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Who has guns?


eva4ben-gal

Who has guns?  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you have a gun?

    • No
      16
    • Yes
      12
    • Multiple guns
      7
    • I own an assault rifle
      4


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[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1356228203' post='1196411']
People owning guns did not CAUSE this problem, and the reasons for people owning guns are legion and far exceed your assertion that they are just "for fun". You don't even know what you're talking about. How dare you presume to speak for others from your ivory tower of all that is holy and good?
[/quote]

Automatic or assault rifles are just for fun.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1356228986' post='1196414']
Automatic or assault rifles are just for fun.
[/quote]

Automatic rifles are and have been outlawed for civilian use and speaking as someone that is formerly military that has actually fired a few of them, they are wasteful of ammo and totally inaccurate. Did you not read [b]Orange n Black's[/b] post about how it is likely that if this Lansky piece of worthless dung had actually had access to a fully auto rifle that he likely would have killed LESS people than he did? It's a completely logical conclusion. Full auto fire from small arms is (in a military setting) best utilized as cover fire for troop movement, as in "it'll keep the enemy's heads down while we maneuver". The rifle has severe tendencies to drift upwards during auto fire, not to mention that in full auto, you are expending your 30 round mag in seconds.

And I remain unconvinced that you even know what an "assault rifle" even is...if it looks scary, BAN IT!
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[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1356230185' post='1196417']
Automatic rifles are and have been outlawed for civilian use and speaking as someone that is formerly military that has actually fired a few of them, they are wasteful of ammo and totally inaccurate. Did you not read [b]Orange n Black's[/b] post about how it is likely that if this Lansky piece of worthless dung had actually had access to a fully auto rifle that he likely would have killed LESS people than he did? It's a completely logical conclusion. Full auto fire from small arms is (in a military setting) best utilized as cover fire for troop movement, as in "it'll keep the enemy's heads down while we maneuver". The rifle has severe tendencies to drift upwards during auto fire, not to mention that in full auto, you are expending your 30 round mag in seconds.

And I remain unconvinced that you even know what an "assault rifle" even is...if it looks scary, BAN IT!
[/quote]

I am pretty sure that the killer in that case shot them point blank in the face, so I don't think it really matters. I think that the culture of guns that has 88 guns for every 100 persons is what really matters. These types of guns are symbols of that culture.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1356233240' post='1196428']
I am pretty sure that the killer in that case shot them point blank in the face, so I don't think it really matters. I think that the culture of guns that has 88 guns for every 100 persons is what really matters. These types of guns are symbols of that culture.
[/quote]

I think the fact that this guy was batshit insane, like you appear to be, and STOLE legal weapons from his mother whom he subsequently murdered, puts the lie to your statement.
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[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1356235178' post='1196430']
I think the fact that this guy was batshit insane, like you appear to be, and STOLE legal weapons from his mother whom he subsequently murdered, puts the lie to your statement.
[/quote]

I will go back to ignoring you. You're a moron. And I am butthurt because someone disagrees with me being a sanctimonious, judgemental prick.
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[quote name='BengalBacker' timestamp='1356260136' post='1196460']
Here are my three most recent purchases.

[url="http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=84697"]http://www.ableammo....oducts_id=84697[/url]

[url="http://policelink.monster.com/products/products/418-smith-wesson-sigma-40ve"]http://policelink.mo...sson-sigma-40ve[/url]

[url="http://www.ruger.com/products/miniThirty/specSheets/5806.html"]http://www.ruger.com...heets/5806.html[/url]


Wish I had a facebook account.
[/quote]

I think that you are really cool and strong and a worthwhile person.
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[quote name='BengalBacker' timestamp='1356286687' post='1196623']
Thank you, now I don't have to make a facebook page!
[/quote]

That was my point. LOL. Facebook is so unbelievably narcissistic. People live outwardly to fill holes they have inwardly.

You know I really don't care if you have any kind of gun you want. And me talking about people doing it out of paranoia and low self esteem is my opinion....but I do plenty of stupid things out of low self esteem and paranoia. My biggest issue with this whole thing, is that you don't need it, and because you get to have it and fight for it then dangerous people also get to have it.
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[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1356287537' post='1196688']
Its crazy to me that there are so many guns in America and that I can buy this....

[url="http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=21677320"]http://www.walmart.c...uct_id=21677320[/url]

At wal-mart.
[/quote]

Why, because it looks like a scary movie gun? The VAST majority of gun crime in this country is committed via handguns (including Virginia Tech, the deadliest mass shooting in recent memory). In fact I would venture to say that homicide via "assault rifle" is very nearly exclusive to this VERY rare sort of mass shooting.

