Off Season Thread

[Lewdog]

I like what Cozart brings too much to trade him. The problem is Gregorius is 5 years younger. A team that is trying to stay competitive for extended lengths of time stay young, not old. I do however think Cozart would play long enough, for the Reds to eventually groom a short stop to take his place. Honestly I wouldn't trade either of them unless the package blew me away. It would have to include a stud left fielder that is young and has power, a young starting pitcher, and a utility man that can play multiple positions and has speed and decent hitting stats.

[Jamie_B]

Fraizer to the OF, Cozart to 3rd and Gregorious to SS?

[Jason]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1352460277' post='1178888']
Fraizer to the OF, Cozart to 3rd and Gregorious to SS?
[/quote]

I thought about that too.

But if we could get a closer for one of them and move Chapman into the rotation, I'm all for it.




Oh, and Jay Bruce won a Silver Slugger award!

[JC]

[size=5][sub]I know I've said this before, but I would love to see us take a 2 year deal on Melky. New two hole hitter. Is a switch hitter. High OBP and hits well with RISP. [/sub]

[sub]If not, Grady Sizemore might not be a bad guy to bring in on a incentive-laden 1 year dea with option for year two. If he can stay healthy, the center field position would be set for two years. Have to think he can eventually get and stay healthy. Could platoon every 3-4 days with Drew.[/sub][/size]

[JC]

Just saw Grady won't be playing center on his torn up legs. Sooo...maybe not.

[Lewdog]

Cozart doesn't have the power to play third base. Moving him there would similar to the Freel experiment that worked for about a month. Please keep third base as a 20+ home run 30+ doubles guy who has a good glove and arm.

[Jason]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352499926' post='1179052']
Cozart doesn't have the power to play third base. Moving him there would similar to the Freel experiment that worked for about a month. Please keep third base as a 20+ home run 30+ doubles guy who has a good glove and arm.
[/quote]

He hit 15 HRs and 33 doubles as a rookie.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1352506172' post='1179061']
He hit 15 HRs and 33 doubles as a rookie.
[/quote]

He's still not in the league as the last two guys, Rolen and Edwin. Good teams have power at the corners and great defense up the middle. It's a time tested system and works.

[Jason]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352507324' post='1179066']
He's still not in the league as the last two guys, Rolen and Edwin. Good teams have power at the corners and great defense up the middle. It's a time tested system and works.
[/quote]

Yeah, but we have above average power from 2B. Doesn't matter where the production comes from as long as we have it.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1352508747' post='1179070']
Yeah, but we have above average power from 2B. Doesn't matter where the production comes from as long as we have it.
[/quote]

I think Brandon's hitting stats make up more for the lack of offense at the catching position. Phillips has also been slowing down over the years and not stealing as often as he should. His on-base percentage and strike out totals aren't exactly where I would like them to be. The Reds are now left with Hannigan and Mesoraco because the Reds traded away their best catching prospect. Are they going to draft someone or trade for a guy that is somewhere around the talent defensively of Hannigan, but is a better hitter?

[BengalRep85-9]

This catching prospect you speak of just got busted for juicing.

So was he really the best prospect or was it the juice?

We shall see.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='BengalRep85-9' timestamp='1352532688' post='1179118']
This catching prospect you speak of just got busted for juicing.

So was he really the best prospect or was it the juice?

We shall see.
[/quote]

I honestly don't know. I don't mean this to sound bad, but is it just me or does it seem like a lot of the Latin American players seem to be older than their birth certificate or juicing. In fact some of the greatest players of all time to come from Latin America, Sammy Sosa, Juan Gonzalez, and Palmerio all did.

[Lewdog]

I just found the answer to the left fielder problem. Andre Eithier is being dangled out there as trade bait from the Dodgers. Yes, he is a right fielder, but for his bat, move him to left. Can Heisey play anything other than left field? If Hamilton isn't ready to play Center I am pretty sure Eithier has played center field before. Either would be a perfect replacement in the batting order for the stats that are lost from Rolen. Eithier actually has very similar stats to Rolen, with even a little bit higher batting average.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352586402' post='1179238']
I just found the answer to the left fielder problem. Andre Eithier is being dangled out there as trade bait from the Dodgers. Yes, he is a right fielder, but for his bat, move him to left. Can Heisey play anything other than left field? If Hamilton isn't ready to play Center I am pretty sure Eithier has played center field before. Either would be a perfect replacement in the batting order for the stats that are lost from Rolen. Eithier actually has very similar stats to Rolen, with even a little bit higher batting average.
[/quote]

I thought about it when I saw it but the contract is too big in my opinion. You would have to give up a lot of prospects and have him on the hook for a 5 year $85 million deal. You would be much better off just going out and signing Josh Hamilton for that contract (Hamiltons might be a little more, but you wouldnt have to give up the prospects). Very, very unlikely this happens.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1352586612' post='1179239']
I thought about it when I saw it but the contract is too big in my opinion. You would have to give up a lot of prospects and have him on the hook for a 5 year $85 million deal. You would be much better off just going out and signing Josh Hamilton for that contract (Hamiltons might be a little more, but you wouldnt have to give up the prospects). Very, very unlikely this happens.
[/quote]

Problem with Hamilton is, he won't allow any type of language in his contract that voids any of the money if he relapses on drugs and alcohol. They said that is why him and the Rangers could never pull a big contract signing. Both guys have injury historys. Hamilton is a better player, but Eithier is less..."unique." Hamilton is said to be kind of schizophrenic. He could be a locker room distraction like Dunn and Griffey said he was. I've never met the man so I don't know.

