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After Week 1--Impression of Replacement Refs


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Honestly, I don't see a whole hell of a lot difference. I here teams complaining about calls and non-calls, but none of them were any different than we've seen from the real guys. One thing I actually like is the way they are calling holding, neutral zone infractions ( lining up offsides), delay of game ( Peyton didn't get his customary extra second), and not letting OT's "cheat" by lining up more than a yard off the LOS or get the extra few milliseconds before the snap.

Here's an NFL.com link about Aaron Rodgers complaints;
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000061357/article/aaron-rodgers-replacement-referees-were-frustrating?module=HP11_headline_stack

Rodgers griping about how screwy the rule book is interpreted? Has he ever played in a game chiefed by Mike Carey?

A big deal is being made about the non-call on the punt return by GB, but we know the real guys miss the obvious, too--witness the PR TD in the Pitt game last year--he wasn't even buried in the congestion--it was all alone for everyone (except the ref) to see.

Bottom line--I've seen the real guys with years of experience make the same stupid calls and non-calls. I can't say a single crew genuinely infuenced the outcome of any of last weeks games. If nobody had let us in on the fact that they are replacements, never would have noticed.
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That Anquan Boldin TD the second one I think it was on a replay from my couch I saw that shit hit the ground and these fools said the call stands and it is a TD! Not that it makes a difference now but it would of then.
Either way I think we lose that game just maybe not by that big of a margin. And that one catch by AJ I think Marvins dumb ass should of challenged it. I really am starting to believe that Marvin Lewis is a DUMB ASS.
He has no effin clue on when to challenge and when not to. When to go for it on 4th down and when not to. If we don't break .500 this season I want that dude the fuck out of here. I don't care about his contract extension
or anything. Either make Gruden the H.C. or get us some young blood to be the H.C. here. Also if Andy has a shitty season I'd say fuck it and go ahead and draft another QB. The NFL type with the size and laser rocket arm.
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[quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' timestamp='1347474961' post='1157713']
That Anquan Boldin TD the second one I think it was on a replay from my couch I saw that shit hit the ground and these fools said the call stands and it is a TD! Not that it makes a difference now but it would of then.
Either way I think we lose that game just maybe not by that big of a margin. And that one catch by AJ I think Marvins dumb ass should of challenged it. I really am starting to believe that Marvin Lewis is a DUMB ASS.
He has no effin clue on when to challenge and when not to. When to go for it on 4th down and when not to. If we don't break .500 this season I want that dude the fuck out of here. I don't care about his contract extension
or anything. Either make Gruden the H.C. or get us some young blood to be the H.C. here. Also if Andy has a shitty season I'd say fuck it and go ahead and draft another QB. The NFL type with the size and laser rocket arm.
[/quote]

[color=#333333][font=Arial, sans-serif][background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]
[url="https://twitter.com/CBSBengals"][b]Bengals RapidReports[/b] ‏[size=3][s]@[/s][b]CBSBengals[/b][/size][/url][/background][/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Arial, sans-serif][background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]
Marvin Lewis said he didn't challenge AJ Green catch near the 20 because he believes it wasn't one.[/background][/font][/color]


[url="https://twitter.com/CBSBengals"][b]Bengals RapidReports[/b] ‏[size=3][s]@[/s][b]CBSBengals[/b][/size][/url]
Lewis on no-challenge: “Letter of rule is that if you go to the ground, you must possess the football. He never completed a football act."
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[quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' timestamp='1347474961' post='1157713']
That Anquan Boldin TD the second one I think it was on a replay from my couch I saw that shit hit the ground and these fools said the call stands and it is a TD! Not that it makes a difference now but it would of then.
Either way I think we lose that game just maybe not by that big of a margin. And that one catch by AJ I think Marvins dumb ass should of challenged it. I really am starting to believe that Marvin Lewis is a DUMB ASS.
He has no effin clue on when to challenge and when not to. When to go for it on 4th down and when not to. If we don't break .500 this season I want that dude the fuck out of here. I don't care about his contract extension
or anything. Either make Gruden the H.C. or get us some young blood to be the H.C. here. Also if Andy has a shitty season I'd say fuck it and go ahead and draft another QB. The NFL type with the size and laser rocket arm.
[/quote]

For what it's worth, the replay officials are the same this year as last. They are league employees but not members of the officials union so they're not locked out.
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[quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1347478362' post='1157739']
For what it's worth, the replay officials are the same this year as last. They are league employees but not members of the officials union so they're not locked out.
[/quote]

yep. Replay officials aren't part of the referees union, so the usual guys are up in the booth.

















[img]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1357349/bengals1.gif[/img]
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[quote name='BengalsRZ' timestamp='1347478632' post='1157741']
how the FUCK is that not a catch. i see two, maybe three steps.

the worst part is that after a ridiculous call like that, boldin's clear drop is called a TD. terrible calls, both of them.
[/quote]


as I understand the rule, they got the Green catch right, the Bolden catch wrong.


