying to make right on the head. Each campaign selectively acknowledges any fact that supports is position and ignores/lampoons ones that make it lose its luster. [b]Fact: Obamacare cuts $716bn from Medicare[/b]. Fact: The $716bn is in the form of excess and waste, not benefits.
[/quote]

No not a fact.. "Limiting growth over the next 10 years" absolutely means something different than "cutting medicare" and there is absolutely no backing for the claim that this comes "at the expense of the elderly". Why try and pretend you don't understand the difference?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1346713164' post='1154185']
[color=#ff0000]No not a fact.. "Limiting growth over the next 10 years" absolutely means something different than "cutting medicare"[/color] and there is absolutely no backing for the claim that this comes "at the expense of the elderly". Why try and pretend you don't understand the difference?
[/quote]

winner winner chicken dinner

[Orange 'n Black]

[quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1346713164' post='1154185']


No not a fact.. "Limiting growth over the next 10 years" absolutely means something different than "cutting medicare" and there is absolutely no backing for the claim that this comes "at the expense of the elderly". Why try and pretend you don't understand the difference?
[/quote]

I do understand the difference, you're more interested in spouting off than understanding my point. It's factually correct that there is a reduction in Medicare spending of $716bn. The Romney campaign spins this as a cut, which is dishonest but rooted in fact.

Understand that I don't support this move or any of this political maneuvering by either side. The context of a fact check as the argument was presented is not the way to debunk the issue.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Orange 'n Black' timestamp='1346768542' post='1154280']
I do understand the difference, you're more interested in spouting off than understanding my point. It's factually correct that there is a reduction in Medicare spending of $716bn. The Romney campaign spins this as a cut, which is dishonest but rooted in fact.

Understand that I don't support this move or any of this political maneuvering by either side. The context of a fact check as the argument was presented is not the way to debunk the issue.
[/quote]

Now were just arguing semantics.

[sois]

Lucid is winner of this semantics battle.

There is a big difference from taking a pay cut and not getting a raise.

Saying "cutting medicare" is not honest.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1346773031' post='1154290']
Lucid is winner of this semantics battle.

[color=#ff0000]There is a big difference from taking a pay cut and not getting a raise. [/color]

Saying "cutting medicare" is not honest.
[/quote]


yep

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Orange 'n Black' timestamp='1346768542' post='1154280']
I do understand the difference, you're more interested in spouting off than understanding my point. It's factually correct that there is a reduction in Medicare spending of $716bn. The Romney campaign spins this as a cut, which is dishonest but rooted in fact.

Understand that I don't support this move or any of this political maneuvering by either side. The context of a fact check as the argument was presented is not the way to debunk the issue.
[/quote]

No.. It's not that I don't understand your point, I am interested in pointing out that your point is wrong. Saving money over the next few years is absolutely different than "cutting funding". For example, if I am buying a widget which the manufacturer will be marking up 100% next year, and I find a manufacturer who produces the same widget without the increase in cost, I have saved 50% on my budget for widgets over the next year. Presenting savings as a budget cut is dishonest.

[oldschooler]

[size=6][b]Putin Thanks Romney for Calling Russia No. 1 Foe[/b][/size]


MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin said today that Mitt Romney’s characterization of Moscow as the United States’ “number one geopolitical foe” has actually helped Russia.

The Russian leader said Romney’s comments strengthened his resolve to oppose NATO’s plan for a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe, a system Russia believes will degrade its nuclear deterrent. The U.S. insists the system is aimed at Iran, not Russia.

“I’m grateful to him (Romney) for formulating his stance so clearly because he has once again proven the correctness of our approach to missile defense problems,” Putin told reporters, according to the Russian news agency RIA Novosti.

“The most important thing for us is that even if he doesn’t win now, he or a person with similar views may come to power in four years. We must take that into consideration while dealing with security issues for a long perspective,” he said, speaking after a meeting with Serbian President Tomislav Nikolic, according to Interfax news agency.

