T-Dub Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Heard the same arguments when minimum wage was being increased to something halfway reasonable. If a company cuts jobs because employees have access to healthcare they are the ones at fault; I don't blame the policy. On a broader scale, I'm sick of hearing how not subsidizing planet-raping industries for the last few drops of oil/natural gas/etc is wrong because they would create new jobs. Crackwhore is a job, too. Some things are more important than how many people you would hire in order to open your whorehouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352176369' post='1178075'] I don't live in Canada, and I have talked some Canadian people, but never for a long time. The one bad thing I was told about their health care system, is sometimes it is hard to get in for procedures like MRIs and CAT scans. Sometimes it may 2 months or more. Other than that, they said it was a good program. In the U.S., if a person doesn't have insurance, they can not be denied treatment in the emergency room at a hospital. In fact there are several hospitals out there that have pay scale programs, where a patient pays a certain percentage of their bill according to how much money they make. This goes for procedures like MRI's, colonoscopies, etc.. If you don't have insurance and you have certain medicines you have to take, there are programs out there that will get your medicine for free or at a very discounted price. One of those programs is private, while other programs are straight from the pharmaceutical companies themselves. One medicine I get is Cymbalta for skeletal muscle pain. It normal cost $100 a bottle. Another medicine I take is Neurotin. The bottles they send me would cost about $100 or more each as well. So if you need it, and you look hard enough, it's out there. Who knows if that will be true or not ones these laws take effect. [/quote] Not for everyone, and many, many people are bankrupted over lack of insurance in the USA (or even [i]insufficient [/i]insurance) for major procedures. The wait times in UHC countries like Canada are generally organized fairly, giving the most health-threatening procedures precedence, as it should be. It's not like you are going to show up at a Canadian ER while undergoing a heart attack and being told to wait a couple months. The meme you are repeating is maddening. YES, they pay more per capita in taxes for that privledge, but SO FUCKING WHAT OF IT? It's the way governments SHOULD be run...you know...caring for it's citizens FIRST over having a defense budget as the ONLY superpower that fights NOBODY that sucks up so many tax dollars? What a novel idea.[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1352176902' post='1178078'] Heard the same arguments when minimum wage was being increased to something halfway reasonable. If a company cuts jobs because employees have access to healthcare they are the ones at fault; I don't blame the policy. On a broader scale, I'm sick of hearing how not subsidizing planet-raping industries for the last few drops of oil/natural gas/etc is wrong because they would create new jobs. Crackwhore is a job, too. Some things are more important than how many people you would hire in order to open your whorehouse. [/quote] What's funny is Canada has UHC AND is sucking the Earth for the last few drops of oil. HOW DO THEY MANAGE THAT?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1352176902' post='1178078'] Heard the same arguments when minimum wage was being increased to something halfway reasonable. If a company cuts jobs because employees have access to healthcare they are the ones at fault; I don't blame the policy. On a broader scale, I'm sick of hearing how not subsidizing planet-raping industries for the last few drops of oil/natural gas/etc is wrong because they would create new jobs. Crackwhore is a job, too. Some things are more important than how many people you would hire in order to open your whorehouse. [/quote] That's just it, this new law isn't going to hurt big business. It's going to hurt the small businesses that have over 50 employees. I also posted an article in one of these threads showing the U.S. has produced and exported the most oil as it ever has. In 2011 the U.S. exported more gasoline than they imported for the first time since 1949. Haven't you wondered why oil hasn't been a key component of this campaign? Neither side has brought up the environment, except Obama bashing mining for coal and processing it. Obama will not carry Kentucky as a state, barring a miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352177284' post='1178081'] That's just it, this new law isn't going to hurt big business. It's going to hurt the small businesses that have over 50 employees. I also posted an article in one of these threads showing the U.S. has produced and exported the most oil as it ever has. In 2011 the U.S. exported more gasoline than they imported for the first time since 1949. Haven't you wondered why oil hasn't been a key component of this campaign? Neither side has brought up the environment, except Obama bashing mining for coal and processing it. Obama will not carry Kentucky as a state, barring a miracle. [/quote] Oil is a globally traded commodity on the world markets, so no matter how much of it we produce, it isn't going to alter prices per barrel as it's funneled into Wall Street, and hence, subject to speculation, so unless we go rogue and decide to not import any oil and rely on our own production (suicide), we are stuck with what we have...and as the biggest user of oil on the planet....we will remain a net importer of oil, even though we produce so much of it. And as for refineries, please cite for me when the last US refinery was built. It's been a long, long time, IIRC. Thanks ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1352177048' post='1178080'] Not for everyone, and many, many people are bankrupted over lack of insurance in the USA (or even [i]insufficient [/i]insurance) for major procedures. The wait times in UHC countries like Canada are generally organized fairly, giving the most health-threatening procedures precedence, as it should be. It's not like you are going to show up at a Canadian ER while undergoing a heart