happyrid Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 [quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1359495175' post='1211785'] I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but if I'm giving a guy 20 mil a year he better be able to win games on his own even if he is surrounded by lesser talent. I think flacco is a good qb when he has ray rice Boldin and smith around him. But in a few years when he is making 20-25 mil they can't afford those guys and he'll be throwing to average or below average wrs. Brady and manning are good enough where they can turn a 35 year old receiver like Brandon Stokely into a playmaker and they can get by with wrs that are average. I just don't think flacco is good enough to do that. I'd be very happy seeing them resign him at 20 plus mil a year. [/quote] You guys are both right. Them having to pay Flacco 15-20 million a year will leave less money for them to pay other players which hurts them in the short and long run. Especially since Flacco is not a top 5 QB. However, scharm is correct that Baltimore losing Flacco would be a huge blow to them. Sure they would have some more money to spend on guys like Kruger and Ellerbe, but QB is massively important and Flacco is pretty good. If they let him go, they would really take a step backwards as they wouldn't be able to get anyone nearly as good. It is kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't for the Ravens. They just can't let Flacco walk. But it is a tough pill to swallow to pay himDrew Brees money too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 [quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1359509050' post='1211816'] You guys are both right. Them having to pay Flacco 15-20 million a year will leave less money for them to pay other players which hurts them in the short and long run. Especially since Flacco is not a top 5 QB. However, scharm is correct that Baltimore losing Flacco would be a huge blow to them. Sure they would have some more money to spend on guys like Kruger and Ellerbe, but QB is massively important and Flacco is pretty good. If they let him go, they would really take a step backwards as they wouldn't be able to get anyone nearly as good. It is kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't for the Ravens. They just can't let Flacco walk. But it is a tough pill to swallow to pay himDrew Brees money too. [/quote] Dont get me wrong, I dont think the ravens have a choice here. They are probably going to have to pay the guy eventually. The more he gets the better for us. I dont buy the concept that whatever they pay him will be worth it. It would be better for us if they completely let him go, but it is still good for us if they get stuck into paying him like 20 mil a year. That is a crippling amount that will make it very hard for them to keep a lot of their key players. Guys like Torrey Smith. My whole point is that guys like Peyton manning can make due with a poor receiving corps. Average type WRs like brandon stokely. TEs like Jacob Tamme. I just dont think Flacco is the type of QB where if guys like Boldin and Torrey smith and eventually even ray rice leave that he can still win a lot of games no matter who you line up next to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1359491460' post='1211768'] Letting Brooks go wasnt a talent decision, it was him being a locker room issue. [/quote] Huh ?? Must have missed that story. 1st I've heard that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 [quote name='eva4ben-gal' timestamp='1359485918' post='1211737'] The production the Bengals got out of Smith pales in comparison to how he's played as a 49er. He was a bust here. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 [quote name='bubba' timestamp='1359510367' post='1211821'] Huh ?? Must have missed that story. 1st I've heard that. [/quote] Can someone who remembers the specific articles and can find them better than me post? I know it was something about either some minor trouble he got in or being a problem in the locker room, dont remember the specifics, but I know it wasnt for talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 [quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1359509237' post='1211817'] Dont get me wrong, I dont think the ravens have a choice here. They are probably going to have to pay the guy eventually. The more he gets the better for us. I dont buy the concept that whatever they pay him will be worth it. It would be better for us if they completely let him go, but it is still good for us if they get stuck into paying him like 20 mil a year. That is a crippling amount that will make it very hard for them to keep a lot of their key players. Guys like Torrey Smith. My whole point is that guys like Peyton manning can make due with a poor receiving corps. Average type WRs like brandon stokely. TEs like Jacob Tamme. I just dont think Flacco is the type of QB where if guys like Boldin and Torrey smith and eventually even ray rice leave that he can still win a lot of games no matter who you line