The Reds could always make some kind of deal where the Dodgers eat some of his future salary as well.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352587076' post='1179244']
Problem with Hamilton is, he won't allow any type of language in his contract that voids any of the money if he relapses on drugs and alcohol. They said that is why him and the Rangers could never pull a big contract signing. Both guys have injury historys. Hamilton is a better player, but Eithier is less..."unique." Hamilton is said to be kind of schizophrenic. He could be a locker room distraction like Dunn and Griffey said he was. I've never met the man so I don't know.

The Reds could always make some kind of deal where the Dodgers eat some of his future salary as well.
[/quote]

Im not saying we should actually sign hamilton, im just saying Ethier is too costly in both contract dollars and prospects we would have to give up. If the dodgers ate some of the salary maybe, but that would just mean us giving up more prospects IMO. I just highly doubt we make as big of splashes this offseason as we did last offseason with Madson and Latos. Unless maybe we have more money to spend than I think...

[Lewdog]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1352587743' post='1179247']
Im not saying we should actually sign hamilton, im just saying Ethier is too costly in both contract dollars and prospects we would have to give up. If the dodgers ate some of the salary maybe, but that would just mean us giving up more prospects IMO. I just highly doubt we make as big of splashes this offseason as we did last offseason with Madson and Latos. Unless maybe we have more money to spend than I think...
[/quote]

Well you have to remember the Reds have already basically come out and said Madsen isn't coming back, especially after they got Broxton at a budget cost. I think they resign Broxton and he is anointed the closer. Madsen made what $8-9 million last year? I just looked and I now know why the Reds gave up the farm for Latos. They saved a bunch of money on car insurance. Latos only got paid $550,000 last year. WoW! They better sign him to an extension fast before he hits arbitration. Either the Reds get a big bat for left field in free agency, or they put full faith into Heisey to be an everyday player. No more of this platoon bullshit. It rarely works. I've seen the Reds make it work, but it is seriously hindering the development of young talent when they don't get a run of games where they start everyday. You know how you feel that first day back to work after a week vacation? Where it takes you a while to get your bearings? Imagine being a baseball player and feeling like that with a 95 mph fastball coming at you.

Ludwick was an absolute bargain for $2 million last year. Bring him back and let him start everyday? 26 HR 80 RBI in only 125 games. He was easily a 30 HR guy. He hit 37 HRs one year with the cards, so it isn't a freak thing.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352588163' post='1179248']
Well you have to remember the Reds have already basically come out and said Madsen isn't coming back, especially after they got Broxton at a budget cost. I think they resign Broxton and he is anointed the closer. Madsen made what $8-9 million last year? I just looked and I now know why the Reds gave up the farm for Latos. They saved a bunch of money on car insurance. Latos only got paid $550,000 last year. WoW! They better sign him to an extension fast before he hits arbitration. Either the Reds get a big bat for left field in free agency, or they put full faith into Heisey to be an everyday player. No more of this platoon bullshit. It rarely works. I've seen the Reds make it work, but it is seriously hindering the development of young talent when they don't a run of games where they start everyday. You know how you feel that first day back to work after a week vacation? Where it takes you a while to get your bearings? Imagine being a baseball player and feeling like that with a 95 mph fastball coming at you.
[/quote]

1. Yes, Madson is off the books. But a ton of players get raises, including Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Bailey, etc. Votto's salary alone goes up 7.5M from 11.5 to 19M. That makes up for most of Madsons right there. Go to this link http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/10/24/reds-wont-be-a-free-agency-factor/. Reds already have 74M on the books and after the arbitration guys like Latos and Bailey, we will be above our 2012 salary before we even get to FA.
2. You mentioned going after a big bat in LF, and I think we might. But that big bat will likely be Ludwick at like 6-7 mil a year if we can even afford that.

Theres just no way we go out and spend 15M a year on a LF or any FA for that matter.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1352588453' post='1179249']
1. Yes, Madson is off the books. But a ton of players get raises, including Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Bailey, etc. Votto's salary alone goes up 7.5M from 11.5 to 19M. That makes up for most of Madsons right there. Go to this link [url="http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2012/10/24/reds-wont-be-a-free-agency-factor/."]http://cincinnati.co...agency-factor/.[/url] Reds already have 74M on the books and after the arbitration guys like Latos and Bailey, we will be above our 2012 salary before we even get to FA.
2. You mentioned going after a big bat in LF, and I think we might. But that big bat will likely be Ludwick at like 6-7 mil a year if we can even afford that.

