|kennethmw| Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Khatmandude' timestamp='1357499825' post='1205500'] And they would have been right about it at the time. He was a disaster. He changed dramatically. Is that what you're implying? That Dalton or Luck is going to change dramatically from what they are right now? Otherwise I don't see the point to your post.....it was the easy post to make without much critical thinking. I'm glad the Arabian drugs I take haven't made me incapable of doing so! A better example would have been to use Tom Brady as he was a 6th Rd pick but in my scenario, Luck gets picked over Dalton 1000 times out of 1000. [/quote] No, they were wrong the whole fucking time. Very, very few guys go from being considered a 1st rd pick after the bowl games, to being undraftable without something criminal happening or a severe injury. It was group think, which I think is what the majority of your opinions right now are based on. I think I'll put you on ignore for about a week, maybe that will allow you to get over your little Andy fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1357500330' post='1205508'] No, they were wrong the whole fucking time. Very, very few guys go from being considered a 1st rd pick after the bowl games, to being undraftable without something criminal happening or a severe injury. It was group think, which I think is what the majority of your opinions right now are based on. I think I'll put you on ignore for about a week, maybe that will allow you to get over your little Andy fit. [/quote] It's up to Andy low long it takes me to get over my Andy fit. Better to be safe than sorry, put me on ignore for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Bgal' timestamp='1357499794' post='1205498'] I'm as frustrated as any, but as fans, we have to give him one more year. We also need to look in the mirror collectively. The Bengals have zero homefield advantage. Lets put it all out there and give them some damn help. Disgruntled fans say they won't support the team until the team wins something... well shit... Maybe they can't win something until we really support them consistently. Make this place like Seattle. [/quote] Watching Ravens. Our homefield is embarassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDawgBengal Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Khatmandude' timestamp='1357500135' post='1205504'] No shit people seem to be OK if Luck does it.......first of all, they know he hasn't approached his ceiling yet whereas Dalton's ceiling is much lower and he's already there pretty much. Second of all, you can tell by looking at him, the eye test, that he's going to be a damn good QB (if he isn't already). What was Indy's record last year? He's led them to the playoffs with no dominating defense and no AJ Green. He throws to a 47 yr old Reggie Wayne and a bunch of no name receivers. How many yards did he have passing this year? Did he put up pretty good numbers with the Indy Oline, no name RB's and WR's and TE's? What's Indy's defense like? Seriously, this isn't hard. To defend Dalton is one thing, but use arguments that make sense. [/quote] To act like Dalton has far superior WRs, RBs and O line than Luck is crazy. Ty Hilton would instantly be this teams number 2 WR. Wayne is no scrub either. Both teams O lines have been bad at times. Dalton took a 4-12 team and took them to the playoffs his first year. This Colts team has a bunch of new players so its not like Luck took over the same Colts team from last year. I am not saying Luck is never going to better then Dalton. He may very well now but let's not act like Luck is far superior better than Dalton right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I would take Luck. Andy Dalton isn't Jon Kitna either. Dalton isn't above scrunity. Our line probably looks better if his recognition improves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle1 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1357502584' post='1205520'] Watching Ravens. Our homefield is embarassing. [/quote] It is a chicken/egg thing. Let the ravens go 22 years with no playoff win and see the support they would get. Steelers had poor support for years too------at least that is what my co-workers in Pittsburgh have told me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Jungle1' timestamp='1357503470' post='1205527'] It is a chicken/egg thing. Let the ravens go 22 years with no playoff win and see the support they would get. Steelers had poor support for years too------at least that is what my co-workers in Pittsburgh have told me [/quote] Still ours sucks. Whatever the reason, it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Gotta love the haters. Dalton is fine. We need a consistent running game... We need better pass protection as well, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Gary' timestamp='1357503701' post='1205530'] Gotta love the haters. Dalton is fine. We need a consistent running game... We need better pass protection as well, end of story. [/quote] Nah. You don't cut or bench but Dalton has to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.A.B. Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Gary' timestamp='1357503701' post='1205530'] Gotta love the haters. Dalton is fine. We need a consistent running game... We need better pass protection as well, end of story. [/quote] He's not "fine". He's gotta improve in a big way next year, or we'll be one and done 3 years in a row Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkansas Bengal Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1357502652' post='1205522'] To act like Dalton has far superior WRs, RBs and O line than Luck is crazy. Ty Hilton would instantly be this teams number 2 WR. Wayne is no scrub either. Both teams O lines have been bad at times. Dalton took a 4-12 team and took them to the playoffs his first year. This Colts team has a bunch of new players so its not like Luck took over the same Colts team from last year. I am not saying Luck is never going to better then Dalton. He may very well now but let's not act like Luck is far superior better than Dalton right now. [/quote] Anyone that says they would rather have Dalton than Luck is either drunk, crazy, or