Trump makes a 5 mil offer to Obama, show me your college records

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351291896' post='1174846']
I agree the rule is kind of out dated, but would it be something you could ignore if he lied about it and covered it up? It's kind of like what happened with Clinton. In some states adultery is a criminal offense, but Clinton only got censured and I believe they did some kind of other thing they put on his formal records. Clinton didn't in trouble for adultery, but he got in troubled for telling a lie about it to Congress.
[/quote]

No, Clinton didn't lie. He redefined what the definition of the word "is" is. He meant that he wasn't getting blown while he was giving testimony to the grand jury.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1351291612' post='1174844']
I agree. Having an unpopular opinion shouldn't be a bannable offense. In fact its not an offense at all.
[/quote]

And again, it's not...

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1351292228' post='1174849']
And again, it's not...
[/quote]

Are you disagreeing with me? Let's see if we can simultaneously ban one another. But don't piss me off...I have an ace up my sleeve:

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/sgenetti77/003.jpg

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1351292595' post='1174853']
Are you disagreeing with me? Let's see if we can simultaneously ban one another. But don't piss me off...I have an ace up my sleeve:

[url="http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/sgenetti77/003.jpg"]http://i427.photobuc...netti77/003.jpg[/url]
[/quote]

Oh shit!

{Steps away from button}

[Jamie_B]

Wait Lew is a birther?


Oh lord....

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1351299147' post='1174875']
Wait Lew is a birther?


Oh lord....
[/quote]

It's not that I don't believe him, but why should this be such a big deal? Obama can silence everyone if he just did this. If indeed he has a valid birth certificate, $5 million dollars goes to a charity of his choosing. He could have it donated to Acorn or something.

The only thing that I have seen that was semi-concrete was the copy of the birth certificate that the sheriff from Arizona and the rest of his posse looked at. The examined it and found that it was printed on paper that was not available at the time of Obama's birth, and that the type on it was made with a dot matrix printer that was also not available when Obama was born. It should have been type set from an old kind of type writer they used to use.

Once again, why doesn't Obama take into his own hands and just get it over with. We have been hearing this crap for going on 4 years.

[|Lucid|]

[url="http://www.snopes.com"][img]http://www.snopes.com/images/template/snopeslogo.gif[/img][/url] [url="http://www.snopes.com/snopes.asp"]Home[/url] > [url="http://www.snopes.com/politics/politics.asp"]Politics[/url] > [url="http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obama.asp"]Barack Obama[/url] > [url="http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/birthers.asp#birthcertificate"]Birthers[/url] > Birth Certificate [url="http://www.snopes.com/cgi-bin/comments/webmail.asp"][img]http://www.snopes.com/images/sub-menu-contact-us.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.snopes.com/cgi-bin/comments/webmail.asp"][img]http://www.snopes.com/images/sub-menu-submit-rumor.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.snopes.com/cgi-bin/comments/photovideo.asp"][img]http://www.snopes.com/images/sub-menu-submit-photo.gif[/img][/url]


[b] Birth Certificate[/b]

[color=#5FA505][b]Claim:[/b][/color] Barack Obama's birth certificate is a forgery.
[img]http://www.snopes.com/images/red.gif[/img][size=5][color=#37628D][b]FALSE[/b][/color][/size] [color=#5FA505][b]Example:[/b][/color] [color=#5FA505][i][Collected via e-mail, June 2008][/i][/color]


I read that Obama will not release his birth certificate. Have heard rumors it's because he is listed as white. Or that because he isn't a U.S. born citizen.



[color=#5FA505][b]Origins:[/b][/color] In April 2011, President Barack Obama sought to put end to rumors claiming that he was not a natural-born citizen of the United States by obtaining and releasing a copy of his [url="http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/longform.pdf"]long form[/url] birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii. Officials from that state [url="http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf"]certified[/url] that the copy of the certificate they provided to President Obama was authentic: [font=Verdana][size=2]The Hawaii State Health Department recently complied with a request by President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a "long form" birth certificate.

"We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawaii," Hawaii Health Director Loretta Fuddy said. "I have seen the original records filed at the Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in Hawaii."

