bengalrick Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 I really, really hope that both parties can work together and make things work. I hope rep's members of congress are listening to me, if Obama wins. We are tired of the partisanship!!! There are huge issues that cannot be ignored any more. Good luck to both candidates and may the better candidate win!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 The problem is both parties think what the other wants to do is bad for the country. How can you work with someone you think is doing something wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Tomorrow, birds are going to sing, 7-11 will be open, and my farts will smell as bad as ever...no matter who is President. The only difference might be how much a full tank of gas and a Red Bull will cost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1352227553' post='1178215'] The problem is both parties think what the other wants to do is bad for the country. [b]How can you work with someone you think is doing something wrong?[/b] [/quote] They swallow some pride and acknowledge that ALL of their ideas aren't always correct. I agree with Rick but I thought this was going to be fill in the blank: No matter who wins tonight...my Facebook feed will be hours of entertainment. I'm looking forward to so much veiled racism and boastful ignorance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1352228145' post='1178220'] No matter who wins tonight...my Facebook feed will be hours of entertainment. I'm looking forward to so much veiled racism and boastful ignorance! [/quote] No doubt! Friends of both leanings will be on there spouting their bullshit about how "great" so and so is... puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1352229211' post='1178229'] No doubt! Friends of both leanings will be on there spouting their bullshit about how "great" so and so is... puke. [/quote] I'm most likely going to be avoiding the internet and live television just on general principle. I'll just wake up tomorrow and see who won. Unless it's another Shrub v Gore election... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1352232799' post='1178251'] I'm most likely going to be avoiding the internet and live television just on general principle. I'll just wake up tomorrow and see who won. [b]Unless it's another Shrub v Gore election... [/b] [/quote] This is what I worry about more than either one winning, TBH... just don't want to deal with the prolonged BS. The news folk will absolutely be creaming themselves if that happened. And I'd be sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Jason' timestamp='1352227553' post='1178215'] The problem is both parties think what the other wants to do is bad for the country. How can you work with someone you think is doing something wrong? [/quote] Lets take Obamacare for an example. Unfortunately the lines are drawn on both sides for that one in particular, but I think it can still be used as an example of what I hope would happen. Anyone with at least some heart can find good things about Obamacare. There are things that are undoubtedly good for the people. If both sides would have handled that better, then the bill would be a lot better. Instead Rep's decided it was in their best interest to not work with Dem's and Dem's decided they had the votes and to screw the other side. All the pushing and shoving got the bill done and almost nobody is happy about it. Is that really what we want our political system to look like? I sure don't. If Obama wins, I hope that we can start working in a more bipartisanship way so that the good ideas will prevail instead of letting the ideas of the most powerful party prevail... I think it goes without saying that I hope the Democrats also work with Romney if he is elected. But one thing I've learned from being married is that if you want the other side to concede anything, you need to look at yourself (or your party) and start to figure out what you are doing wrong. If both sides start to do that, we all win. My marriage surely has... Not saying this is hard because I agree with you Jason. But concessions on both sides are absolutely vital no matter which side wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1352228145' post='1178220'] They swallow some pride and acknowledge that ALL of their ideas aren't always correct. I agree with Rick but I thought this was going to be fill in the blank: No matter who wins tonight...my Facebook feed will be hours of entertainment. I'm looking forward to so much veiled racism and boastful ignorance! [/quote] No matter who wins tonight, I am going to put my head back in the sand for a little bit... I need another break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1352235398' post='1178268'] Lets take Obamacare for an example. Unfortunately the lines are drawn on both sides for that one in particular, but I think it can still be used as an example of what I hope would happen. Anyone with at least some heart can find good things about Obamacare. There are things that are undoubtedly good for the people. If both sides would have handled that better, then the bill would be a lot better. Instead Rep's decided it was in their best interest to not work with Dem's and Dem's decided they had the votes and to screw the other side. All the pushing and shoving got the bill done and almost nobody is happy about it. Is that really what we want our political system to look like? I sure don't. If Obama wins, I hope that we can start working in a more bipartisanship way so that the good ideas will prevail instead of letting the ideas of the most powerful party prevail... I think it goes without saying that I hope the Democrats also work with Romney if he is elected. But one thing I've learned from being married is that if you want the other side to concede anything, you need to look at yourself (or your party) and start to figure out what you are doing wrong. If both sides start to do that, we all win. My marriage surely has... Not saying this is hard because I agree with you Jason. But concessions on both sides are absolutely vital no matter which side wins. [/quote] Good thing about Obamacare - (Not necessarily 'free' health care) for everyone. Bad thing about Obamacare - Losing hours and wages