Jump to content

Dalton question


Recommended Posts

[quote name='Jeb' timestamp='1357481625' post='1205291']


We especially regressed after Cook returned to the lineup, ...that being said, ...Dalton is Jon Kitna part II.

Ken Anderson and Boomer Esiason would have found a way to win this game.
[/quote]

I doubt either would have In their second year.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe not Kenny in his 2nd year, ...but Boomer? Boomer was threading darts 40+ yards to double teamed receivers. Straight line darts, ...it was insane to watch. You could hear the ball hit the receiver's hands, ...man that must have hurt.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Jeb' timestamp='1357487377' post='1205357']
Maybe not Kenny in his 2nd year, ...but Boomer. Boomer was threading darts 40+ yards to double teamed receivers. Straight line darts, ...it was insane to watch. You could hear the ball hit the receiver's hands, ...man that must have hurt.
[/quote]

Brother, I saw Boomer. And I can remember a number of games when I was like "He's great" as well as some of the "what the fuck was he thinking" times. In history, we tend to only remember the "he's great" plays, like I think you are.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sold on Dalton being good enough to bring home a championship. Still tyis team did a poor job of giving him any weapons besides green. maybe sanu Aand jones will develop but it seems they really struggle getting any seperation, meaning Dalton has no where to go with the ball. I'd also say that the game would have been quite different if gresham could catch.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Jeb' timestamp='1357485588' post='1205332']
1987 was a strike year. 1988 we went to the Superbowl.

[b]We would have made the playoffs in 1987. We would have gone to the Superbowl in 1987, ...we were red hot going into that season.[/b]

We would have had 3 trips to the Superbowl for this team, ...we got robbed, ...I'll never forget that year, ...ever!
[/quote]

The scrubs only played 2 games, and they won 1. The A players went 3-10.

I think our O-line as it is currently constituted will be fine. Cook was coming off injury, and Zeitler and Boling simply wore down.

I think Jones and Sanu next year will make the offense much better.

Andy needs to get better with his decision making, aggressiveness and deep ball accuracy. He's trying too hard to be too perfect. If that does not improve significantly next season I may be ready to start looking for his replacement, but I'm not there yet.

Gresham needs to do a better job with consistency.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1357487664' post='1205360']
The scrubs only played 2 games, and they won 1. The A players went 3-10.

I think our O-line as it is currently constituted will be fine. Cook was coming off injury, and Zeitler and Boling simply wore down.

I think Jones and Sanu next year will make the offense much better.

Andy needs to get better with his decision making, aggressiveness and deep ball accuracy. He's trying too hard to be too perfect. If that does not improve significantly next season I may be ready to start looking for his replacement, but I'm not there yet.

Gresham needs to do a better job with consistency.
[/quote]


well said, and falls in line with what Gruden has said. Dalton is a perfectionist and sometimes leads to him being too conservative.

As for the oline, Boling and Zeitler haven't been the same since the Dallas game. Definitely think they hit a wall.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[b]Bengals 1986 Summary[/b]