Putin also waded into the U.S. election in an interview last week with state-controlled Russia Today television. Putin called President Obama “a very honest man” and said after their meeting at the G20 in Los Cabos, Mexico, he believed he could strike a missile defense deal with him, saying Obama’s willingness to deal appeared “quite sincere.”

Obama caused some controversy when he was caught on an open microphone at a summit in South Korea in March telling then-Russian President Dmitri Medvedev he would have more room to negotiate missile defense after the November presidential election.

During the same interview with Russia Today last week, Putin said he could work with Romney, but also expressed concerns about the GOP nominee, or someone with similar views, taking over the reins of the missile defense shield.

“In that case, the system will definitely be directed at Russia,” he said, according to a transcript posted on Putin’s official website.

After Romney’s “geopolitical foe” comment last spring, Medvedev chided him for being stuck in the 1970s.




http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/putin-thanks-romney-for-calling-russia-no-1-foe/

[oldschooler]

[url="https://twitter.com/HuffingtonPost"][b]Huffington Post[/b]‏[s]@[/s][b]HuffingtonPost[/b][/url]
Romney in secret video: 'Palestinians have no interest whatsoever in establishing peace' [url="http://t.co/ecImCGGQ"]http://huff.to/S28A9G[/url]




[b] SECRET VIDEO: Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Voters[/b]

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/secret-video-romney-private-fundraiser

[Jamie_B]

Stick a fork in him.

[sois]

he said what we are all thinking

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1347980296' post='1159818']
he said what [s]we[/s] right wing nut jobs are all thinking
[/quote]

fixed

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1347980296' post='1159818']
he said what we are all thinking
[/quote]

You mean what all of the uneducated people are thinking?

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1347979477' post='1159814']
Stick a fork in him.
[/quote]

He sure is a cold-hearted asshole, but remember that Americans elected Nixon.

Twice.

This race is far from over...

[sois]

I'm not a fan of poor people. I will vote for Romny now.

[Jamie_B]

[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/brooks-thurston-howell-romney.html?_r=0"]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/brooks-thurston-howell-romney.html?_r=0[/url]

[quote]

[b] Thurston Howell Romney[/b]


[color=#000000][font=georgia,]In 1980, about 30 percent of Americans received some form of government benefits. Today, as Nicholas Eberstadt of the American Enterprise Institute has pointed out, about 49 percent do.[/font][/color]