at work, having to get a second job, and having to pay insurance premiums to the government for (Not necessarily 'free' health care). You're right in the sense that not [i]everything[/i] is bad about it. So out of curiosity, who here already has a full time job that provides insurance?...and thus could care less about Obamacare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352236810' post='1178275'] Good thing about Obamacare - (Not necessarily 'free' health care) for everyone. Bad thing about Obamacare - Losing hours and wages at work, having to get a second job, and having to pay insurance premiums to the government for (Not necessarily 'free' health care). You're right in the sense that not [i]everything[/i] is bad about it. So out of curiosity, who here already has a full time job that provides insurance?...and thus could care less about Obamacare? [/quote] I do and love my insurance. I have had an HSA account and high deductible insurance for about 5 years now and I absolutely love it. I think HSA's would have been a great negotiating tool for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352236810' post='1178275'] Good thing about Obamacare - (Not necessarily 'free' health care) for everyone. Bad thing about Obamacare - Losing hours and wages at work, having to get a second job, and having to pay insurance premiums to the government for (Not necessarily 'free' health care). You're right in the sense that not [i]everything[/i] is bad about it. So out of curiosity, who here already has a full time job that provides insurance?...and thus could care less about Obamacare? [/quote] My insurance is provided through my employer and solid so the Affordable Care Act will have little bearing on me. My wife does have a chronic condition that would have been considered a pre-existing condition and likely eliminated her from any future coverage (if she lost her job) so I'm glad that whole loophole is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1352237428' post='1178279'] My insurance is provided through my employer and solid so the Affordable Care Act will have little bearing on me. My wife does have a chronic condition that would have been considered a pre-existing condition and likely eliminated her from any future coverage (if she lost her job) so I'm glad that whole loophole is gone. [/quote] The biggest win (by far) in my opinion about Obamacare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1352236960' post='1178277'] I do and love my insurance. I have had an HSA account and high deductible insurance for about 5 years now and I absolutely love it. I think HSA's would have been a great negotiating tool for both sides. [/quote] Sorry Rick, I'm not trying to harp on this subject too much, but what do you see as the benefit of this plan? From what it was touted, it was supposed to help the middle class by making it so employees that worked in small business with over 50 people, HAD to provide healthcare to it's employees. During all this time, did the bureaucrats not see the loophole that was going to switch all the pressure from the businesses to the workers? Under this law you HAVE to have your family covered either through work, or through the government. If you don't have it, you can be fined. So how does that help Sandy at the I-Hop who has two kids and takes online classes, when her employer tells her she getting cut 10 hours, and the government sends her a letter asking for $100 of her money per month for healthcare on her and her two kids? How is this program helping? You can change the names, change the jobs, even change the number of kids, but it isn't going to change the final result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352237503' post='1178281'] Sorry Rick, I'm not trying to harp on this subject too much, but what do you see as the benefit of this plan? From what it was touted, it was supposed to help the middle class by making it so employees that worked in small business with over 50 people, HAD to provide healthcare to it's employees. During all this time, did the bureaucrats not see the loophole that was going to switch all the pressure from the businesses to the workers? Under this law you HAVE to have your family covered either through work, or through the government. If you don't have it, you can be fined. So how does that help Sandy at the I-Hop who has two kids and takes online classes, when her employer tells her she getting cut 10 hours, and the government sends her a letter asking for $100 of her money per month for healthcare on her and her two kids? How is this program helping? You can change the names, change the jobs, even change the number of kids, but it isn't going to change the final result. [/quote] Pre-existing conditions is the single biggest benefit. This should be a no-brainer really. It helps Sandy at ihop because it forces her to have insurance and budget around that. Health insurance (for someone with a family) is probably the single most important thing you can have. The problem with the way it is now is that if Sandy from iHop doesn't have insurance and her child gets sick and needs care, you and I pay for it... I'd have to go through the bill and look at it closer for more examples but forcing people to have something so important isn't a bad thing... I get pissed thinking about people that don't have insurance but they have a big screen TV and cable with every channel. This isn't everyone because there are plenty who are frugal with their money if need be but there are plenty of people that are 'struggling' yet they have smart phones with data plans too. And we're paying for their catastrophic health insurance when it happens because we are so generous of people. Here is an article with some of the good things that we should all agree are good things: [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wendell-potter/before-you-vote-fact-vs-f_b_2076701.html"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wendell-potter/before-you-vote-fact-vs-f_b_2076701.html[/url] [color=#000000][font=Georgia, Century, Times, serif][size=3] [i]Here are some things the law will do:[/i][/size][/font][/color][list] [*][i]It will prohibit insurance companies from refusing to sell coverage to people simply because they have one or more pre-existing conditions.