bengalrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1349737875' post='1168109'] Look at the Gallup poll it's the most recent after the jobs report. Pew was done after the debates. [/quote] Are you really looking at those graphs and coming up with these conclusions? I mean my point was that there was a bump in the polls after the debates... And if you look at what I posted there clearly was. Pretty simple really. I wasn't saying Romney has it in the bag. To the contrary, I was saying Romney has a chance finally. Hey Homer... to me its the whole douche bag vs. shit sandwich... I personally prefer the shit sandwich but that is just my preference... wow that sounds horrible But yeah, neither is a great choice. I just think Obama is horrendous and I'm ready for a change in direction. I wish we had more than just 2 people/parties to choose from but no viable 3rd party is going to rise up in my lifetime (most likely) so I am not willing to throw my vote away... And I would almost definitely never vote for Obama. His views are almost completely different than mine across the board. So that leaves me to either not vote (that won't happen) or vote Romney. Kind of a bad position but it is what it is... I will say this though... My kids wouldn't vote for Romney. They aren't giving up Wild Kratts and Sid the Science Kid easily (For those without kids, you may need to google that one... They aren't fans of Big Bird though so they can do without him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Jamie, also about the jobs reports that came out. I think most people take that with a grain of salt. unemployment went up in the private sector... But the government magically created a crap load of jobs right before the election. Most people can see through that imo... People that are worried about jobs look at their selves and/or their neighbors. What the government tells them is happening is a lagging indicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ohio is almost always a swing state. I know part of that is because the number of middle class citizens that live, and that it is a litmus test for unemployment percentages for the country. With the decline of new factories and businesses in Ohio, the plunge of unemployment numbers, and the rise in the number of foreclosures, I see it going to Romney. Obama made promises last election that he didn't execute, and that will be his downfall. Where are all these new factories making 'Green' products at? Ohio was supposed to be one of the first states on a list to begin creating environmental friends products and services that would create thousands and thousands of stable jobs for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1349744130' post='1168142'] Hey Homer... to me its the whole [b]douche bag vs. shit sandwich[/b]... I personally prefer the shit sandwich but that is just my preference... wow that sounds horrible But yeah, neither is a great choice. I just think Obama is horrendous and I'm ready for a change in direction.[/quote] Lots of folks feel that way nowadays, including myself at times. Yet in all seriousness, that's just too easy to conclude and in many respects is just a cop out. We all cope with (and suffer from) the current dearth of good statecraft but the key issue is how to surmount all these crappy politicians. After all, their crap literally kills people; whether it be in stupid foreign wars or via a more prolonged, soul-sucking degradation of everyday life due to their inability to create a modicum of prosperity for the bulk of the population. As is my wont, I think it all starts with self-education and understanding. In that vein, I'm going to [u][b][i]strongly recommend[/i][/b][/u] a book by Herbert Agar: "The Price of Union." He runs through the first 160 years of US history from the perspective of the development of political parties. Sounds dull but it is chock full of wisdom. A key element of his thesis is the nature of compromise within the context of our political system. Lots of other insight, too. In fact, if any one buys this book (it's kind of hard to get, I found my copy in an obscure used book store a long time ago) and decides after reading that it wasn't worth it, I'll buy their copy. How's that for a guarantee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 There's currently one copy available on Amazon for $17. My local library has his [b]The price of power; America since 1945[/b] Is that one any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1349744502' post='1168145'] Jamie, also about the jobs reports that came out. I think most people take that with a grain of salt. unemployment went up in the private sector... But the government magically created a crap load of jobs right before the election. Most people can see through that imo... People that are worried about jobs look at their selves and/or their neighbors. What the government tells them is happening is a lagging indicator. [/quote] Wait hold on, you only want private sector jobs? I thought the goal was to get people working period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I am just finishing up on another book. I'm going to see if I can somehow find that one... I love reading about history, particularly US history because I think that our founders had so much right and is the reason we have endured as long as we have. As far as your point, your right.. It is a cop out. I don't know what else to do though. I wish one of the candidates would just wow me... I am serious, I'd vote for a democrat if I thought they were the best for the country. Right now they are so far from my perspective that I don't see a national candidate doing that but I do know how politics works and the pengallum could swing back the other way. I call myself an independent for that reason, although right now it is hard to justify that. Frankly Dem's like yourself are the reason I think it is possible... so keep up the good work Homer! [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1349748395' post='1168173'] Wait hold on, you only want private sector jobs? I thought the goal was to get people working period? [/quote] not what i'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Also to be clear until the Paul Ryan was selected, I was going to vote 3rd party, as I don't care for Bush part 2, I mean Obama, and wanted a Democrat in office, not a 90s Republican..... but Paul Ryan's Ayn Rand worship is the polar opposite of what it means to be a Christian to me, and I would vote for Chairman Mao before I would vote for Paul Ryan (yes I'm being a little hyperbolic, but I would never vote for him.