both. Luck has better size, has a better arm, much better pocket awareness, doesn't get as many balls batted down, has more athletic ability, and doesn't hold the ball as long as Dalton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cplmer2004 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I am not sure what is going on with the Bengals. I get sick of Gresham not being able to catch the ball. I think that was the game plan. That said Dalton has to hit AJ at the end of the game any legit NFL QB hits that. He seems to have marvin in his head to much do not turn it over do not turn it over which have made him gunshy. The running game has to be fixed as dalton needs it. They need to stop all the shotgun but with this line I guess I understand. I would stick with Dalton but I would draft someone to develop. Dalton missed two throws to AJ green in the fourth quarter I bet almost all non option QBs in the NFL hit yesterday. ANd no I do not want palmer back another pack 10 QB waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDawgBengal Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Arkansas Bengal' timestamp='1357504281' post='1205540'] Anyone that says they would rather have Dalton than Luck is either drunk, crazy, or both. Luck has better size, has a better arm, much better pocket awareness, doesn't get as many balls batted down, has more athletic ability, and doesn't hold the ball as long as Dalton. [/quote] I think people misunderstood me. I am just saying right now I would take Dalton. Long term would be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Khatmandude' timestamp='1357500135' post='1205504'] No shit people seem to be OK if Luck does it.......first of all, they know he hasn't approached his ceiling yet whereas Dalton's ceiling is much lower and he's already there pretty much. Second of all, you can tell by looking at him, the eye test, that he's going to be a damn good QB (if he isn't already). What was Indy's record last year? He's led them to the playoffs with no dominating defense and no AJ Green. He throws to a 47 yr old Reggie Wayne and a bunch of no name receivers. How many yards did he have passing this year? Did he put up pretty good numbers with the Indy Oline, no name RB's and WR's and TE's? What's Indy's defense like? Seriously, this isn't hard. To defend Dalton is one thing,[b] but use arguments that make sense.[/b] [/quote] shouldn't you be held to that same standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.Cleveland Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Andy Dalton has been in this league 2 years. Last year his main targets were AJ, Jerome Simpson, and Andre Caldwell with Gresham there as well. This year he has had AJ, Gresham, rookies, and guys that rarely played last year. He has an OC who is in his second year coaching at the NFL level that has not shown (as of yet) to be good at playing the NFL chess game. His center and LG were gone for large chunks of the year (if not all). He at one point essentially had rookies at both guards and center. He has a slow RB (I like him but he's slow) that never really showed awesome ability to block. The point is its not like he's had any stability around him and the one guy whose vision he is charged with executing (Gruden, not Marvin) doesn't seem to have answers to adjustments other than execute better. He doesn't have a rifle for an arm but was the most accurate QB drafted in his class. When you can't just gun every pass on a rope, you have to have timing. Timing an NFL receiver is a shit ton harder than timing in HS and college due to the speed of the game, the quality of defenders and the IQ of the DC trying to unravel your plans. To me, he looks like he's not sure he is going to have time to throw most passes that take more than a few seconds to develop and he would rather take a sack then throw an int. This will happen when everything around you changes fairly frequently as you are trying to learn, but at the same time your team is competitive and you don't want to be the reason for a tough loss. I know Marvin isn't worried and neither am I. If screaming that the sky is falling helps all you chicken littles get through the day, then go ahead. I'll wait to see what happens once he has been given a few years to mature and the people around him stabilize before I start ducking the falling pieces of sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='F.Cleveland' timestamp='1357510480' post='1205594'] Andy Dalton has been in this league 2 years. Last year his main targets were AJ, Jerome Simpson, and Andre Caldwell with Gresham there as well. This year he has had AJ, Gresham, rookies, and guys that rarely played last year. He has an OC who is in his second year coaching at the NFL level that has not shown (as of yet) to be good at playing the NFL chess game. His center and LG were gone for large chunks of the year (if not all). He at one point essentially had rookies at both guards and center. He has a slow RB (I like him but he's slow) that never really showed awesome ability to block. The point is its not like he's had any stability around him and the one guy whose vision he is charged with executing (Gruden, not Marvin) doesn't seem to have answers to adjustments other than execute better. He doesn't have a rifle for an arm but was the most accurate QB drafted in his class. When you can't just gun every pass on a rope, you have to have timing. Timing an NFL receiver is a shit ton harder than timing in HS and college due to the speed of the game, the quality of defenders and the IQ of the DC trying to unravel your plans. To me, he looks like he's not sure he is going to have time to throw most passes that take more than a few seconds to develop and he would rather take a sack then throw an int. This will happen when everything around you changes fairly frequently as you are trying to learn, but at the same time your team is competitive and you don't want to be the reason for a tough loss. I know Marvin isn't worried and neither am I. If screaming that the sky is falling helps all you chicken littles get through the day, then go ahead. I'll wait to see what happens once he has been given a few years to mature and the people around him