On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama's request, Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the copies. [/size][/font] [img]http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/longform.jpg[/img]
As they had with the [url="http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg"]Certification of Live Birth[/url] made public by the Obama campaign in June 2008, birthers immediately claimed that the long form birth certificate was also a forgery. The primary arguments advanced to demonstrate that the certificate was forged were claims that some textual elements of the certificate were anachronistic, and that the existence of layers found when the [url="http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/longform.pdf"]PDF file[/url] was opened with Adobe Illustrator proved that it had been altered. All of these arguments are erroneous.

The claims of anachronism stemmed from three elements in the certificate: [font=Verdana][size=2]1. Back in 1961 people of color were called 'Negroes.' So how can the Obama 'birth certificate' state he is 'African-American' when the term wasn't even used at that time?

2. The birth certificate that the White House released lists Obama's birth as August 4, 1961. It also lists Barack Hussein Obama as his father. No big deal, right? At the time of Obama's birth, it also shows that his father is aged 25 years old, and that Obama's father was born in "Kenya, East Africa". This wouldn't seem like anything of concern, except the fact that Kenya did not even exist until 1963, two whole years after Obama's birth, and 27 years after his father's birth. How could Obama's father have been born in a country that did not yet exist? Up and until Kenya was formed in 1963, it was known as the "British East Africa Protectorate".

3. On the birth certificate released by the White House, the listed place of birth is "Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital". This cannot be, because the hospital(s) in question in 1961 were called "Kaui Keolani Children's Hospital" and "Kapi'olani Maternity Home", respectively. The name did not change to Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital until 1978, when these two hospitals merged. How can this particular name of the hospital be on a birth certificate dated 1961 if this name had not yet been applied to it until 1978? [/size][/font] Claims that these elements are anachronistic to 1961 (the year of Barack Obama's birth) are incorrect: [list]
[*]Nowhere on Barack Obama's birth certificate does the term "African-American" appear. The space for "Race of Father" is filled in with the word "African," which at the time was a descriptor that blacks who were actually native-born Africans (like Barack Obama's father was) were more likely to use for themselves than "negro" (the latter being synonymous with "[url="http://www.trinicenter.com/kwame/2007/0901.htm"]slave[/url]" in Euro-colonial countries such as Kenya).
[*]In 1895 the British Empire established the East Africa Protectorate, the forerunner of the country now known as the republic of Kenya. Although Kenya did not achieve complete independence from the United Kingdom until 1963, it was known as the Kenya Colony from 1920 onwards and was typically referred to as Kenya long before 1963. A search of news reports from 1961 (the year of Barack Obama's birth) turns up hundreds and hundreds of [url="https://www.google.com/search?pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&tbm=nws&gl=us&as_q=kenya&as_occt=any&as_drrb=b&as_mindate=1%2F1%2F1961&as_maxdate=12%2F31%2F1961&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1961%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F1961&authuser=0"]news articles[/url] referencing that entity simply as "Kenya."
[*]The former Kapi'olani Maternity Home became the Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital (where Barack Obama was born) in 1931, and it retained that appellation until 1971, when its name was shortened to Kapi'olani Hospital. The Kauikeolani Children's Hospital (where Barack Obama was [u]not[/u] born) was a separate entity which merged with the Kapi'olani Hospital in 1978 to become the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children.

A [url="http://www.sacredhealing.com/triadoption/AAOMH/Hawaii.pdf"]listing[/url] of social services available in the Hawaiian islands documents that the facility bore that name prior to 1961:

[img]http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/kapiolani.gif[/img] Moreover, a copy of a [url="http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/hawaiibirth.jpg"]birth certificate[/url] issued to a child born in Honolulu one day after Barack Obama also shows "Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital" listed in the "Name of Hospital" field.
[/list]
As for the argument that opening the birth certificate's PDF file in Adobe Illustrator reveals the presence of multiple layers, which proves that the image was altered, that claim was debunked by an [url="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/29/expert-says-obamas-birth-certificate-legit/"]Adobe-certified expert[/url]: [font=Verdana][size=2]It didn't take long for some of President Obama’s doubters to claim the long-awaited birth certificate posted online by the White House had been altered or might be a fake.

