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[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1351461535' post='1175233']
People often forget that "freedom of religion" also means "freedom FROM religion".
[/quote]

Oh I total understand what you are saying, and I am a part of that because of my own beliefs. The problem at stake is a person's integrity to tell the truth be honest about who he actually is. I'm not sure exactly what the majority of the citizens of the United States feels, but I could careless what religion someone is (unless they are Satanic) as long as they are upfront with it.

I have a question for any Obama supporters. When Obama's Pastor in Chicago went off on a racial rant during services at his church, and Obama decided to leave him on the hook for what he said, and instead made it public he was leaving that church, how did you feel about the situation?

This probably wasn't a random thing for this pastor. Obama has been going to this church for years. Obama only left this church when the press took it to the national media. Did that reflect on Obama's integrity?
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351462825' post='1175237']
Why does either dude's religion matter? All that matters is their plans while in office. Everything else is distraction to get dumb people worked up.
[/quote]

Either candidates religion might not matter to you, me, Rick, Bunghole, or anyone else you can think of right now, but we unfortunately doesn't represent the majority of voters in the U.S. When every President buy one has be Christian, it matters to someone.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351462825' post='1175237']
Why does either dude's religion matter? All that matters is their plans while in office. Everything else is distraction to get dumb people worked up.
[/quote]

And it matters when one thinks he is pre-destined by god to hold office, or if someone with an evangelical apocalyptic (read "Let's bomb Iran to make Jesus come back!") perspective gets their hand next to the button...
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[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1351463771' post='1175245']
And it matters when one thinks he is pre-destined by god to hold office, or if someone with an evangelical apocalyptic (read "Let's bomb Iran to make Jesus come back!") perspective gets their hand next to the button...
[/quote]

If those beliefs influence his policy/plan, then yes, it's an issue, but just "When did Obama become Christian" or "Romeny believes in magical underwear" should not be a significant factor on your vote.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351468009' post='1175261']
If those beliefs influence his policy/plan, then yes, it's an issue, but just "When did Obama become Christian" or[b] "Romeny believes in magical underwear" [/b]should not be a significant factor on your vote.
[/quote]

Sorry, but the propensity to believe in stupid shit is a huge factor in my vote...
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351468009' post='1175261']
If those beliefs influence his policy/plan, then yes, it's an issue, but just "When did Obama become Christian" or "Romeny believes in magical underwear" should not be a significant factor on your vote.
[/quote]

It's not a factor in how *I* vote, but it is a pertinent part of the discussion because it does matter to a lot of voting Americans. Having this discussion between us on this board will probably not change a lot of people's votes when taking into account other people's bias based on religion. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351468313' post='1175266']
It's not a factor in how *I* vote, but it is a pertinent part of the discussion [b]because it does matter to a lot of voting Americans.[/b] Having this discussion between us on this board will probably not change a lot of people's votes when taking into account other people's bias based on religion. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
[/quote]

Those Americans are retards.

How do I know this? I dunno, cause he says so. Same level of confidence I know that Romney believes in magical underwear.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351469245' post='1175275']
Those Americans are retards.

How do I know this? I dunno, cause he says so. Same level of confidence I know that Romney believes in magical underwear.
[/quote]

You know the same way you tried to prove me wrong, is the same stream you are trying to swim now. You believe everything Obama tells you? I showed proof that in 2011 Obama made the statement he would have all the U.S. forces in Iraq back home by the end of 2011. It's now almost election time in 2012. Obama made a documented lie. So what makes you believe his word, when it has been proven he has at least lied once. That's not logical.

Once again, my beliefs of Obama has nothing to do with this situation. It's just facts and logic.
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[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351469599' post='1175276']
You know the same way you tried to prove me wrong, is the same stream you are trying to swim now. You believe everything Obama tells you? I showed proof that in 2011 Obama made the statement he would have all the U.S. forces in Iraq back home by the end of 2011. It's now almost election time in 2012. Obama made a documented lie. So what makes you believe his word, when it has been proven he has at least lied once. That's not logical.

Once again, my beliefs of Obama has nothing to do with this situation. It's just facts and logic.
[/quote]

Goddamn dude, how many times do I have to post this link: [url="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/126/begin-removing-combat-brigades-from-iraq/"]http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/126/begin-removing-combat-brigades-from-iraq/[/url]

Obama kept his promise about Iraq.

RE: His religion. Do I take his 'word' on something that doesn't make a lick of difference? Sure. Just like I believe Romney when he says he's Mormon. That shit doesn't matter to me.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351470945' post='1175280']
Goddamn dude, how many times do I have to post this link: [url="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/126/begin-removing-combat-brigades-from-iraq/"]http://www.politifac...ades-from-iraq/[/url]

Obama kept his promise about Iraq.