Theres just no way we go out and spend 15M a year on a LF or any FA for that matter.
[/quote]

I think Ludwick will get more of a $4-6 million deal because he seemed to like in Cincinnati. He was born in Florida but after all his years with the Cardinals I would bet he has become a mid-west guy. What's sad, is other than Hamilton, the farm system is kind of bare when it comes to up and coming talent that can join the team out of training camp. Felix Perez? Mike Costanza? I think Chris Valaikia's ship has sailed. He might turn things around next year in the minors but as a third baseman he's been a disappointment.

By any chance is this pitcher related to Mark? [url="http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=444427"]Kanekoa Texeira[/url]

He's in the Red's farm system with the Riverbats.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352589104' post='1179252']
I think Ludwick will get more of a $4-6 million deal because he seemed to like in Cincinnati. He was born in Florida but after all his years with the Cardinals I would bet he has become a mid-west guy. What's sad, is other than Hamilton, the farm system is kind of bare when it comes to up and coming talent that can join the team out of training camp. Felix Perez? Mike Costanza? I think Chris Valaikia's ship has sailed. He might turn things around next year in the minors but as a third baseman he's been a disappointment.

By any chance is this pitcher related to Mark? [url="http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=444427"]Kanekoa Texeira[/url]

He's in the Red's farm system with the Riverbats.
[/quote]

I hope Ludwick takes a 4-5 mil deal, but I doubt he will settle for that little. This is his last chance to make some bucks in baseball. My point still stands that I doubt we spend more then a total of 10 mil on free agents this year, including Ludwick. 10M might be pushing it a little too.

[Jason]

Wasn't it a 5 million "deal" he turned down?

[JBandJoeyV]

Prospects that we could either use as trade bait or hope to make it to the majors within the next couple years...

Daniel Corcino P
Tony Cingrani P
Billy Hamilton OF
Didi Gregorious SS
Yorman Rodriguez OF
Henery Rodriguez OF
Neftali Soto IF

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1352589471' post='1179256']
Wasn't it a 5 million "deal" he turned down?
[/quote]

Yeah, a 1 year deal though. So I guess conceivably he could want a 2 year 10 Million deal.

My guess is he'll sign for closer to 2 years 13M, unless someone gives him a 3 year deal.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1352589303' post='1179253']
I hope Ludwick takes a 4-5 mil deal, but I doubt he will settle for that little. This is his last chance to make some bucks in baseball. My point still stands that I doubt we spend more then a total of 10 mil on free agents this year, including Ludwick. 10M might be pushing it a little too.
[/quote]

Bob Castellini and Jocketty have been more than willing to spend that extra money to back up this young pitching staff that won't be young forever. Didn't Jocketty even say in the middle of last year or at the last owners meeting the Reds were 'buyers' not 'sellers'?

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352589625' post='1179259']
Bob Castellini and Jocketty have been more than willing to spend that extra money to back up this young pitching staff that won't be young forever. Didn't Jocketty even say in the middle of last year or at the last owners meeting the Reds were 'buyers' not 'sellers'?
[/quote]

Yeah, but you can be a buyer on a guy like denard span that makes like 4 mil a year or something. Big difference then being a buyer on a 15M a year guy like Ethier.

Once again, without any free agents, we are already going to be in the 88M or so range. I highly, highly doubt we are going to go over 100M in payroll in 2013. Guys like John Fay agree if you read that article. I would be shocked if they got an expensive player at all this offseason whether it be in FA or through a trade.

A successful offseason IMO would be resigning ludwick, 2 years 11-13M or so. Trade or sign a stop gap CF that can lead off. Likely just a 1 year guy. Then sign a reliever or two. If you end up with a closer, you can look at moving Chapman to SP. If not just let him close again.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1352589916' post='1179262']
Yeah, but you can be a buyer on a guy like denard span that makes like 4 mil a year or something. Big difference then being a buyer on a 15M a year guy like Ethier.

Once again, without any free agents, we are already going to be in the 88M or so range. I highly, highly doubt we are going to go over 100M in payroll in 2013. Guys like John Fay agree if you read that article. I would be shocked if they got an expensive player at all this offseason whether it be in FA or through a trade.

A successful offseason IMO would be resigning ludwick, 2 years 11-13M or so. Trade or sign a stop gap CF that can lead off. Likely just a 1 year guy. Then sign a reliever or two. If you end up with a closer, you can look at moving Chapman to SP. If not just let him close again.
[/quote]

So from what you are saying, you would be happy with signing Ludwick, Hunter Pence, and Broxton? Free agency over and sign extensions!!!

Oakland pretty much fucked it up for small market fans this year. With their penny pinching payroll and success, they have every GM licking their chops thinking they can be the next Hudini. The Reds were 17th last year, and that was about 40% of the Yankees top payroll. Oakland was like 25% of the Yankee's payroll.

If the Reds signed the three guys I mentioned, and left the farm system intact without giving up young talent, I would be happy with that.

[url="http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries/teams"]http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries/teams[/url]