[b]Boomer Esiason[/b] passed for a team-record 3959 yards and [b]James Brooks[/b] rushed for 1087 yards as the Bengals went 10-6, narrowly missing a playoff berth. Linebacker [b]Reggie Williams[/b] was selected NFL Man of the Year for his efforts to charity and the community.
1986: A CLOSER LOOK[list]
[*][url="http://prod.static.bengals.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/1986.pdf"]1986 Final Statistics[/url]
[/list]
PRO BOWL PLAYERS[list]
[*]RB James Brooks
[*]QB Boomer Esiason
[*]G Max Montoya
[*]T Anthony Muñoz
[/list]
1986 SEASON LEADERS[list]
[*][b]Passing:[/b] Boomer Esiason (469 Att, 273 Comp, 3959 Yds, 58.2 Pct, 24 TD, 17 Int, 87.7 Rating)
[*][b]Rushing:[/b] James Brooks (205 Att, 1087 Yds, 5.3 Avg, 56 Long, 5 TD)
[*][b]Receiving:[/b] Cris Collinsworth (62 Rec, 1024 Yds, 16.5 Avg, 46 Long, 10 TD)
[*][b]Scoring:[/b] Jim Breech, 101 points (17 FG; 50 PAT)
[/list]
1986 NEWS AND NOTES[list]
[*]The Bengals amassed a club-record 621 yards net offense in a 52-21 victory over the New York Jets on December 21. No NFL team has since matched that total in a regulation-time game. The only higher output since then came in an overtime game in 1990, as Washington produced 676 yards in a 41-38 victory over Detroit. That game lasted 9:50 into the overtime period.
[*]Twice in Bengals history, two Cincinnati players have broken the 100-yard rushing mark in the same game, including December 7 when [b]James Brooks[/b] rushed for 163 yards and [b]Stanley Wilson[/b] gained 120 yards in a 31-7 victory at New England.
[/list]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[b]Bengals 1988 Summary[/b]

The Bengals brought about one of the biggest turnarounds in NFL history by rising from their 4-11 finish of 1987 to a 12-4 regular-season record. They won the AFC Central Division title, and defeated Buffalo, 21-10, for the AFC Championship on Jan. 8 (1989). On Jan. 22 (1989), they appeared in their second Super Bowl and lost, 20-16, to San Francisco when the 49ers scored a touchdown with 34 seconds remaining in the game. Coach [b]Sam Wyche[/b]'s team posted a 14-5 mark in regular and postseason play, best in the NFL. Wyche received numerous honors for his brilliant coaching and nine Bengals were selected for the Pro Bowl — QB [b]Boomer Esiason[/b], NT [b]Tim Krumrie[/b], OT [b]Anthony Muñoz[/b], G [b]Max Montoya[/b], TE [b]Rodney Holman[/b], WR [b]Eddie Brown[/b], RB [b]James Brooks[/b], S [b]David Fulcher[/b] and CB [b]Eric Thomas[/b]. Esiason was voted the NFL's Most Valuable Player. In January of '88, LB [b]Reggie Williams[/b] received the "Sportsman of the Year" award from Sports Illustrated. Rookie [b]"Ickey" Woods[/b] led the Bengals in rushing with 1066 yards.
1988: A CLOSER LOOK[list]
[*][url="http://prod.static.bengals.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/1988.pdf"]1988 Final Statistics[/url]
[/list]
PRO BOWL PLAYERS[list]
[*]RB James Brooks
[*]WR Eddie Brown
[*]QB Boomer Esiason
[*]S David Fulcher
[*]TE Rodney Holman
[*]NT Tim Krumrie
[*]G Max Montoya
[*]T Anthony Muñoz
[*]CB Eric Thomas
[/list]
1988 SEASON LEADERS[list]
[*][b]Passing:[/b] Boomer Esiason (388 Att, 223 Comp, 3572 Yds, 57.5 Pct, 28 TD, 14 Int, 97.4 Rating)
[*][b]Rushing:[/b] Ickey Woods (203 Att, 1066 Yds, 5.3 Avg, 56 Long, 15 TD)
[*][b]Receiving:[/b] Eddie Brown (53 Rec, 1273 Yds, 24.0 Avg, 86 Long, 9 TD)
[*][b]Scoring:[/b] Ickey Woods, 90 points (15 TD rushing)
[/list]
1988 NEWS AND NOTES[list]
[*]The most 100-yard rushing games in a Bengals season is seven, during the 12-4 season of 1988. Ickey Woods had five while James Brooks had two.
[*]Ickey Woods set the franchise record for most rushing yards in a postseason game when he rumbled for 126 yards in Cincinnati's 21-13 victory over Seattle in the AFC Division
[/list]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[b]Bengals 1987 Summary[/b]