up next to him. [/quote] Yeah, I agree with all of this. I guess the two points I would make in Flaccos favor are: 1. He doesn't seem to get nervous and has played well in big games. He has a great playoff record and has arguably outplayed Tom Brady in three straight playoff meetings between the two. 2. He throws a very good deep ball. Despite being mediocre in other areas, he is elite at this one facet of the game. Along with Torrey Smith, this ability forces teams to keep their Safeties deep and makes life much easier for guys like Ray Rice. He would be much easier to take away in the run game if you didn't have to worry about Flacco throwing it deep and killing you for a big play. On the whole, it is a steep price to pay but he is probably worth it just in the sense that they will likely be better with him than they would be with a cheaper QB, despite them being able to spend the money saves elsewhere. QBs have such an overwhelming impact on the game, that it takes a whole boatload of talent at other positions to make up for a bad QB. The Colts are a great example. Double digit wins every year with Peyton. An absolutely miserable year with bad QB play. Then right back to double digits with Luck. Peyton is arguably worth way more than he makes. His impact is bigger than the impact of a good DE, good LB and good CB combined. Anyway, the good news is that no matter what, the Ravens misplayed this. They should have extended him a year or two ago for a reasonable amount. Now, Flacco has all the leverage. There are a bunch of teams that badly need a QB. There aren't any really good guys on the FA market. And the draft looks pretty weak. Simply a supply and demand deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 [quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1359582208' post='1212043'] Yeah, I agree with all of this. I guess the two points I would make in Flaccos favor are: 1. He doesn't seem to get nervous and has played well in big games. He has a great playoff record and has arguably outplayed Tom Brady in three straight playoff meetings between the two. 2. He throws a very good deep ball. Despite being mediocre in other areas, he is elite at this one facet of the game. Along with Torrey Smith, this ability forces teams to keep their Safeties deep and makes life much easier for guys like Ray Rice. He would be much easier to take away in the run game if you didn't have to worry about Flacco throwing it deep and killing you for a big play. On the whole, it is a steep price to pay but he is probably worth it just in the sense that they will likely be better with him than they would be with a cheaper QB, despite them being able to spend the money saves elsewhere. QBs have such an overwhelming impact on the game, that it takes a whole boatload of talent at other positions to make up for a bad QB. The Colts are a great example. Double digit wins every year with Peyton. An absolutely miserable year with bad QB play. Then right back to double digits with Luck. Peyton is arguably worth way more than he makes. His impact is bigger than the impact of a good DE, good LB and good CB combined. Anyway, the good news is that no matter what, the Ravens misplayed this. They should have extended him a year or two ago for a reasonable amount. Now, Flacco has all the leverage. There are a bunch of teams that badly need a QB. There aren't any really good guys on the FA market. And the draft looks pretty weak. Simply a supply and demand deal. [/quote] Yeah they dropped the ball and even though it will be tough to overcome them with flacco, it will also be tough for Baltimore to keep a lot of their young talent. Putting all your marbles in the flacco basket may or may not work out. I just don't think flacco can win on his own and in a year or two he might have to if they can't afford to retain Torrey smith, Boldin, etc. I think their D is already on the verge of being very mediocre when they lose Lewis, reed, and maybe Kruger and ellerbe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Didn't they dump Dilfer after they won their last SB and shit the bed with Elvis Grbac? Granted that made a lot more sense because Dilfer, but I wouldn't be upset if that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 [url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/31/ravens-will-soon-face-tough-decision-on-anquan-boldin/"]http://profootballta...-anquan-boldin/[/url] Saying that the Ravens are already 5 mil over the cap and will probably go up to 20 over the cap after they tag or resign Flacco. Very likely going to have to cut Boldin and Jacoby Jones and probably wont be able to resign Kruger or Ellerbe. They could lose, in one offseason, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Paul Kruger, Ellerbe, Anquan Boldin, and Jacoby Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 [quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1359675989' post='1212360'] [url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/31/ravens-will-soon-face-tough-decision-on-anquan-boldin/"]http://profootballta...