attack and being told to wait a couple months. The meme you are repeating is maddening. YES, they pay more per capita in taxes for that privledge, but SO FUCKING WHAT OF IT? It's the way governments SHOULD be run...you know...caring for it's citizens FIRST over having a defense budget as the ONLY superpower that fights NOBODY that sucks up so many tax dollars? What a novel idea. [/quote] I had yet to see people mention that there is already ways out there to get healthcare without Obama's health care law. What better way than using some reference to my own experiences? Your role of government and what was intended just aren't the same. Not saying yours isn't a good idea, but the point of the United States was to give people the freedom to do as they please while not offending the rights of others. States would have their own laws and handle different problems as they arose. Eventually because of slavery that whole concept changed. The more you go towards taking higher wage taxes, that go towards things that big business don't care for, like national healthcare plans, the more companies are going to move out of the U.S. to other countries. Either that, or the number of full time employees will be replaced with contracted employees from places like CBS and other personnel services. No matter how it works out, big businesses are going to find away around this law and pass the buck to the employees that no longer getting full time hours and then have to buy insurance from the government on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1352177741' post='1178083'] Oil is a globally traded commodity on the world markets, so no matter how much of it we produce, it isn't going to alter prices per barrel as it's funneled into Wall Street, and hence, subject to speculation, so unless we go rogue and decide to not import any oil and rely on our own production (suicide), we are stuck with what we have...and as the biggest user of oil on the planet....we will remain a net importer of oil, even though we produce so much of it. And as for refineries, please cite for me when the last US refinery was built. It's been a long, long time, IIRC. Thanks ahead of time. [/quote] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-29/u-s-was-net-oil-product-exporter-in-2011.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 OPEC actually got worried about the amount of oil the U.S. has started producing. If things keep pace the U.S. will be the top oil producer in the world. [url="http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/10/us-oil-boom-soon-to-be-top-producer/"]http://abcnews.go.co...e-top-producer/[/url] The Last Oil refinery in the U.S. was built in 2008. [url="http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6"]http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352177746' post='1178084'] I had yet to see people mention that there is already ways out there to get healthcare without Obama's health care law. What better way than using some reference to my own experiences? Your role of government and what was intended just aren't the same. Not saying yours isn't a good idea, but the point of the United States was to give people the freedom to do as they please while not offending the rights of others. States would have their own laws and handle different problems as they arose. Eventually because of slavery that whole concept changed. The more you go towards taking higher wage taxes, that go towards things that big business don't care for, like national healthcare plans, the more companies are going to move out of the U.S. to other countries. Either that, or the number of full time employees will be replaced with contracted employees from places like CBS and other personnel services. No matter how it works out, big businesses are going to find away around this law and pass the buck to the employees that no longer getting full time hours and then have to buy insurance from the government on top of that. [/quote] But big businesses have ALREADY moved out of this country to maximize profits for shareholders and CEO's WAY before any of this UHC "nonsense" was even an issue! I am unclear what you are arguing, On the one hand you make it sound as if "hey, look at me, I am disabled and if you look hard enough, you can find your benefits" and on the other you are opposing a Presidential nominee that will actually make your struggle [i]easier[/i], not harder. You cannot have it both ways. Look: taxes pay for a lot of things....I think we can agree that a large portion of those tax expenditures at the federal and state level go towards laws and things that are passed that we can all find equal footing on in terms of why the money is being spent and how. But I just don't get the resistance to UHC, ESPECIALLY from someone like YOU. Your goal of easing your pain and ensuring your healthful existence under a UHC plan would be SO much easier than the things you describe now. You are ascribing a huge amount of Fox News bugaboos to a plan that has been proven to work in countries with less than an eighth of our GDP, and if we could actually manage to draw down even a miniscule amount of our defense spending, it would pay for itself in terms of healthy, productive citizens. Do I need to point out the example of Germany? Anyway, answer this: what is the primary goal of a government's existence? (and for the sake of argument, pretend we are a regular country and not some domineering, meddling would-be "superpower"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352177817' post='1178085'] [url="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-29/u-s-was-net-oil-product-exporter-in-2011.html"]http://www.bloomberg...er-in-2011.html[/url] [/quote] [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352177940' post='1178086'] OPEC actually got worried about the amount of oil the U.S. has started producing. If things keep pace the U.S. will be the top oil producer in the world. [url="http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/10/us-oil-boom-soon-to-be-top-producer/"]http://abcnews.go.co...e-top-producer/[/url] The Last Oil refinery in the U.S. was built in 2008. [url="http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6"]http://www.eia.gov/t...q.cfm?id=29&t=6[/url] [/quote] Again, none