The Bengals posted a 4-11 record in a strike-interrupted season. Individual bright spots included [b]Jim Breech[/b] leading the AFC in scoring with 97 points, [b]Anthony Muñoz[/b] being voted to his seventh straight Pro Bowl, and nose tackle [b]Tim Krumrie[/b] making his first Pro Bowl.
1987: A CLOSER LOOK[list]
[*][url="http://prod.static.bengals.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/1987.pdf"]1987 Final Statistics[/url]
[/list]
PRO BOWL PLAYERS[list]
[*]NT Tim Krumrie
[*]T Anthony Muñoz
[/list]
1987 SEASON LEADERS[list]
[*][b]Passing:[/b] Boomer Esiason (440 Att, 240 Comp, 3321 Yds, 54.5 Pct, 16 TD, 19 Int, 73.1 Rating)
[*][b]Rushing:[/b] Larry Kinnebrew (154 Att, 623 Yds, 4.0 Avg, 23 Long, 9 TD)
[*][b]Receiving:[/b] Eddie Brown (44 Rec, 608 Yds, 13.8 Avg, 47 Long, 3 TD)
[*][b]Scoring:[/b] Jim Breech, 97 points (24 FG; 25 PAT)
[/list]
1987 NEWS AND NOTES[list]
[*]As a team, the Bengals had 538 rushing attempts in 1987, fifth most in a season in team history. Their 61 rushes at Seattle on October 11 in a game featuring replacement players due to the NFL players strike, stands as a single-game franchise mark.
[/list]
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The team was out for 1 month (4 games) and were cold as ice when they came back. That year was shot. They were done and just going through the motions to finish the season.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1357455939' post='1205263']
I'm not anti dalton, but I'm also hesitant to think he will win a championship for us.

My biggest question though is on how many pass plays did he throw to his first look? It just seems like every frickin play he looks at one guy and if that guy isn't open he looks for a way to get out of the pocket or run. He doesn't seem good at going through his progressions.


I know it's only his second year and his oline def didn't help him much the last 5 games or so. My main question though is how much of a concern is it going forward?
[/quote]

I bet the San Diego fans felt the same way about Brees. He didn't win one for them, either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I have said in a few other threads I just dont think Dalton is the problem. He needs better talent around him. When this offense was rolling with Palmer in 2005, he had Chad, Housh, Henry and Rudi and a pretty darn good O Line. Besides AJ, Dalton does not have that type of talent around him. Housh was going to get 80 to 90 catches a year. Tate, Sanu, Jones, Whalen, and Hawkins combined for only 105 catches this year. Dalton just needs a true number 2 WR he can trust when teams shut down AJ. If you give Dalton a true number 2 WR or a RB that teams have to worry about, Dalton's play would be much better.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1357492461' post='1205419']
As I have said in a few other threads I just dont think Dalton is the problem. He needs better talent around him. When this offense was rolling with Palmer in 2005, he had Chad, Housh, Henry and Rudi and a pretty darn good O Line. Besides AJ, Dalton does not have that type of talent around him. Housh was going to get 80 to 90 catches a year. Tate, Sanu, Jones, Whalen, and Hawkins combined for only 105 catches this year. Dalton just needs a true number 2 WR he can trust when teams shut down AJ. If you give Dalton a true number 2 WR or a RB that teams have to worry about, Dalton's play would be much better.
[/quote]


this. Dalton needs to progress and get better, but the bigger problem is asking a 2nd year QB to carry the offense. Have to find a #2 WR and get the running game consistent.

Dalton has his faults that he needs to work out, but its unrealistic to expect him to singlehandedly overcome the other shortcomings the offense is facing at this stage of his career.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Jeb' timestamp='1357485588' post='1205332']


1987 was a strike year. 1988 we went to the Superbowl.

We would have made the playoffs in 1987. We would have gone to the Superbowl in 1987, ...we were red hot going into that season.

We would have had 3 trips to the Superbowl for this team, ...we got robbed, ...I'll never forget that year, ...ever!
[/quote]

Hilarious. You start off stating that Boomer would have won the game.