RE: His religion. Do I take his 'word' on something that doesn't make a lick of difference? Sure. Just like I believe Romney when he says he's Mormon. That shit doesn't matter to me.
[/quote]

Yep, let me say you are right, kind of. Like many politicians, Obama took some unethical short cuts in order to make his promise.

[quote][color=#000000][size=4]General Martin Dempsey, USA, CJCS, arrived in Baghdad on August 21, 2012, the highest-ranking US military officer to visit there since December 2011, said, "We still retain significant investment and significant influence. But now it's on the basis of a partnership and not on the basis of ownership.” AFP reported that Dempsey said he came to build a dialogue with his Iraqi counterparts and explore expanding military ties. AFP said he wanted to discuss Iraq's interest in training and military exercises with U.S. forces as well as the possibility of arms sales. There are some 200 military people attached to the US Embassy Baghdad. The photo shows Iraqi army Gen. Zebari Babakir, left, chief of defense, meting with Dempsey in Baghdad, August 21, 2012. (082212)[/size][/color][/quote]

So the Embassy in Iraq can have it's own little army, yet the consulate in war torn Syria gets 20 guys with flashlights and batons? Justify that.

[quote]

[color=#000000][size=4]This simply is meant to serve as a reminder that the US plans to station a significant force in Kuwait and the Mideast region, as many as 40,000 total, following the Afghan withdrawal. As of January 2012, the US had moved 15,000 troops to Kuwait. It has now been announced that as many as 13,500 are to be stationed in Kuwait following the Afghan withdrawal. I cannot yet tell if these are additive or whether this will be the total stationed there. The US forces are rotating in and out conducting intense training there in case sudden fighting should break out in Iraq or elsewhere in the region, or should problems arise with Iran. This photo, for example, shows soldiers of A/4-118th Infantry from the South Carolina National Guard engaging targets during a platoon live-fire exercise at the Udairi Range Complex in northern Kuwait, July 31, 2012. The Soldiers also cleared buildings and a trench system during the exercise. (082112)[/size][/color]
[/quote]

So moving soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan to Kuwait is a full withdraw with he soldiers coming home?

[quote][color=#000000][size=4]Susan Crabtree reported for [/size][/color][color=#000000][size=4][i]The Washington Times[/i][/size][/color][color=#000000][size=4] on July 8, 2012 that Iraq is headed toward civil war. She cites power struggles between ethnic and sectarian forces. Sunni militants have been attacking government facilities and Shiite pilgrims. You will recall that the Sunnis, a minority, were in charge of Iraq under Saddam. They no longer are. Iranian influence is said to be increasing. This bears watching. There are reports of tensions between the US and the Government of Iraq. (070912)[/size][/color][/quote]

So basically all the soldiers who lost their lives fighting for the citizens of Iraq and to give them freedom, might be wasted by a pre-mature withdraw. Isn't this the same kind of thing that Bush Sr. was railed for? Not finishing the business at hand, and allowing the hydra to grow back it's missing heads.

[quote][size=4][i]The New York Times[/i][/size][size=4] reported on February 7, 2012 that the State Department is rethinking the size and missions of the US Embassy Baghdad, and Iraqi government officials are bewildered by American intentions with this embassy and say there is no agreement for its many missions. The embassy has already found it cannot take on all the missions left behind by the US military departure. The main problems at the moment have to do with the numbers of contractors, the numbers of embassy staff, and the Iraqi government’s claims that it has no agreements with the US to justify a 16,000 person embassy. Many in the government see the embassy as trying to infringe on national sovereignty and for using it as a base for Mideast-wide operations. The government is making it hard for the embassy to get supplies and to bring people in. [/size][size=4][i]The Times[/i][/size][size=4] said State could cut the size in half. (020812)[/size][/quote]

:29:

[quote][size=4]It is hard to tell whether this is related to Iraq or Iran or both. But there is certainly a buildup of US forces in Kuwaig and the Arabian Sea. The USS [/size][size=4][i]Stennis[/i][/size][size=4] Carrier Strike Group (CSG) has left the Arabian Sea, relieved by the USS [/size][size=4][i]Vinson[/i][/size][size=4] CSG and the USS [/size][size=4][i]Abraham Lincoln[/i][/size][size=4] CSG is in the Indian Ocean on its way to the area as well. Washington said this was not in reaction to issues with Iran or Iraq. The [/size][size=4][i]Washington Tribune[/i][/size][size=4] reported on January 13, 2011 that such may not be true. The two CSGs will remain in the Arabian Sea, and there are build-ups in train elsewhere, all in response to CINCENTCOM’s requirement for more forces to respond to any contingency with Iran or, less likely, in Iraq. The 1st Brigade “Ironhorses” of the 1st Cav Division has about 4,500 troops in Kuwait, moved there from Iraq with artillery and tanks. It has been designated a “Mobile Response Force.” A National Guard Brigade from Minnesota has been in Kuwait since August 2011. A combat aviation brigade arrived in December. And reports are another major unit is preparing to deploy there soon. Experts I have heard on TV say there is no chance US forces will go back into Iraq. I am not so sure as the Iranian controlled Shia militia in Iraq is creating havoc there. It does not sound plausible that US ground forces would go into Iran, especially at the levels in Kuwait. That said, a scenario can be envisioned where they went in to overtake a nuclear facility and destroy it. SecDef Panetta did say that we would keep 40,000 troops in the region, so perhaps this is part of that contingency plan --- what we are unsure of is what contingency they might be preparing for. (011312)[/size][/quote]

That sounds like Obama did every thing he said he would...righhhhht.

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Your accusation was "Obama lied, he didn't remove the troops from Iraq in time".

Now that you see proof, you start finding issue with other things. Sounds like a pretty petty way of dealing with defeat. All of those things you pointed out are separate arguments. I think Obama is a d-bag for simply moving the troops to a different war. However, I can be honest with the facts and say that he kept his promise on withdrawal from Iraq.

You however, are a super douche and can't even surrender a blatantly false stance that you keep insisting is true.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351476326' post='1175303']
Your accusation was "Obama lied, he didn't remove the troops from Iraq in time".

Now that you see proof, you start finding issue with other things. Sounds like a pretty petty way of dealing with defeat. All of those things you pointed out are separate arguments. I think Obama is a d-bag for simply moving the troops to a different war. However, I can be honest with the facts and say that he kept his promise on withdrawal from Iraq.

You however, are a super douche and can't even surrender a blatantly false stance that you keep insisting is true.
[/quote]

No, the original post that contained what Obama said, was that all the troops would be out of Iraq in time for the holidays.

[quote[b]]“Today, I can report that, as promised, the rest of our troops in Iraq will come home by the end of the year,” Obama said at the White House yesterday.[/b][/quote]

Since when did 'home' for U.S. military become Kuwait and the Embassy in Iraq?

[url="http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-22/obama-says-u-s-troop-withdrawal-from-iraq-is-a-promise-kept.html"]http://www.businessw...omise-kept.html[/url]

While you continue to call me all the names you can think of. Make sure stop long enough to eat some crow.

:weaksauce:

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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351477528' post='1175306']
You're being real gay, arguing semantics. Obama did withdraw them from Iraq. Yes or no?

That's all I ever questioned.
[/quote]

There is absolutely no semantics when you hold a press conference and tell soldier's families they are leaving their tour of duty in a war zone, to later turn around and say something else. So what do you think the wives of the soldiers still serving over here, had to tell their children when their daddy wasn't home for the holidays? The most important thing about Obama's statement, was that the soldiers were indeed leaving harms way and coming home.

Now I know, that despite some of the crap you have been throwing at me, that you know better than to try and wrap things up with,

[quote][b]"You're being real gay, arguing semantics. Obama did withdraw them from Iraq. Yes or no?[/b][/quote]

Obama broke a promise to a lot of families. Not only that, but in searching for the truth you wanted to hear, I found where they had 1,600 Americans at the Iraq Embassy, compared to the 20 dumbasses they had protecting the U.S. consulate in Syria. That shit still pisses me off an hour later after reading it.
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[quote name='sois' timestamp='1351478375' post='1175310']
Goddamn dude, you can't even answer a yes/no question.
[/quote]

Of coarse not, because you changed what the original statement was. If you want me to answer if all the soldiers from Iraq are gone? No, because some of them are still at the Embassy in Iraq. If I ask you yes or no if Obama sent all the soldiers from Iraq back home to their families like he promised, would you say yes or no?
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I would say no. I do not like that O'bama sent troops to a different place. That's one reason why I think Obama is a d-bag.

I have no interest in Romney or Obama so I feel I'm pretty fuckin fair to both of them.

You are a biased h-moe who can't admit he is wrong and tries to change the question. You do not have integrity in my eyes. You do not have credibility based on other stupid things you have said. Therefore, I do not respect your opinions.
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