of those things matter to you and me in terms of what we pay at the pump. It's a globally traded commodity, and our usage outstrips what we can produce. We are a net importer of oil and always will be, and as such, will pay prices set by the speculations of Wall Street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I may disabled now, I haven't always been. I'm going to get disability not SSI, because I worked enough to earn my rights. That doesn't mean I will continue to be on disability all my life. I have enough credit to have a degree in Sociology, but Miami of Ohio had a foreign language requirement that in order to get my degree I had to have taken two 200 level classes. I had two three years of French in high school and 2 quarters of Latin at OSU. So I was going to have to start all over. Now, when I transfer to another school, I have to do at least a year there in order for them to give me a diploma. The reason I was pointing these things out, where you can get help with your healthcare, is because it shows that Obama's program is not the end all. People can get help if they need it bad enough and look hard enough. I hate depending on other people, but when you don't have family out there that can watch your back when you need it, you can't just lay around and die right? The programs I am describing actually having nothing to do with the government. The reason for the government is to create a sovereign group of states and commonwealths, to have a central government that can oversee the safety and security of those said states and to provide an a nationwide economic system based on capitalism and free trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1352178645' post='1178089'] Again, none of those things matter to you and me in terms of what we pay at the pump. It's a globally traded commodity, and our usage outstrips what we can produce. We are a net importer of oil and always will be, and as such, will pay prices set by the speculations of Wall Street. [/quote] I'm not worried about what we pay at the pump today, if the government continues to export oil it can pay down the national debt. So the Democratic party that was so behind Al Gore and his Green initiative, and today Obama is in the White House pumping out more oil than ever. And I find your refinery answer in like 30 seconds and you didn't give me credit. :sigh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352179095' post='1178090'] I may disabled now, I haven't always been. I'm going to get disability not SSI, because I worked enough to earn my rights. That doesn't mean I will continue to be on disability all my life. I have enough credit to have a degree in Sociology, but Miami of Ohio had a foreign language requirement that in order to get my degree I had to have taken two 200 level classes. I had two three years of French in high school and 2 quarters of Latin at OSU. So I was going to have to start all over. Now, when I transfer to another school, I have to do at least a year there in order for them to give me a diploma. The reason I was pointing these things out, where you can get help with your healthcare, is because it shows that Obama's program is not the end all. People can get help if they need it bad enough and look hard enough. I hate depending on other people, but when you don't have family out there that can watch your back when you need it, you can't just lay around and die right? The programs I am describing actually having nothing to do with the government. The reason for the government is to create a sovereign group of states and commonwealths, to have a central government that can oversee the safety and security of those said states and to provide an a nationwide economic system based on capitalism and free trade. [/quote] Not getting a diploma is your own fault, and as to your second part...what? That's the reason for the government in your eyes? You sound like a secessionist from the Civil War. [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352179219' post='1178091'] I'm not worried about what we pay at the pump today, if the government continues to export oil it can pay down the national debt. So the Democratic party that was so behind Al Gore and his Green initiative, and today Obama is in the White House pumping out more oil than ever. And I find your refinery answer in like 30 seconds and you didn't give me credit. :sigh: [/quote] Refinery answer? Lew....it isn't about the refined product, its about the unrefined goop that comes out of the ground that is immediately earmarked for global consumption. And not worried about what we pay? You should be. Do you have a concept of what other countries pay for gas? Why does the UK pay $9 a gallon and the USA only $4? Hint: it's a Wal Mart bulk discount that's getting less and less viable as the speculators on Wall Street (whom are NOT all representatives or citizens or corporations aligned with the USA, by the way) buy more and more of it for China and India. Get a grip, man. Not everything is a conspiracy. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 No, it's not my own fault. You jumped to a conclusion. I was working full time and going to school full time when in the middle of my second semester my dad died, and a week later I was in a horrible car accident that screwed up my back. I dropped out that semester because I was too far behind. Miami then sent me a later saying they paid me $700 too much financial aid and unless I paid that back to them in full, I couldn't enroll for summer courses. I had been off work for like 2 months and only getting 40% or something like that of my check. It didn't include commissions, that normal was a big part of my pay. I couldn't pay it back, I couldn't enroll. It wasn't my fault, it was theirs. They won't release my transcripts until I get the money I owe them. Without those transcripts I can't enroll anywhere. So no, it wasn't my fault. You asked: [quote]And as for refineries, please cite for me when the last US refinery was built. It's been a long, long time, IIRC. Thanks ahead of time. [/quote] I answered, it was 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352180306' post='1178095'] No, it's not my own fault. You jumped to a conclusion. I was working full time and going to