Now you are back making excuses for him.

I think Boomer was a better QB let's not rewrite Bengal history. Boomer's teams fell short and especially in his first 3 seasons as the primary starter.

None of his teams went to the playoffs. In fact, he was subject to similar scrunity as Andy is today.


All Andy has done is raise our expectations. We could easily be sitting with two non playoff seasons instead of two playoff loses.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1357492461' post='1205419']
As I have said in a few other threads I just dont think Dalton is the problem. He needs better talent around him. When this offense was rolling with Palmer in 2005, he had Chad, Housh, Henry and Rudi and a pretty darn good O Line. Besides AJ, Dalton does not have that type of talent around him. Housh was going to get 80 to 90 catches a year. Tate, Sanu, Jones, Whalen, and Hawkins combined for only 105 catches this year. Dalton just needs a true number 2 WR he can trust when teams shut down AJ. If you give Dalton a true number 2 WR or a RB that teams have to worry about, Dalton's play would be much better.
[/quote]

Dalton is big part of what needs to get better.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dalton's problems:
Locks in to primary target...if not open he freaks out more often than not
Doesn't scan the field....he has players running WIDE the fuck OPEN and he doesn't see them because he's a douchebag that doesn't move his eyes
A little pressure and his eyes move from down field to his escape route.....no threat of making a play when he's on the run because his head is down
Gun shy - throw the damn ball to your guys
Lacks confidence in himself, leading to gun shyness
Throws at the earliest possible moment - needs to hold the ball a split second longer (see INT intended for AJ.....NOT AJ's fault, he ran his route, turned his head and the ball was past him....Dalton threw too early AGAIN)
Can't hit receivers in stride a majority of the time
When receiver is open however, the dumbass waits until it's too late at times (underthrown INT to M. Jones should have been thrown 1 sec sooner.....)
Deep throws a HUGE issue - he sucks at them
Propensity to get ball batted down
And lastly, he sucks. SO MUCH confidence that he'll be holding a Lombardi trophy one day. Can't you guys feel the confidence when the name Andy Dalton is mentioned? I know I feel all warm inside knowing he'll lead the Bengals to rings! It's inevitable....it's only his 2nd year!!! H.O.F.! Marino, Montana, Favre, Manning, Brady, Dalton. Yup, belongs in their class........just look at the stats.

Bruce Gradkowski could have the numbers Dalton does with AJ Green as his WR. Stats are misleading....look at Dalton's stats this year. Did he play that well or does what you see on the field trump data?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Khatmandude' timestamp='1357495167' post='1205442']
Dalton's problems:
Locks in to primary target...if not open he freaks out more often than not
Doesn't scan the field....he has players running WIDE the fuck OPEN and he doesn't see them because he's a douchebag that doesn't move his eyes
A little pressure and his eyes move from down field to his escape route.....no threat of making a play when he's on the run because his head is down
Gun shy - throw the damn ball to your guys
Lacks confidence in himself, leading to gun shyness
Throws at the earliest possible moment - needs to hold the ball a split second longer (see INT intended for AJ.....NOT AJ's fault, he ran his route, turned his head and the ball was past him....Dalton threw too early AGAIN)
Can't hit receivers in stride a majority of the time
When receiver is open however, the dumbass waits until it's too late at times (underthrown INT to M. Jones should have been thrown 1 sec sooner.....)
Deep throws a HUGE issue - he sucks at them
Propensity to get ball batted down
And lastly, he sucks. SO MUCH confidence that he'll be holding a Lombardi trophy one day. Can't you guys feel the confidence when the name Andy Dalton is mentioned? I know I feel all warm inside knowing he'll lead the Bengals to rings! It's inevitable....it's only his 2nd year!!! H.O.F.! Marino, Montana, Favre, Manning, Brady, Dalton. Yup, belongs in their class........just look at the stats.