But a leading software expert says there's no doubt about its authenticity, and he dismisses claims of fraud as flat-out wrong.

The doubters have latched onto the idea that Adobe Illustrator — the premier program for computer graphic artists — "reveals" evidence of document manipulation in the Obama birth certificate. They note Illustrator reveals nine separate layers of the document, and claim it's "proof" the file has been altered.

But that's not so, says Jean-Claude Tremblay, a leading software trainer and Adobe-certified expert, who has years of experience working with and teaching Adobe Illustrator.

He said the layers cited by doubters are evidence of the use of common, off-the-shelf scanning software — not evidence of a forgery. "I have seen a lot of illustrator documents that come from photos and contain those kind of clippings — and it looks exactly like this," he said.

Tremblay explained that the scanner optical character recognition (OCR) software attempts to translate characters or words in a photograph into text. He said the layers cited by the doubters shows that software at work — and nothing more.

"When you open it in Illustrator it looks like layers, but it doesn't look like someone built it from scratch. If someone made a fake it wouldn't look like this," he said. "Some scanning software is trying to separate the background and the text and splitting element into layers and parts of layers."

Tremblay also said that during the scanning process, instances where the software was unable to separate text fully from background led to the creation of a separate layer within the document. This could be places where a signature runs over the line of background, or typed characters touch the internal border of the document.

"I know that you can scan a document from a scanner [and] most of the time it will appear as one piece, but that doesn’t mean that there's no software that's doing this kind of stuff," he said, adding that it's really quite common. [/size][/font]</p> John Woodman, author of [url="http://www.amazon.com/Barack-Obamas-Birth-Certificate-Fraud/dp/0983759251"][i]Is Barack Obama's Birth Certificate a Fraud?: A Computer Guy Examines The Evidence for Forgery[/i],[/url] also debunked the "layers" argument in a series of videos:







The March "Cold Case Posse" investigation of Barack Obama's birth certificate conducted by Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio produced no new evidence demonstrating that document to be a forgery; that entity's report by Mara Zebest simply recycled old arguments that had long since been thoroughly [url="http://www.scribd.com/doc/59087668/Response-to-Zebest"]debunked[/url] in detail. Likewise, a July 2012 [url="http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/07/joe_arpaios_new_birther_eviden.php"]announcement[/url] from Sheriff Arpaio repeated more rumors that had already been debunked.