I understand you don't like guns but you are SERIOUSLY not seeing the forest for the trees. The amount of gun violence that would be controlled by banning AR-15s and the like is so negligible it's probably statistically irrelevant.
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[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1356230185' post='1196417']
Automatic rifles are and have been outlawed for civilian use ...[/quote]

The short answer is no. As a civilian and one person [b]not currently [/b]associated with any law enforcement or military you can own a fully automatic machine gun. It is not an easy prospect and different states have different rules. However, for the most part any civilian that fits the bill so to speak can own a machine gun as defined by the ATF.

I have attended numerous shoots at Knob Creek range and can tell you it is scary who owns them. A full on GE mini gun owned by a civilian is a no shitter. The ultimate deer hunting weapon (a Quad 50 full auto) was also owned by a civilian. Grenade launchers (outside the mil spec varieties) are also available. I do not need to post the variety of sites who offer such weapons or manufacturing capabilities which require a license if made into a machine gun but no license (including a manufacturers license) if kept semi auto with the idea to never sell to anyone (unregistered and no serial number). More details required than what I list.

Some of the reasons a civilian can own a machine gun (Machineguns fall into three categories; (1) Transferable, (2) Pre-86 Dealer Samples and (3) Post-86 Dealer Samples):

1. Machineguns (not the other NFAs) can only be owned by Civilians if they are registered as such by May 19, 1986.

2. or completed form 4, a “922 Compliance” form ( F 5330.20), 2 sets of fingerprints, 2 passport photos and payment of the appropriate “Transfer Fee”.

3. or have a Class 3 license.

Note: Some states would have additional requirements and the above list is not intended to be all inclusive.

For additional information see the following sites on civilian ownership of a machine gun:

[url="http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-machine-guns.html"]http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-machine-guns.html[/url]

[url="http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#legally-acquire-nfa"]http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#legally-acquire-nfa[/url]
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[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1356305318' post='1198162']
The short answer is no. As a civilian and one person [b]not currently [/b]associated with any law enforcement or military you can own a fully automatic machine gun. It is not an easy prospect and different states have different rules. However, for the most part any civilian that fits the bill so to speak can own a machine gun as defined by the ATF.

I have attended numerous shoots at Knob Creek range and can tell you it is scary who owns them. A full on GE mini gun owned by a civilian is a no shitter. The ultimate deer hunting weapon (a Quad 50 full auto) was also owned by a civilian. Grenade launchers (outside the mil spec varieties) are also available. I do not need to post the variety of sites who offer such weapons or manufacturing capabilities which require a license if made into a machine gun but no license (including a manufacturers license) if kept semi auto with the idea to never sell to anyone (unregistered and no serial number). More details required than what I list.

Some of the reasons a civilian can own a machine gun (Machineguns fall into three categories; (1) Transferable, (2) Pre-86 Dealer Samples and (3) Post-86 Dealer Samples):

1. Machineguns (not the other NFAs) can only be owned by Civilians if they are registered as such by May 19, 1986.

2. or completed form 4, a “922 Compliance” form ( F 5330.20), 2 sets of fingerprints, 2 passport photos and payment of the appropriate “Transfer Fee”.

3. or have a Class 3 license.

Note: Some states would have additional requirements and the above list is not intended to be all inclusive.

For additional information see the following sites on civilian ownership of a machine gun:

[url="http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-machine-guns.html"]http://www.atf.gov/f...chine-guns.html[/url]

[url="http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#legally-acquire-nfa"]http://www.atf.gov/f...lly-acquire-nfa[/url]
[/quote]

It is true that you can purchase a fully automatic weapon. However, this entails 6 months to 1 year of detailed background checks, licensing procedures, and paperwork. You must have a completely spot-free criminal background and you must be endorsed personally by your local sheriff's department any any other applicable legal bodies in your state. The paper trail is immense, and it's a non-starter topic with regard to criminal behavior. IIRC there have only been 2 crimes committed with fully automatic weapons in the past 2 decades, and both have been by police officers.

Even if you could purchase a fully automatic weapon as (relatively) easily as a semi-auto AR, it's still a moot point. As I said before, if Adam Lanza had a full auto rifle, he would have killed fewer people. Fully automatic fire is very inaccurate and will deplete a 30 round clip in a matter of seconds. Even in military situations, full auto is used for "spray and pray" covering fire. What is TRULY deadly is patient, accurate single round fire.
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Only 2 crimes ? With LEGALLY owned machine guns yes. Since 1934 only 2. http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

However, with ILLEGAL owned machine guns the figure is a bit more. Seems that good stats are hard to come by but the link above has some more info.
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I'm all for strict regulation of gun manufacture, sales, and ownership in the US. However, I think the "assault weapon" talk is horseshit.

When it comes to gun control, the only thing that matters is the mass, speed, and quantity of the objects flying out the business end of the weapon. I don't give a flying fuck if the gun looks like something Rambo would have a wet dream about so long as it can only fire a limited amount of restricted caliber bullets.