school full time when in the middle of my second semester my dad died, and a week later I was in a horrible car accident that screwed up my back. I dropped out that semester because I was too far behind. Miami then sent me a later saying they paid me $700 too much financial aid and unless I paid that back to them in full, I couldn't enroll for summer courses. I had been off work for like 2 months and only getting 40% or something like that of my check. It didn't include commissions, that normal was a big part of my pay. I couldn't pay it back, I couldn't enroll. It wasn't my fault, it was theirs. They won't release my transcripts until I get the money I owe them. Without those transcripts I can't enroll anywhere. So no, it wasn't my fault. You asked: I answered, it was 2008. [/quote] I am sorry about your Dad, bro, and your accident. You know what prompted mine (and many others) BS meter? It was in that thread about your roommate dying where you stated "You were both waiting for disability settlements...he had just gotten his (large-ish) settlement and I was waiting for mine" or something to that effect. I think that a lot of the animosity towards you generated from that post as you made it sound as if you were entitled to something (and the unlikely fact that TWO people were roommates BOTH awaiting supposedly large insurance settlements) that got some things off on the wrong foot. Perhaps unjust assumptions were made....but you certainly didn't help your cause, if you even care about it, either. Your political stance in light of those things makes it even more confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Oh, and as far as oil refineries are concerned, you might want to take a look at this link in terms of production (which is all that really matters to us consumers): [url="http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6"]http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 It's ok, we all have rough patches in our lives right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1352181527' post='1178099'] Oh, and as far as oil refineries are concerned, you might want to take a look at this link in terms of production (which is all that really matters to us consumers): [url="http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6"]http://www.eia.gov/t...q.cfm?id=29&t=6[/url] [/quote] I'll tell you what stands out the most, Texas hasn't got shit on offshore oil and Alaska. Those jumps from the year they were built until now is unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352182089' post='1178102'] I'll tell you what stands out the most, Texas hasn't got shit on offshore oil and Alaska. Those jumps from the year they were built until now is unreal. [/quote] But Texas has EVERYTHING on refineries! Why do you think that despite the gigantic oil pipeline and general poverty that Alaska has really high gas prices (hell, prices on everything!)? Because the massive amounts of oil piped FROM Alaska TO Texas is REFINED in Texas into gasoline, which then has to be TRUCKED BACK TO ALASKA (at great risk during certain time of the year, and at great distances)?? I thought everyone knew that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1352182459' post='1178104'] But Texas has EVERYTHING on refineries! Why do you think that despite the gigantic oil pipeline and general poverty that Alaska has really high gas prices (hell, prices on everything!)? Because the massive amounts of oil piped FROM Alaska TO Texas is REFINED in Texas into gasoline, which then has to be TRUCKED BACK TO ALASKA (at great risk during certain time of the year, and at great distances)?? I thought everyone knew that? [/quote] I thought Alaska was a lot like it is here in Kentucky. There are several land owners that get free Natural Gas, and a check each month in the mail. Don't all Alaskan citizens get a yearly or monthly dividend from the government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Here is an article oddly, from today. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/20/alaska-oil-wealth-checks_n_972489.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352182915' post='1178106'] Here is an article oddly, from today. [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/20/alaska-oil-wealth-checks_n_972489.html"]http://www.huffingto...s_n_972489.html[/url] [/quote] Relevant quote from your article (due to refining and transportation costs): [color=#000000][font=Arial,]While the extra money is a great perk, it doesn't always go far in a state where some rural residents pay $7 or more a gallon for gasoline and one study showed food costs for a week could run into the hundreds of dollars for a family of four.[/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 True, very true. Just think of these two things. First we are sitting here talking about this, and the article is from today. How odd was that? Secondly, when is the last time you remember and election where oil and the environment aren't two key parts of the campaign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352184452' post='1178111'] True, very true. Just think of these two things. First we are sitting here talking about this, and the article is from today. How odd was that? Secondly, when is the last time you remember and election where oil and the environment aren't two key parts of the campaign? [/quote] Because its status quo, the supply hasn't been interrupted on the refineries by a hurricane, demand is down, the hurricane can't be politicized by those with a brain...and because pickles? **obligatory Spongebob reference** Also....nobody cares about gas prices right now. If that hurricane had hit Galveston again it would be a different story as refineries would have been shuttered, if even for a short time. Are you understanding how gas prices work yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Yahoo did have an article that said there were like 6-8 oil tankers in New York Harbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352184886' post='1178114'] Yahoo did have an article that said there were like 6-8 oil tankers in New York Harbor. [/quote] A miniscule part of the supply chain! Stop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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