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1349748484' post='1168174'] not what i'm saying. [/quote] Then what are you saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [url="http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=price+union"]Abebooks.com[/url] has a number of copies available for $4-6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1349748585' post='1168175'] Also to be clear until the Paul Ryan was selected, I was going to vote 3rd party, as I don't care for Bush part 2, I mean Obama, and wanted a Democrat in office, not a 90s Republican..... but Paul Ryan's Ayn Rand worship is the polar opposite of what it means to be a Christian to me, and I would vote for Chairman Mao before I would vote for Paul Ryan (yes I'm being a little hyperbolic, but I would never vote for him.) [/quote] To each their own I guess. I see 3rd party candidates as more to my liking but I am not willing to throw away my vote. The two parties can only agree on one thing and that is to blackball all 3rd parties... And it is a damn shame. I know we will all agree to that. Our country needs more flavor. Competition breeds excellence and the dems and reps seem to just be twiddle dee and twiddle dumb. Each pissing off the others base to keep us from talking about the real issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ok I am trying to become part of this discussion because I am bored. You do understand that no matter what the government does, it is going to be ridiculed right? Of course most of the time they deserve it, but you can't please everyone. The government can't essentially create new jobs through them, because then it becomes useless spending by someone already in debt. So then you are left with a government that has to promise tax cuts and low rate financing to private companies to build plants and hire citizens in the U.S. Then the government can say they didn't waste money to create jobs, but then again they are taking a hit financially. So what is the lesser of two evil for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1349748685' post='1168177'] Then what are you saying? [/quote] My point is that when people think about jobs they don't think about unemployment rates. They look around and gauge what where they think the country is heading economically speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1349748751' post='1168179'] To each their own I guess. I see 3rd party candidates as more to my liking but I am not willing to throw away my vote. The two parties can only agree on one thing and that is to blackball all 3rd parties... And it is a damn shame. I know we will all agree to that. Our country needs more flavor. Competition breeds excellence and the dems and reps seem to just be twiddle dee and twiddle dumb. Each pissing off the others base to keep us from talking about the real issues. [/quote] Voting with your principles is never a wasted vote, it just so happens my principle right now is to send Paul Ryan back to the House. (preferably his house in Wisconsin, but for the moment Ill take the House of Representatives) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1349748871' post='1168180'] Ok I am trying to become part of this discussion because I am bored. You do understand that no matter what the government does, it is going to be ridiculed right? Of course most of the time they deserve it, but you can't please everyone. The government can't essentially create new jobs through them, because then it becomes useless spending by someone already in debt. So then you are left with a government that has to promise tax cuts and low rate financing to private companies to build plants and hire citizens in the U.S. Then the government can say they didn't waste money to create jobs, but then again they are taking a hit financially. So what is the lesser of two evil for you? [/quote] I think you hit the nail on the head. Although Government creating jobs isn't a 'bad' thing (jobs are jobs) but to your point it isn't solving the real issues either. The real way to build wealth is through small businesses and entrepreneurship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1349748871' post='1168180'] Ok I am trying to become part of this discussion because I am bored. You do understand that no matter what the government does, it is going to be ridiculed right? Of course most of the time they deserve it, but you can't please everyone. The government can't essentially create new jobs through them, because then it becomes useless spending by someone already in debt. So then you are left with a government that has to promise tax cuts and low rate financing to private companies to build plants and hire citizens in the U.S. Then the government can say they didn't waste money to create jobs, but then again they are taking a hit financially. So what is the lesser of two evil for you? [/quote] The government cant create jobs? So this whole internet thing that we are talking on now on this private sector company message board, wasnt created by governement investment through the DoD? A private sector company like DirectTV isnt employing people in the private sector because of government investment in satellites through NASA? Ect....ect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1349748959' post='1168182'] Voting