[color=#5FA505][b]Last updated:[/b][/color] 22 July 2012

[font=Verdana][size=2][color=#5FA505]Urban Legends Reference Pages © 1995-2012 by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson.
This material may not be reproduced without permission.
snopes and the snopes.com logo are registered service marks of snopes.com.[/color][/size][/font] </p> [img]http://www.snopes.com/images/content-divider.gif[/img] [img]http://www.snopes.com/images/template/icon-sources.gif[/img]
[b] Sources:[/b]
[size=1] Hinkelman, Michael. "Judge Rejects Montco Lawyer's Bid to Have Obama Removed from Ballot."[/size] [size=1] [i]Philadelphia Daily News[/i]. 25 October 2008.[/size] [size=1] Koppelman, Alex. "Sex, Lies and Creatively Edited Interviews with Sarah Obama."[/size] [size=1] [i]Salon[/i]. 5 December 2008.[/size] [size=1] Lee, Carol E. "Obama Seeks to Quell 'Birther' Talk."[/size] [size=1] [i]The Wall Street Journal[/i]. 28 April 2011 (p. A4).[/size] [size=1] Nakaso, Dan. "Obama's Certificate of Birth OK, State Says."[/size] [size=1] [i]Honolulu Advertiser[/i]. 1 November 2008.[/size] [size=1] Nakaso, Dan. "Hawaii: Obama Birth Certificate Is Real."[/size] [size=1] [i]Honolulu Advertiser[/i]. 27 July 2009.[/size] [size=1] Nakaso, Dan. "Hawaii Officials Confirm Obama's Original Birth Certificate Still Exists."[/size] [size=1] [i]Honolulu Advertiser[/i]. 28 July 2009.[/size] [size=1] Olpihant, James. "President Moves to End 'Sideshows' Over His Birth."[/size] [size=1] [i]Los Angeles Times[/i]. 28 April 2011 (p. A1).[/size] [size=1] Page, Susan. "Citing 'Sideshow,' Obama Offers Full Birth Certificate."[/size] [size=1] [i]USA Today[/i]. 28 April 2011 (p. A1).[/size] [size=1] Shear, Michael D. "Citing 'Silliness,' Obama Shows Birth Certificate."[/size] [size=1] [i]The New York Times[/i]. 28 April 2011 (p. A1).[/size] [size=1] Voell, Paula. "Teacher from Kenmore Recalls Obama Was a Focused Student."[/size] [size=1] [i]The Buffalo News[/i]. 20 January 2009.[/size] [size=1] Winter, Jana. "Expert: No Doubt Obama's Birth Certificate Is Legit."[/size] [size=1] [i]FOXNews.com[/i]. 29 April 2011.[/size] [size=1] [i]Associated Press[/i]. "State Department of Health Declares Obama Birth Certificate Legal."[/size] [size=1] [i]Honolulu Star-Bulletin[/i]. 31 October 2008.[/size] [size=1] [i]Associated Press[/i]. "Challenge to Obama Is Dismissed."[/size] [size=1] [i]The New York Times[/i]. 5 March 2009.[/size] [size=1] [i]Associated Press[/i]. "Widow Says Husband Is Doctor on Obama Certificate."[/size] [size=1] 28 April 2011.[/size] [size=1] [i]The Economist[/i]. "Born Under a Bad Sign."[/size] [size=1] 28 November 2008.[/size] [img]http://www.snopes.com/images/content-divider.gif[/img]
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Please read all this Lew....

[Lewdog]

But once again I have to ask, if that article is true, why would Obama just show it to Trump and get a free $5 million dollars for a charity of his choice. Can you imagine how big of a deal $5 million dollars can do for a charity? Why be so stubborn? If Obama gets elected he could just turn around and stick it to Trump with a large tax increase on the rich.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351301951' post='1174891']
But once again I have to ask, if that article is true, why would Obama just show it to Trump and get a free $5 million dollars for a charity of his choice. Can you imagine how big of a deal $5 million dollars can do for a charity? Why be so stubborn? If Obama gets elected he could just turn around and stick it to Trump with a large tax increase on the rich.
[/quote]

Because of you Lew... And everyone like you, that watched the stupid birth certificate bullshit on FOX News and continue to believe it to this day regardless of the fact that he has indeed released his birth certificate, it has been verified as authentic, and all theories of falseness debunked.. It doesn't matter if it's legit.. All Trump or FOX has to do is get some "expert" to come on and say it is fake. And a certain flock will step right in line.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1351302084' post='1174892']
Because of you Lew... And everyone like you, that watched the stupid birth certificate bullshit on FOX News and continue to believe it to this day regardless of the fact that he has indeed released his birth certificate, it has been verified as authentic, and all theories of falseness debunked.. It doesn't matter if it's legit.. All Trump or FOX has to do is get some "expert" to come on and say it is fake. And a certain flock will step right in line.
[/quote]

yep

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1351302084' post='1174892']
Because of you Lew... And everyone like you, that watched the stupid birth certificate bullshit on FOX News and continue to believe it to this day regardless of the fact that he has indeed released his birth certificate, it has been verified as authentic, and all theories of falseness debunked.. It doesn't matter if it's legit.. All Trump or FOX has to do is get some "expert" to come on and say it is fake. And a certain flock will step right in line.
[/quote]

But how were some self-appointed investigators supposed to have examined a copy? I mean it has been 4 years...and if everything is legit, not only can Obama donate $5 million to a charity, but it validates himself and gives him momentum going into the election. If everything is legit, Obama should be the bigger man, invite Trump to the white House and sit down in a room full of journalist and show it to him. It's a win-win situation for Obama. He gets the positive publicity, he gets the $5 mil, and he gets the chance to make Trump look like an idiot. Where in this can Obama lose?