Even if you get two feet down, you have to make a football move before getting hit by the defender. If you go to the ground from a hit and drop the ball on the way down without making a football move first, it constitutes an incompletion.


Don't necessarily agree with it, but in that case I think it was called right.
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[quote][color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]This is the official rule on receptions in the NFL:[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]"If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

[url="http://football.about.com/od/frequentlyaskedquestions/a/What-Is-A-Reception.htm"]http://football.about.com/od/frequentlyaskedquestions/a/What-Is-A-Reception.htm[/url]
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347478543' post='1157740']
[img]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1357349/bengals1.gif[/img]
[/quote]
[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347479336' post='1157751']
[color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]This is the official rule on receptions in the NFL:[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]"If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."[/size][/font][/color]
[url="http://football.about.com/od/frequentlyaskedquestions/a/What-Is-A-Reception.htm"]http://football.abou...A-Reception.htm[/url]
[/quote]

If the receiver goes down in the act of catching the ball, yes. He caught the ball, landed and started to run, was hit in the back and went down. The ball was caught, and as he turns to look downfield, his third foot hit the ground, and then the right knee constituted the fourth limb contacting the ground. As he gets hit, he even tucks the ball into his right elbow as he tries to brace his fall with the other hand. After the knee touches down, the elbow of the arm which had tucked the ball away hits the ground and the ball comes loose.

Don't justify the call. Look at it for what it is. Sometimes we see a clear catch but on technicality, they call it incomplete. In this case, even on technicality, it is a clear catch. Its unfortunate that 'officials' make leaps in thought and instead of judging if the ball is caught, they get caught up in the technicalities FIRST. And its unfortunate Marvin Lewis is a dumbass in in-game decision making, and then a justifier of the bad decision after the game.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347478920' post='1157744']
as I understand the rule, they got the Green catch right, the Bolden catch wrong.


Even if you get two feet down, you have to make a football move before getting hit by the defender. If you go to the ground from a hit and drop the ball on the way down without making a football move first, it constitutes an incompletion.


Don't necessarily agree with it, but in that case I think it was called right.
[/quote]

What differentiates Green's case from Boldin's case is that Green was not in the process of making the catch when he went to the ground. He already caught the ball and made a "football move" which in this case was 3 steps. Boldin caught the ball and went to the ground without making any such move. Green's was undoubtedly a catch.
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[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1347481110' post='1157760']
If the receiver goes down in the act of catching the ball, yes. He caught the ball, landed and started to run, was hit in the back and went down. The ball was caught, and as he turns to look downfield, his third foot hit the ground, and then the right knee constituted the fourth limb contacting the ground. As he gets hit, he even tucks the ball into his right elbow as he tries to brace his fall with the other hand. After the knee touches down, the elbow of the arm which had tucked the ball away hits the ground and the ball comes loose.

Don't justify the call. Look at it for what it is. Sometimes we see a clear catch but on technicality, they call it incomplete. In this case, even on technicality, it is a clear catch. Its unfortunate that 'officials' make leaps in thought and instead of judging if the ball is caught, they get caught up in the technicalities FIRST. And its unfortunate Marvin Lewis is a dumbass in in-game decision making, and then a justifier of the bad decision after the game.
[/quote]


you seriously think a member of the rules committee doesn't understand the rules?


It has nothing to do with me justifying anything. Merely interpreting the rule as we've heard it a hundred times. "You have to make a football move" to complete the catch prior to the hit.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347482324' post='1157769']
you seriously think a member of the rules committee doesn't understand the rules?


It has nothing to do with me justifying anything. Merely interpreting the rule as we've heard it a hundred times. "You have to make a football move" to complete the catch prior to the hit.
[/quote]

So what you're saying is that there doesn't stand a possibility that Marvin could have been wrong? He DID make a football move...hell he made two of them. The first one was taking 3 steps to advance the ball.....football move. The other one was taking the ball from two hands to only one in order to tuck after being hit. That's TWO football moves although I'm not sure the last one would qualify but he definitely made a football move. AJ caught that ball. Blown call.
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[quote name='IKOTA' timestamp='1347482606' post='1157772']
So what you're saying is that there doesn't stand a possibility that Marvin could have been wrong? He DID make a football move...hell he made two of them. The first one was taking 3 steps to advance the ball.....football move. The other one was taking the ball from two hands to only one in order to tuck after being hit. That's TWO football moves although I'm not sure the last one would qualify but he definitely made a football move. AJ caught that ball. Blown call.
[/quote]

what I think, is that I hate the subjectivity of the "football move" rule. :lol:

As I've generally seen it applied, refs usually count a "football move" as a turn of the body upfield. It's something they definitely haven't been consistent with though, which leads to moments like this.

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347482324' post='1157769']
you seriously think a member of the rules committee doesn't understand the rules?