[/i] [/list][list] [*][i]It will also prohibit them from canceling our coverage when we get sick just to avoid paying for our care.[/i] [/list][list] [*][i]It will prohibit insurers from charging women more than men for comparable coverage and will not allow them to charge older folks more than three times as much as younger folks.[/i] [/list][list] [*][i]It will require them to spend at least 80 percent of what we pay in premiums actually paying claims and improving care.[/i] [/list][list] [*][i]It will allow young adults -- who comprise the largest segment of the uninsured -- to stay on their parents' policies until age 26.[/i] [/list][list] [*][i]It [url="http://www.pop.psu.edu/news/2012/pri-researchers-pam-short-deb-graefe-discuss-health-insurance-coverage-gaps/view"]will reduce[/url] the number of uninsured Americans by at least 30 million if all the states agree to accept federal dollars to expand their Medicaid programs.[/i] [/list] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Rick, the problem with your whole argument, is that it makes it easy for Sandy to quit her job and live off the state. She would get free education, welfare, insurance for her and all her kids, food stamps, and more time with her kids. So this law just turned a hard working person who was studying for a better future, to woman who has nothing better to do than live off the state and try to find a man that has things in common with her. Not to get married to of coarse, that would ruin all the stuff she is getting. The government can porkbarrel and try to attach their own agendas to it all they want, but saying it helps the middle class is silly. If anything, this only helps the upper middle class. In fact, I would say it almost creates a new case altogether. Mothers & Fathers out there: Gee thanks America, we tried to get him out of our house yet you make us pay for his insurance? Doesn't the colleges offer insurance? [quote]It will allow young adults -- who comprise the largest segment of the uninsured -- to stay on their parents' policies until age 26.[/quote] You do make some good points Rick, but those things could have been put into legislation without building a whole new healthcare system. In fact, a big part of the additions you showed was only sugar on the top to get people like you in your situation to go for it. If you didn't have insurance through your work now, and had to choose between a car payment that gets you back and forth to work, the groceries, or school, would you be happy about being forced to buy your own insurance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 Let me give you a little story so you can see this isn't an agenda towards Obama and his health care plan. In 2003 I was working as full time Manager at the GNC in the Towne Mall in Middletown (actually Franklin Township) and going full time to school at Miami University of Middletown. You may, or may not know where those are. I only need 2 more semesters for my degree, and had just finished up my first semester there. It was February and I was working and taking classes, and my father past away. I took off a week to get my head together and to go to his funeral was way down in Adams County, Ohio. Well the last night before going back to work, I went to pick up pizzas and take them home, and some old man try to beat traffic and pulled right across in front of me. A cop saw the whole thing. Hell, the guy admitted it was his fault. It took 4 YEARS to get a settlememt out of the guy. I had 2 herniated discs causing spinal stenosis which the narrowing of the spine and pinching nerves causing pain. The guy was underinsured and had nothing but his retirement. The money I got covered my lawyers, 4 years of unpaid medical bills, money for back due personal stuff, and a little cash left over. Even though my back was jacked up, I continued to work through the pain full time. After that, I never stayed with a job for a full year to be eligible for benefits to cover a preexisting condition. So here I sit today with my back still screwed up and worse than ever. Point is, I lived through the life of the preexisting condition subject, I lived through the life of dealing with an underinsured driver, despite all that I would NEVER agree with this plan. It has too many loop holes and hurts too many people that are out there trying to work their way for a living. Why agree to something that isn't going to help those that help themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352238775' post='1178287'] You do make some good points Rick, but those things could have been put into legislation without building a whole new healthcare system. In fact, a big part of the additions you showed was only sugar on the top to get people like you in your situation to go for it. If you didn't have insurance through your work now, and had to choose between a car payment that gets you back and forth to work, the groceries, or school, would you be happy about being forced to buy your own insurance? [/quote] I might not be clear here but i was basically saying this. There are a lot of really good things with the new law, but imo we didn't need to redo the whole system. Only fill in places and work on figuring out the best way to cut costs. For me, HSA has made me more diligent in cost savings where most people with traditional insurances only care about what they owe. I care about what the doctor or pharmacy is charging me. As far as Sally from iHop, I don't think it is going to force her into welfare. I have no data to back it up, but I doubt you have any that will prove it would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1352240477' post='1178293'] I might not be clear here but i was basically saying this. There are a lot of really good things with the new law, but imo we didn't need to redo the whole system. Only fill in places and work on figuring out the best way to cut costs. For me, HSA has made me more diligent in cost savings where most people with traditional insurances only care about what they owe. I care about what the doctor or pharmacy is charging me. As far as Sally from iHop, I don't think it is going to force her into welfare. I have no data to back it up, but I doubt you have any that will prove it would happen. [/quote] I really