[T-Dub]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351302621' post='1174897']
Where in this can Obama lose?
[/quote]

Well let's see.. He's already released the damn thing & had it verified, yet you still seem to think it's fake. I think a better question would be "What does he have to gain?" He could have video footage of his head coming out of his mom's cooch with the fuckin USS Arizona Monument & dancing hula girls in the background and you still wouldn't believe him, so what's the point? All it does is validate Trump's attention-whoring bullshit, which is what this is all about in the first place.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1351307560' post='1174907']
Well let's see.. He's already released the damn thing & had it verified, yet you still seem to think it's fake. I think a better question would be "What does he have to gain?" He could have video footage of his head coming out of his mom's cooch with the fuckin USS Arizona Monument & dancing hula girls in the background and you still wouldn't believe him, so what's the point? All it does is validate Trump's attention-whoring bullshit, which is what this is all about in the first place.
[/quote]

Obama could make Trump look like Geraldo opening Al Cappone's vault. I've never seen his birth certificate, have you? If I was Obama I would make it a huge spectacle out of it and even have Trump bring the money in a brief case. Obama could get that extra percentage to put him over the top. A lot of polls are running neck and neck. I think I read about the Gallop poll, which has a pretty good history of projecting the winner of the election, had Romney as the winner. Some places are even saying that what happened with Al Gore's election, that Obama could win the popular vote, but lose to Romney in the Electoral College.

[|OneHeartBeat|]

[quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1351302084' post='1174892']


Because of you Lew... And everyone like you, that watched the stupid birth certificate bullshit on FOX News and continue to believe it to this day regardless of the fact that he has indeed released his birth certificate, it has been verified as authentic, and all theories of falseness debunked.. It doesn't matter if it's legit.. All Trump or FOX has to do is get some "expert" to come on and say it is fake. And a certain flock will step right in line.
[/quote]

FOX is much better than MSNBC or CNN. Even NBC, ABC and CBS. Wouldn't you agree? If not why?

[Lewdog]

[quote name='OneHeartBeat' timestamp='1351312968' post='1174923']
FOX is much better than MSNBC or CNN. Even NBC, ABC and CBS. Wouldn't you agree? If not why?
[/quote]

Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch who in himself is a VERY influential man across the globe. He is believed to be ultra-conservative. He has a long list of newspapers and several media companies through out the world. He wasn't born in the U.S. and actually became a U.S. citizen so he could take control of Fox. Did you know that people who aren't American citizens, can't own a television station network. So I would probably say, if their is conservative biased news, the network heads are making sure Murdock would be happy with what he is seeing.

[steggyD]

My grandfather delivered Obama in Kenya.

[oldschooler]

Even if Obama had been born outside of the U.S., his mother's U.S. citizenship entitled him to U.S. citizenship.

Is this not a true statement?

[Lewdog]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1351431849' post='1175139']
Even if Obama had been born outside of the U.S., his mother's U.S. citizenship entitled him to U.S. citizenship.

Is this not a true statement?
[/quote]

No, because that isn't the rule.
[quote]

Only native-born U.S. citizens (or those born abroad, but only to parents who were both citizens of the U.S.) may be president of the United States, though from time to time that requirement is called into question, most recently after Arnold Schwarzenegger, born in Austria, was elected governor of California, in 2003. The Constitution originally provided a small loophole to this provision: One needn't have been born in the United States but had to be a citizen at the time the Constitution was adopted. But, since that occurred in 1789, that ship has sailed.
[/quote]