stabilize before I start ducking the falling pieces of sky. [/quote] Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1357481933' post='1205294'] Dalton needs to get better, but things around him also need to get better. No way should BJGE only have 11 rushes in a game like this. Gresham had 3 drops, and on another stopped on his route which led to a sack (would have been wide open too and Dalton was looking for him). Green quit on a route that led to an INT (and he continues to suck in run blocking). Further, this team has continually failed to gameplan to neutralize opponent's pass rushes whether it be effective screens, slants, draws, and whatnot. Dalton needs to get better, but he also needs to get more help than he's gotten. [/quote] I think this sums up my frustration perfectly. What I don't understand is why the leaders of this team don't see it and adjust because WE ALL SEE IT. It's like they have a script they just WILL NOT deviate from no matter what. That is not how to win in the NFL. Square peg, meet round hole. Just keep pounding it, eventually it'll fit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBurfict55 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='F.Cleveland' timestamp='1357510480' post='1205594'] Andy Dalton has been in this league 2 years. Last year his main targets were AJ, Jerome Simpson, and Andre Caldwell with Gresham there as well. This year he has had AJ, Gresham, rookies, and guys that rarely played last year. He has an OC who is in his second year coaching at the NFL level that has not shown (as of yet) to be good at playing the NFL chess game. His center and LG were gone for large chunks of the year (if not all). He at one point essentially had rookies at both guards and center. He has a slow RB (I like him but he's slow) that never really showed awesome ability to block. The point is its not like he's had any stability around him and the one guy whose vision he is charged with executing (Gruden, not Marvin) doesn't seem to have answers to adjustments other than execute better. He doesn't have a rifle for an arm but was the most accurate QB drafted in his class. When you can't just gun every pass on a rope, you have to have timing. Timing an NFL receiver is a shit ton harder than timing in HS and college due to the speed of the game, the quality of defenders and the IQ of the DC trying to unravel your plans. To me, he looks like he's not sure he is going to have time to throw most passes that take more than a few seconds to develop and he would rather take a sack then throw an int. This will happen when everything around you changes fairly frequently as you are trying to learn, but at the same time your team is competitive and you don't want to be the reason for a tough loss. I know Marvin isn't worried and neither am I. If screaming that the sky is falling helps all you chicken littles get through the day, then go ahead. I'll wait to see what happens once he has been given a few years to mature and the people around him stabilize before I start ducking the falling pieces of sky. [/quote] Love this post like Kenneth stated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Dalton was forced to pass and opposing teams were not really scared of our run game. Look at Eli Mannings first few years in the league. His offensive line was crap and when it finally got better he won a couple SBs. So rather than bailing on a second year QB who has helped turn this franchise around, why not give it a couple more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I am somewhere in the middle on this. I do think Dalton has his his ceiling from a physical standpoint, its the mental part of the game where I think he can still grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1357503574' post='1205528'] Still ours sucks. Whatever the reason, it sucks. [/quote] Ours suck because we have 4 playoff appearances in 21 years, our teams are horribly boring to watch ( minus the 2005 team which was a blast) and we haven't won a playoff game since January 6, 1991. Once we went down by 9 yesterday I knew the game was over and even posted it in the game thread. I knew our coaches were incapable of figuring out Houston's defense and taking advantage of it. I don't have a big problem with Andy Dalton but I realize he is basically a little better version of Joe Flacco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1357515106' post='1205630'] I am somewhere in the middle on this. I do think Dalton has his his ceiling from a physical standpoint, its the mental part of the game where I think he can still grow. [/quote] Agreed. I think it is mentally where he has the most potential. We had the prototypical QB that didn't seem to have the mental, I'll ride at least a few more years with a guy that seems to have the mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1357502584' post='1205520'] Watching Ravens. Our homefield is embarassing. [/quote] Yeah, I've been to Houston and Tennessee the past two years, and then I went to two games at PBS, we're no where near as loud as those crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfan850 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 i think some people need to stop playing madden on "pro" and realize that in real football you don't throw for 400 yards and 3 TDs every game, especially not when your a 2nd year player facing a really good team on the road with only 1 real weapon to throw to and your 2nd best option drops three passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unleashed Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 [quote name='bengalsfan850' timestamp='1357515921' post='1205640'] i think some people need to stop playing madden on "pro" and realize that in real football you don't throw for 400 yards and 3 TDs every game, especially not when your a 2nd year player facing a really good team on the road with only 1 real weapon to throw to and your 2nd best option drops three passes [/quote] Nobody expects dalton to throw for 400 yards every week. Finding a wide open receiver instead of scrambling for a 1 yard gain is more along the lines of expecatuons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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