It has nothing to do with me justifying anything. Merely interpreting the rule as we've heard it a hundred times. "You have to make a football move" to complete the catch prior to the hit.
[/quote]

Regarding the rules committee, reread what I said in my last post about it being unfortunate that officials are getting lost in trying to adhere to technicalities instead of aiming to determine completions. If the aim is to figure out if it is a catch, then the technical aspects allow the accomplishment of the aim. When the technicalities are the aim, then the technicalities become vague and seen on a spectrum and errors are easy to make. The rules committee members now reviewing that play will think the call was blown for a second, as true and initial instinct, then will talk themselves into justifying the call. That is what you did. And that is what Marvin Lewis did.

You think this is the first error that the officials have made and upheld? Don't give me the "the officials are smarter than you" bit.

Sorry. Regardless of who won this game, the Boldin play was NOT a catch and the Green play WAS a catch. The truth is the truth, whether accepted by the masses or just by one lone individual. It is disturbing that even with replay, there is such a vague situation on what the call with be.
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[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1347483171' post='1157777']
Regarding the rules committee, reread what I said in my last post about it being unfortunate that officials are getting lost in trying to adhere to technicalities instead of aiming to determine completions. If the aim is to figure out if it is a catch, then the technical aspects allow the accomplishment of the aim. When the technicalities are the aim, then the technicalities become vague and seen on a spectrum and errors are easy to make. The rules committee members now reviewing that play will think the call was blown for a second, as true and initial instinct, then will talk themselves into justifying the call. That is what you did. And that is what Marvin Lewis did.

You think this is the first error that the officials have made and upheld? Don't give me the "the officials are smarter than you" bit.

Sorry. Regardless of who won this game, the Boldin play was NOT a catch and the Green play WAS a catch. The truth is the truth, whether accepted by the masses or just by one lone individual. It is disturbing that even with replay, there is such a vague situation on what the call with be.
[/quote]


again, doesn't have anything to do with me "justifying" anything. Merely interpreting the rule as I've seen it interpreted countless times over the years.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Wouldn't be the first time in the last 24 hours here. Just going by how previous calls have been made.

Like I said above, I don't like the rule. But judging how its been called over the years, I see why the decision was made the way it was.


And I'm sorry, where exactly did I use the "the officials are smarter than you" bit?
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347482895' post='1157776']
what I think, is that I hate the subjectivity of the "football move" rule. :lol:

As I've generally seen it applied, refs usually count a "football move" as a turn of the body upfield. It's something they definitely haven't been consistent with though, which leads to moments like this.
[/quote]

Ha.....now that we can agree on!

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347483822' post='1157786']
again, doesn't have anything to do with me "justifying" anything. Merely interpreting the rule as I've seen it interpreted countless times over the years.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Wouldn't be the first time in the last 24 hours here. Just going by how previous calls have been made.

Like I said above, I don't like the rule. But judging how its been called over the years, I see why the decision was made the way it was.


And I'm sorry, where exactly did I use the "the officials are smarter than you" bit?
[/quote]

You never used "the officials are smarter than you" but you did use "you think a member of the rules committee doesn't know the rules?" implying that since he's on the rules committee...it's beyond him to make a mistake or misinterpret what he saw. I would imagine that's why AZ said what he did.
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[quote name='IKOTA' timestamp='1347484417' post='1157789']
You never used "the officials are smarter than you" but you did use "you think a member of the rules committee doesn't know the rules?" implying that since he's on the rules committee...it's beyond him to make a mistake or misinterpret what he saw. I would imagine that's why AZ said what he did.
[/quote]


I certainly don't think its beyond reason that he made a mistake during the game. We've all seen Marvin make in-game mistakes. When he's made glaring ones he's generally owned up to them in the Monday Press Conferences. If two days later he's still saying that Green didn't complete the catch to the letter of the rule, I'm inclined to think its not Marvin just covering his ass. It's also not Marvin's MO to point out players mistakes in the media. If he went back and watched the tape and thought it was a catch, he'd defend Green on it.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347483822' post='1157786']

And I'm sorry, where exactly did I use the "the officials are smarter than you" bit?
[/quote]

Here:

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1347482324' post='1157769']
you seriously think a member of the rules committee doesn't understand the rules?
[/quote]


A receiver should have to come down with the ball, make some sort of a move (football move is not necessarily or exclusively 'turning upfield'). If he is coming down WHILE making the catch, then he has to maintain control through the fall/tackle.

The rule is not bad. You have to define things somehow. The problem comes in when you start splitting hairs on language.

Its a fluid situation and the rule defines it and refers to it as such:

1) If the receiver is coming down while catching it, he has to maintain control even after landing. (This applies in Boldin's TD)

2) If the receiver is not going to the ground during the reception, then he has to DO SOMETHING after he catches it - to show he has possession. In this case, he does NOT have to maintain control during the fall. (This applies to Green's situation)

They ignored the rule altogether in Boldin's case, and in Green's case, they combined both of the above.
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