[quote]Obama Sr. was born in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachuonyo_District"]Rachuonyo District[/url][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr#cite_note-Oywa_2008b-2"][3][/url][/sup] on the shores of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Victoria"]Lake Victoria[/url] just outside [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendu_Bay"]Kendu Bay[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya_Colony"]Kenya Colony[/url], at the time a colony of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire"]British Empire[/url]. He was raised in the village of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyang%E2%80%99oma_Kogelo"]Nyang’oma Kogelo[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siaya_District"]Siaya District[/url], Nyanza Province.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr#cite_note-Ombuor-13"][14][/url][/sup] His family are members of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luo_people_of_Kenya_and_Tanzania"]Luo ethnic group[/url]. His father was [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onyango_Obama"]Onyango (later Hussein) Obama[/url] (c. 1895-1979) and his mother was [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akuma_Obama"]Habiba Akumu Nyanjango[/url] of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karachuonyo_Constituency"]Karabondi, Kenya[/url], Hussein Onyango's second wife. However, Barack Obama Sr. was raised by his father Hussein's third wife, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Onyango_Obama"]Sarah Ogwel[/url] of Kogelo, after his mother Akumu separated from her husband Hussein and left her family in 1945.[/quote]

I know Trump can a big douche bag a lot of the time, but I'm sure he or whomever he paid to, would have looked into all the rules of becoming a Presidant, before making such a big deal out of all this. Like I said before, I don't really feel so slighted that the rule may have been broken, but the fact that it may have been covered up for so long, and the idea could have been simply proven right or wrong so easily, yet never has. Presidents are supposed to be held to the highest degree, because they are a representative of the majority of people in the United States, but so many times they make an embarrassment out of us, than make us proud to be who we are.

Kind of an odd fact I found while looking things up, did you know Obama's dad was an atheist? His mother's history of religion is kind of sketchy. She lived in different places all over the world, and hasn't been attached to any particular sect.

[quote]
Dunham's daughter, Maya Soetoro-Ng, when asked later if her mother was an atheist, said, "I wouldn't have called her an atheist. She was an agnostic. She basically gave us all the good books — the Bible, the Hindu [i]Upanishads[/i] and the Buddhist scripture, the [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching"]Tao Te Ching[/url][/i] — and wanted us to recognize that everyone has something beautiful to contribute."[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham#cite_note-Solomon_2008-31"][32][/url][/sup] "Jesus, she felt, was a wonderful example. But she felt that a lot of Christians behaved in un-Christian ways."[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham#cite_note-csmonitor-65"][66][/url][/sup] On the other hand, Maxine Box, Dunham's best friend in high school, said that Dunham "touted herself [then] as an atheist, and it was something she'd read about and could argue. She was always challenging and arguing and comparing. She was already thinking about things that the rest of us hadn't."[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham#cite_note-notjustagirl-5"][6][/url][/sup]
In a 2007 speech, Obama contrasted the beliefs of his mother to those of her parents, and commented on her spirituality and skepticism: "My mother, whose parents were nonpracticing Baptists and Methodists, was one of the most spiritual souls I ever knew. But she had a healthy skepticism of religion as an institution."[/quote]

In this day and age where people can use the information highway, I can't believe this hasn't garnered more attention. Generally as citizens in the U.S. our religious beliefs are built upon the family we live and grow up in, more than we choose to be. There are some exceptions to the rule where someone might change their religion down the road in life, but the foundation of our character and system of beliefs is usually connected to experiences we have in our initial development. I would be hard pressed to believe that Obama would veer away from the religion of both his parents and even most of his grand parents, on his own.

[|Montana Bengal|]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351439545' post='1175148']
I would be hard pressed to believe that Obama would veer away from the religion of both his parents and even most of his grand parents, on his own.
[/quote]

Really? Because where I was raised, I had a ton of Mormon friends that completely rejected their faith.

There is also [url="http://wtvr.com/2012/10/28/in-obamas-first-term-an-evolving-christian-faith-and-a-more-evangelical-style/"]this[/url]

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Montana Bengal' timestamp='1351454775' post='1175195']
Really? Because where I was raised, I had a ton of Mormon friends that completely rejected their faith.

There is also [url="http://wtvr.com/2012/10/28/in-obamas-first-term-an-evolving-christian-faith-and-a-more-evangelical-style/"]this[/url]
[/quote]

Your talking apples and potatoes there. I'd like to know when Obama started to become a Christian. Now don't get me wrong, I know we aren't all cookie cutter babies, we do have our own life to live. Science has pointed out that the memories we have from early childhood from our parents and extended family is what makes is who we are.