don't have to have data to back up her position. Let's do it this way, before and after. Without Obamacare, Sally works 40 hours a week at I-Hop, gets health insurance, and makes enough money to cover bills and provide for her family. In fact because Saly is a single mom with kids she gets some food stamps each month. Sally takes online courses at home hoping to someday be a radiology technician. Sally is reasonably happy. With Obamacare, Sally finds out her hours are getting cut, I-Hop can't afford to pay so many employees benefits at a percentage the government is forcing them to. Sally drives home and find a letter in the mail from the government detailing the Obamacare plan. It says that if Sandy isn't getting health care through her work, she has to pay them $100 a month to cover her and her two kids in a structured government health care plan. Sandy's bummed and wondering what to do because not only is she get letting money in wages, but has to pay $100 a month for free government health care? Sally talks to her friend Mary and finds out that if she quits working of claims she can't, she can get a welfare check, $500 in food stamps a month, HUD that could pay her rent and part of her utilities, college assistance if she wants, AND absolutely free health care for her and her two kids. What do you think Sally is going to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352241477' post='1178310'] I really don't have to have data to back up her position. Let's do it this way, before and after. Without Obamacare, Sally works 40 hours a week at I-Hop, gets health insurance, and makes enough money to cover bills and provide for her family. In fact because Saly is a single mom with kids she gets some food stamps each month. Sally takes online courses at home hoping to someday be a radiology technician. Sally is reasonably happy. With Obamacare, Sally finds out her hours are getting cut, I-Hop can't afford to pay so many employees benefits at a percentage the government is forcing them to. Sally drives home and find a letter in the mail from the government detailing the Obamacare plan. It says that if Sandy isn't getting health care through her work, she has to pay them $100 a month to cover her and her two kids in a structured government health care plan. Sandy's bummed and wondering what to do because not only is she get letting money in wages, but has to pay $100 a month for free government health care? Sally talks to her friend Mary and finds out that if she quits working of claims she can't, she can get a welfare check, $500 in food stamps a month, HUD that could pay her rent and part of her utilities, college assistance if she wants, AND absolutely free health care for her and her two kids. What do you think Sally is going to do? [/quote] You lost me... why is iHop going to cut hours? I thought we were assuming she didn't have insurance and this was forcing her to budget for that extra expense? What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1352241757' post='1178313'] You lost me... why is iHop going to cut hours? I thought we were assuming she didn't have insurance and this was forcing her to budget for that extra expense? What am I missing here? [/quote] Either she doesn't have insurance and go to a free clinic that is based on household/income ratio, or they offer insurance but it's only with such a high deductible a lot of people can't afford it. Or it's like the insurance they offered me at Finishline where if you or leg get's cut off they give you a shiny silver dollar. So just say the insurance they offer isn't up to the Law's standards. That part really doesn't matter. I thought I said it here, but maybe it was not clear [quote]I-Hop can't afford to pay so many employees benefits at a percentage the government is forcing them to.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted November 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1352242006' post='1178316'] Either she doesn't have insurance and go to a free clinic that is based on household/income ratio, or they offer insurance but it's only with such a high deductible a lot of people can't afford it. Or it's like the insurance they offered me at Finishline where if you or leg get's cut off they give you a shiny silver dollar. So just say the insurance they offer isn't up to the Law's standards. That part really doesn't matter. I thought I said it here, but maybe it was not clear [/quote] sometimes its hard to multitask... I try to not get on here while at work but I am guilty of doing that today. I tend to read things too quickly while I do that... Especially when I have a nice rack of hooters tits staring back to anyone who is eavesdropping on me Leaving though and should have more time to address this when I get home. Remember though, for the most part you and I are in agreement. My whole premise of this thread is to say that we need to compromise and swallow some pills we don't like, in order to get some things we do like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1352242276' post='1178317'] sometimes its hard to multitask... I try to not get on here while at work but I am guilty of doing that today. I tend to read things too quickly while I do that... Especially when I have a nice rack of hooters tits staring back to anyone who is eavesdropping on me Leaving though and should have more time to address this when I get home. Remember though, for the most part you and I are in agreement. My whole premise of this thread is to say that we need to compromise and swallow some pills we don't like, in order to get some things we do like. [/quote] Oh most definitely there are good provisions, and I think all and all what happened hear, is that Obama and the legislature felt under a time constraint to put out a finished product. The closer it got to election time that harder it would be for them to conservatives to go for it. Ultimately then ended up enacting a law that has way too many loopholes in it. It's makes me wonder if it will fail, be successful, or somehow get so tied up it never comes to fruition. I read it might be going up in front of the Supreme Court again soon. I'd post it, but it is from Fox News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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