[size=4][color=#000000]In 1960, government transfers to individuals totaled $24 billion. By 2010, that total was 100 times as large. Even after adjusting for inflation, entitlement transfers to individuals have grown by more than 700 percent over the last 50 years. This spending surge, Eberstadt notes, has increased faster under Republican administrations than Democratic ones.[/color]
[color=#000000]There are sensible conclusions to be drawn from these facts. You could say that the entitlement state is growing at an unsustainable rate and will bankrupt the country. You could also say that America is spending way too much on health care for the elderly and way too little on young families and investments in the future.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]But these are not the sensible arguments that Mitt Romney made at a fund-raiser earlier this year. Romney, who criticizes President Obama for dividing the nation, divided the nation into two groups: the makers and the moochers. Forty-seven percent of the country, he said, are people “who are dependent upon government, who believe they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to take care of them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it.”[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]This comment suggests a few things. First, it suggests that he really doesn’t know much about the country he inhabits. Who are these freeloaders? Is it the Iraq war veteran who goes to the V.A.? Is it the student getting a loan to go to college? Is it the retiree on Social Security or Medicare?[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]It suggests that Romney doesn’t know much about the culture of America. Yes, the entitlement state has expanded, but America remains one of the hardest-working nations on earth. Americans work longer hours than just about anyone else. Americans believe in work more than almost any other people. Ninety-two percent say that hard work is the key to success, according to a 2009 Pew Research Survey.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]It says that Romney doesn’t know much about the political culture. Americans haven’t become childlike worshipers of big government. On the contrary, trust in government has declined. The number of people who think government spending promotes social mobility has fallen.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]The people who receive the disproportionate share of government spending are not big-government lovers. They are Republicans. They are senior citizens. They are white men with high school degrees. As Bill Galston of the Brookings Institution has noted, the people who have benefited from the entitlements explosion are middle-class workers, more so than the dependent poor.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]Romney’s comments also reveal that he has lost any sense of the social compact. In 1987, during Ronald Reagan’s second term, 62 percent of Republicans believed that the government has a responsibility to help those who can’t help themselves. Now, according to the Pew Research Center, only 40 percent of Republicans believe that.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]The Republican Party, and apparently Mitt Romney, too, has shifted over toward a much more hyperindividualistic and atomistic social view — from the Reaganesque language of common citizenship to the libertarian language of makers and takers. There’s no way the country will trust the Republican Party to reform the welfare state if that party doesn’t have a basic commitment to provide a safety net for those who suffer for no fault of their own.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]The final thing the comment suggests is that Romney knows nothing about ambition and motivation. The formula he sketches is this: People who are forced to make it on their own have drive. People who receive benefits have dependency.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]But, of course, no middle-class parent acts as if this is true. Middle-class parents don’t deprive their children of benefits so they can learn to struggle on their own. They shower benefits on their children to give them more opportunities — so they can play travel sports, go on foreign trips and develop more skills.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]People are motivated when they feel competent. They are motivated when they have more opportunities. Ambition is fired by possibility, not by deprivation, as a tour through the world’s poorest regions makes clear.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]Sure, there are some government programs that cultivate patterns of dependency in some people. I’d put federal disability payments and unemployment insurance in this category. But, as a description of America today, Romney’s comment is a country-club fantasy. It’s what self-satisfied millionaires say to each other. It reinforces every negative view people have about Romney.[/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000]Personally, I think he’s a kind, decent man who says stupid things because he is pretending to be something he is not — some sort of cartoonish government-hater. But it scarcely matters. He’s running a depressingly inept presidential campaign. Mr. Romney, your entitlement reform ideas are essential, but when will the incompetence stop?[/color][/size]

[/quote]

[oldschooler]

[b] [size=6]Clint Eastwood On RNC Speech: 'An Oddball Thing,' 'If Someone's Dumb Enough To Ask Me...'[/size][/b]


Though his performance at the Republican National Convention has been widely panned by critics and pundits, Clint Eastwood's post-speech interviews have been refreshingly candid and highly entertaining.

In the much-ballyhooed speech, Eastwood conducted an extended dialogue with an empty chair, in which he pretended sat Barack Obama.

"If somebody's dumb enough to ask me to go to a political convention and say something, they're gonna have to take what they get," Eastwood said on "Extra" ([url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/post/quoted-clint-eastwood-explains-some-more-about-tampa/2012/09/18/b55a7a3c-0145-11e2-b257-e1c2b3548a4a_blog.html"]via [i]The Washington Post[/i][/url]).

But he didn't stop there. In an appearance on "Ellen" (where he put his feet on Ellen's table), the actor [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mIC8Nw7LqI"]said he doesn't really care what people thought of the event[/url]. "The Democrats who were watching thought I was going senile, and the Republicans knew I was." He summed up the event thusly: "I was just trying to have some fun."

Eastwood also [url="http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/eastwood_chalks_up_tone_of_rnc_speech_VRbjdXUykGRMbMXmmUiBzO?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=National"]described the idea to use a chair as "an oddball thing" on "Good Morning America."[/url]

But it turns out the "Trouble With the Curve" actor's speech wasn't just fodder for late-night comics. In [url="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81280.html"]a scathing Politico report on the state of the Romney campaign[/url], "Eastwood's meandering monologue to an empty chair" is cited as a prime example of campaign strategist Stuart Stevens' inability to effectively promote his party's candidate for president. Polls have since found that the actor's speech overshadowed Romney's for the convention's most memorable moment.

Eastwood doesn't seem to be too upset by the ensuing coverage. “I didn’t try to upstage anybody," he told "Good Morning America." "You're supposed to love it or hate it. I'm just expressing my feelings."




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/18/clint-eastwood-rnc-speech-oddball-stupid_n_1894532.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003