To be totally honest, I'm not a big religion guy, but then again, I'm not running for President either. I would say I'm an atheist, I just am a scientific minded person, that holds me back from believing things, that there are so many conflicting stories within all the religions around the world is something I can't ignore. As a child my mother took me to the same church her parents went to that was Episcopalian church. At the time I was so young that all I can remember was getting baptized, going up in front of everyone and singing a song from Sunday school, and the Easter egg hunt. As I got older church was put on the back burner. In fact I wanted to sign up for the Boy Scouts. When my dad saw the pamphlet he got pissed and told me there was no way I could join. He said that because of the fact the book pamphlet mentioned God, and how it was "mandatory" to embrace their beliefs, he wasn't going to let me join. In fact he came to the school and had a discussion with the Troop leader. At first he didn't want to let me join because he didn't want to be responsible for buying the stuff I would need, and getting me to and from meetings and events. My dad did let me join the 4-H Club so it can't be that he was going to have more responsibility. Funny thing is, 4-H also has religious undertones and we did a prayer at the beginning or end of each meeting, soooo...I dunno.

All I can see is, Obama's immediate family including grandparents, were either not religious or were Muslim. So I don't understand how he bucked the trend to become a Christian. That's all.

[sois]

Lewdog, you are focused on really stupid shit

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Montana Bengal' timestamp='1351454775' post='1175195']
Really? Because where I was raised, I had a ton of Mormon friends that completely rejected their faith.

There is also [url="http://wtvr.com/2012/10/28/in-obamas-first-term-an-evolving-christian-faith-and-a-more-evangelical-style/"]this[/url]
[/quote]

Most agnostics and atheists I know were raised Catholic. I was raised in an evangelical Xtian household and was a devout Christian for 75% of my life and am now an atheist. To insinuate or contend that people don't reject the religion of their childhood or their parents is just silly...

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351457433' post='1175208']
Lewdog, you are focused on really stupid shit
[/quote]There's that too...

[Lewdog]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351457433' post='1175208']
Lewdog, you are focused on really stupid shit
[/quote]
[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1351457540' post='1175210']
Most agnostics and atheists I know were raised Catholic. I was raised in an evangelical Xtian household and was a devout Christian for 75% of my life and am now an atheist. To insinuate or contend that people don't reject the religion of their childhood or their parents is just silly...

There's that too...
[/quote]

I don't understand how the religion of one candidate but not the other is relevant. I also don't understand how wanting someone to solve an issue/problem is stupid shit. Being Liberals or a hybrid Liberal, makes you so closed minded.

At no point did I say ALL people don't reject the religion they are raised as by their parents. If you paid any attention to my post at all and didn't just scan it for 2 seconds and start to bash my position, you would have read that despite how my mom tried to raise me, I chose to not follow a particular religion and it's faith. If you want me to spend hour after hour finding you hundreds of web sites and studies supporting my position on how religion, morals, and other stances are "primarily" learned from their family in early childhood. I can also show you articles where it says people with scientific personalities are less likely to be a member of a particular religion. I could also post hundreds of articles describing how many times when couples get married, one of the spouses would change their religion to their mate's in order to relive conflict...Michelle Obama is a Christian. Go figure. What claims have I made through out the Debate thread that I haven't eventually found proof of it happening? The closest thing I can think of was the Arizona Sheriff and his team investigating Obama's birth certificate. I didn't get the story wrong, what was wrong was that they were presented a modern copy of the certificate and not the original. Trump is offering a shit ton of money that Obama could easily have donated to a charity of his choice...

[|Elflocko|]

[url="http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e12-all-about-mormons"]http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e12-all-about-mormons[/url]

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1351459089' post='1175213']
[url="http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e12-all-about-mormons"]http://www.southpark...l-about-mormons[/url]
[/quote]

Yeah yeah, but religions, and the right to follow the religion of someone's choice is why this country was formed. Catholicism has one of the largest followers of its faith in the world, yet there has been only ONE Catholic U.S. President, Kennedy.