with your principles is never a wasted vote, it just so happens my principle right now is to send Paul Ryan back to the House. (preferably his house in Wisconsin, but for the moment Ill take the House of Representatives) [/quote] I think the exact same about Obama so I guess we are somewhat agreeing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1349749110' post='1168184'] The government cant create jobs? So this whole internet thing that we are talking on now on this private sector company message board, wasnt created by governement investment through the DoD? A private sector company like DirectTV isnt employing people in the private sector because of government investment in satellites through NASA? Ect....ect... [/quote] I'm trying to be respectful here but Jamie, are you reading these posts? [i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]The government can't essentially create new jobs through them [/background][/size][/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]means that although you create jobs, you are paying for them through taxes. Not exactly a healthy economy right? There is a word for what that is on a grand scale but I don't want to piss anyone off so I will let each of you figure that out yourself.[/background][/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1349749338' post='1168186'] I'm trying to be respectful here but Jamie, are you reading these posts? [i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]The government can't essentially create new jobs through them [/background][/size][/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]means that although you create jobs, you are paying for them through taxes. Not exactly a healthy economy right? There is a word for what that is on a grand scale but I don't want to piss anyone off so I will let each of you figure that out yourself.[/background][/size][/font][/color] [/quote] No Rick I respectfully disagree, people working at good wages regardless of where is a healthy economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1349749110' post='1168184'] The government cant create jobs? So this whole internet thing that we are talking on now on this private sector company message board, wasnt created by governement investment through the DoD? A private sector company like DirectTV isnt employing people in the private sector because of government investment in satellites through NASA? Ect....ect... [/quote] Actually the government has been known to buy or create assets high, and sell low. Did you know that Nextel's wireless and push to talk service began on old U.S. military towers? Towers that now Spring/Nextel are abandoning? Nextel bought those for dirt cheap. Also a lot of the time, what is labeled as government, is nothing more than contracted jobs to the public. I guess my next point is more of a question. What's stop a government from starting it's own businesses, and running them as profit? Then when do you think it comes to a point where the government creates a national bank and makes all the other ones close? How else to make money in the country right? They could control the rates and choose who is worthy of loans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1349749571' post='1168188'] Actually the government has been known to buy or create assets high, and sell low. Did you know that Nextel's wireless and push to talk service began on old U.S. military towers? Towers that now Spring/Nextel are abandoning? Nextel bought those for dirt cheap. Also a lot of the time, what is labeled as government, is nothing more than contracted jobs to the public. I guess my next point is more of a question. What's stop a government from starting it's own businesses, and running them as profit? Then when do you think it comes to a point where the government creates a national bank and makes all the other ones close? How else to make money in the country right? They could control the rates and choose who is worthy of loans? [/quote] Completely in favor of a National Bank, in fact I think it would solve a number of our problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1349749671' post='1168189'] Completely in favor of a National Bank, in fact I think it would solve a number of our problems. [/quote] On that note, time to hit the sack for the night... good night fellas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1349749671' post='1168189'] Completely in favor of a National Bank, in fact I think it would solve a number of our problems. [/quote] Yeah but if people were complaining now about the rich and the benefits they receive, could you imagine the uproar when a National Bank only found rich people worthy of loans? I don't know how much literature you read on the back pages of the news paper, but creating a national bank would be another step towards a New World Order. A Global bank that control everyone through the power of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1349749818' post='1168190'] On that note, time to hit the sack for the night... good night fellas [/quote] All you want, but Hamilton had it right regarding the National Bank. Sorry Rick but I really think you got alot more reading to do with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1349749867' post='1168191'] Yeah but if people were complaining now about the rich and the benefits they receive, could you imagine the uproar when a National Bank only found rich people worthy of loans? I don't know how much literature you read on the back pages of the news paper, [color=#ff0000]but creating a national bank would be another step towards a New World Order.[/color] A Global bank that control everyone through the power of money. [/quote] [img]http://www.digitalfox.com/digitalfox/johnf-ingkerry/foilhat_files/foil5.jpg[/img] No actually it would be a return to what Hamilton had in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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