Bruce Gradkowski could have the numbers Dalton does with AJ Green as his WR. Stats are misleading....look at Dalton's stats this year. Did he play that well or does what you see on the field trump data?
[/quote]

Sorry, bro, but I think most of that is bullshit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='cincity' timestamp='1357497405' post='1205472']
So if Luck loses this game in Baltimore, and looks bad, shuld the Colts start looking for another QB? Fuck no!!! GTFOH!!!
[/quote]

He's only a 1st year player!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

So, let me ask you......who would you rather have? Dalton or Luck?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Khatmandude' timestamp='1357497902' post='1205479']


He's only a 1st year player!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

So, let me ask you......who would you rather have? Dalton or Luck?
[/quote]

While Luck might have more upside, I would take Dalton untill Luck proves he can be much better. Luck only completed 54 percent of his passes and had 27 turnovers this year. Not good numbers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1357498280' post='1205484']
While Luck might have more upside, I would take Dalton untill Luck proves it. Luck only completed 54 percent of his passes and had 27 turnovers this year. Not good numbers.
[/quote]

"While Luck might have more upside" HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA......good one!

And THAT is a prime example of why stats should be analyzed as part of a cluster. They don't tell the whole/real story. Luck is by far the better player and if you asked 750 NFL people who they would rather have, 750 of them would say Luck.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Khatmandude' timestamp='1357498478' post='1205485']


"While Luck might have more upside" HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA......good one!

And THAT is a prime example of why stats should be analyzed as part of a cluster. They don't tell the whole/real story. Luck is by far the better player and if you asked 750 NFL people who they would rather have, 750 of them would say Luck.
[/quote]

And those same 750 would have said Burfict had no place in the league.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Khatmandude' timestamp='1357498478' post='1205485']


"While Luck might have more upside" HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA......good one!

And THAT is a prime example of why stats should be analyzed as part of a cluster. They don't tell the whole/real story. Luck is by far the better player and if you asked 750 NFL people who they would rather have, 750 of them would say Luck.
[/quote]

No shit people would pick Luck. They believe he has more upside. If Dalton had put up those numbers of 27 turnovers and only 54% completion rate people on this board would be trying to burn down his house and run him out of town but it seems to be ok if Luck does it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm as frustrated as any, but as fans, we have to give him one more year. We also need to look in the mirror collectively. The Bengals have zero homefield advantage. Lets put it all out there and give them some damn help. Disgruntled fans say they won't support the team until the team wins something... well shit... Maybe they can't win something until we really support them consistently. Make this place like Seattle.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1357498969' post='1205490']
And those same 750 would have said Burfict had no place in the league.
[/quote]

And they would have been right about it at the time. He was a disaster. He changed dramatically. Is that what you're implying? That Dalton or Luck is going to change dramatically from what they are right now? Otherwise I don't see the point to your post.....it was the easy post to make without much critical thinking. I'm glad the Arabian drugs I take haven't made me incapable of doing so!

A better example would have been to use Tom Brady as he was a 6th Rd pick but in my scenario, Luck gets picked over Dalton 1000 times out of 1000.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1357499378' post='1205494']
No shit people would pick Luck. They believe he has more upside. If Dalton had put up those numbers of 27 turnovers and only 54% completion rate people on this board would be trying to burn down his house and run him out of town but it seems to be ok if Luck does it.
[/quote]

No shit people seem to be OK if Luck does it.......first of all, they know he hasn't approached his ceiling yet whereas Dalton's ceiling is much lower and he's already there pretty much. Second of all, you can tell by looking at him, the eye test, that he's going to be a damn good QB (if he isn't already). What was Indy's record last year? He's led them to the playoffs with no dominating defense and no AJ Green. He throws to a 47 yr old Reggie Wayne and a bunch of no name receivers. How many yards did he have passing this year? Did he put up pretty good numbers with the Indy Oline, no name RB's and WR's and TE's? What's Indy's defense like?

Seriously, this isn't hard.

To defend Dalton is one thing, but use arguments that make sense.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...