This is the time for clear, purpose driven, and meaningful gun regulation, not emotional and fear based misguided legislation
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[quote name='mullichicken25' timestamp='1356496886' post='1199113']
I'm all for strict regulation of gun manufacture, sales, and ownership in the US. However, I think the "assault weapon" talk is horseshit.

When it comes to gun control, the only thing that matters is the mass, speed, and quantity of the objects flying out the business end of the weapon. I don't give a flying fuck if the gun looks like something Rambo would have a wet dream about so long as it can only fire a limited amount of restricted caliber bullets.

This is the time for clear, purpose driven, and meaningful gun regulation, not emotional and fear based misguided legislation
[/quote]

I completely agree. The process needs to be overhauled, the protocols strengthened. And the mental health issues need to be addressed. I think one way keeping guns out of the hands of insane people (or people that currently own guns but go insane at some future date) is some kind of bi-annual or yearly competency assessment. It would add a load of paperwork to the system and be inconvenient but I think it would be worth it. I am not blind to the fact that a one-time responsible gun owner can become insane over time, become a raging alcoholic or whatever. A lot can change in a person's life in a year or less.
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As for gun laws, I support background checks at all points of sale. But with modern technology there is no reason it can't be damn near instantaneous.

As for gun control, any gun they can assure me that no criminal will ever be able to get a hold of, I will support a ban for public ownership of.

When guns are illegal, only criminals will have guns.
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[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1356660356' post='1199889']
As for gun laws, I support background checks at all points of sale. But with modern technology [color=#ff0000]there is no reason it can't be damn near instantaneous.[/color]

As for gun control, any gun they can assure me that no criminal will ever be able to get a hold of, I will support a ban for public ownership of.

When guns are illegal, only criminals will have guns.
[/quote]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIpLd0WQKCY
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[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1356498010' post='1199115']
I completely agree. The process needs to be overhauled, the protocols strengthened. And the mental health issues need to be addressed. I think one way keeping guns out of the hands of insane people (or people that currently own guns but go insane at some future date) is some kind of bi-annual or yearly competency assessment. It would add a load of paperwork to the system and be inconvenient but I think it would be worth it. I am not blind to the fact that a one-time responsible gun owner can become insane over time, become a raging alcoholic or whatever. A lot can change in a person's life in a year or less.
[/quote]

Does anyone think that bi-annual or annual mental and gun safety competency tests are undoable or out of the question? Hell, I'd like to see such a thing for old people for driving a fucking car. Which of course is a far more deadly weapon and kills more people every year than guns do.

Just saying.

:lol:

Not poisoning the well or anything...

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[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1356661105' post='1199896']


Does anyone think that bi-annual or annual mental and gun safety competency tests are undoable or out of the question? Hell, I'd like to see such a thing for old people for driving a fucking car. Which of course is a far more deadly weapon and kills more people every year than guns do.

Just saying.

:lol:

Not poisoning the well or anything...
[/quote]

Cars are designed for transportation, they are not designed to kill things, knives are designed to cut things, although you can use them to kill things. GUNS are designed to KILL THINGS. They have no other use, they are designed to kill.

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[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1356699112' post='1199978']
Cars are designed for transportation, they are not designed to kill things, knives are designed to cut things, although you can use them to kill things. GUNS are designed to KILL THINGS. They have no other use, they are designed to kill.
[/quote]

Oh I know, which is why I posted the smiley and joked about "not poisoning the well" because the car analogy (along with many others) is one that crazy gun nuts like to toss out there as some kind of valid counterpoint.
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[quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1356661105' post='1199896']
Does anyone think that bi-annual or annual mental and gun safety competency tests are undoable or out of the question? Hell, I'd like to see such a thing for old people for driving a fucking car. Which of course is a far more deadly weapon and kills more people every year than guns do.

Just saying.

:lol:

Not poisoning the well or anything...
[/quote]

the biggest issue is that most of these checks and tests would only be done by people that actually follow through with the procedure put in place. Those people aren't the issue. I'm worried about the people that would skip gun safety or mental health checks. I also worry about the people that don't secure their guns.

i wonder if the answer is somewhere in the technology of guns themselves. Perhaps some better way to track a gun instead of a serial number that can be filed off. Something that could restrict who uses it. this technology would likely be expensive and may not be possible. also, it doesn't do anything to stop the supply of guns already out there.

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[quote name='gatorclaws' timestamp='1356709234' post='1200034']
the biggest issue is that most of these checks and tests would only be done by people that actually follow through with the procedure put in place. Those people aren't the issue. I'm worried about the people that would skip gun safety or mental health checks. I also worry about the people that don't secure their guns.

[/quote]

I understand this argument but thats like saying why have a no drunk driving law or a drivers license test because people will drive drunk and drive without a license.

I like your second take on the tracking of guns.
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