-anquan-boldin/[/url] Saying that the Ravens are already 5 mil over the cap and will probably go up to 20 over the cap after they tag or resign Flacco. Very likely going to have to cut Boldin and Jacoby Jones and probably wont be able to resign Kruger or Ellerbe. They could lose, in one offseason, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Paul Kruger, Ellerbe, Anquan Boldin, and Jacoby Jones. [/quote] It all comes down to how their recent draft picks perform. Some of them look very good. Torrey Smith was a steal in the late 2nd in 2011. Bernard Pierce looks like a steal in the late 3rd in 2012. Their issue is that a lot of their other recent early picks look iffy. The CB Jimmy Smith has been a disappointment. Sergio Kindle got cut. Not sure yet about Courtney Upshaw. They badly need to hit on a high rate of these picks because with all the high priced vets they have, they need big contributions from a lot of cheap young talent. Hard to bet against Ozzie Newsome unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 I think Williams and Birk are on the verge of retiring as well. A win on Sunday would almost make it a certainty. I'm expecting them to fall apart quick after this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 If the Ravens want to turn themselves into the Carson Palmer Bengals, that's fine with me. And if they fail to keep their offense on-track, all the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 After all the years watching Ed Reed beat him by hisself at times, it would be so refreshing to have him on our side. Not that it will happen, but better somewhere else than in our division. NFC would be most preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 [quote name='JC' timestamp='1359738300' post='1212502'] After all the years watching Ed Reed beat him by hisself at times, it would be so refreshing to have him on our side. Not that it will happen, but better somewhere else than in our division. NFC would be most preferable. [/quote] I'd love to draft a top notch saftey as hope and pray that burfict becomes the next Rey Lewis (minus the murders, deer spray, and silly antics) and the stud saftey becomes the next Ed reed. Obviously a lot easier said than done but after watching those two carry that D for 10 years I'd love to see us get guys that could potentially do the same for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enon Bengal Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1359514942' post='1211832'] Can someone who remembers the specific articles and can find them better than me post? I know it was something about either some minor trouble he got in or being a problem in the locker room, dont remember the specifics, but I know it wasnt for talent. [/quote] Going from memory, I thought he had problems learning the play book, assignments, reads, etc. In other words, he was too dumb to play in Zimm's defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 [quote name='Enon Bengal' timestamp='1359815162' post='1212654'] Going from memory, I thought he had problems learning the play book, assignments, reads, etc. In other words, he was too dumb to play in Zimm's defense. [/quote] Yea I read it was play book issues. Also, a numbers games as brooks tells it. He got injured right before the season and they needed his roster spot for someone who could play right away. Probably a combo of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 [quote name='Enon Bengal' timestamp='1359815162' post='1212654'] Going from memory, I thought he had problems learning the play book, assignments, reads, etc. In other words, he was too dumb to play in Zimm's defense. [/quote] I remember it as he had an ego problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I saw the Browns new owner said they are going to have an open competition at QB next fall. Said they will bring in a FA to compete. Rumors that Derek Anderson will be back in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I saw that too. The squawking heads are saying, all things considered, Colt McCoy is a better fit for a Norv offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 [quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1359900109' post='1212764'] I saw that too. The squawking heads are saying, all things considered, Colt McCoy is a better fit for a Norv offense. [/quote] I always liked Colt McCoy. He got stuck in the worst possible situation. He would have been pretty solid on the right team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 [quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1359854813' post='1212731'] I saw the Browns new owner said they are going to have an open competition at QB next fall. Said they will bring in a FA to compete. [b]Rumors that Derek Anderson will be back in town.[/b] [/quote] lol.. I hope he gets the gig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 [quote name='Orange 'n Black' timestamp='1359915424' post='1212782'] I always liked Colt McCoy. He got stuck in the worst possible situation. He would have been pretty solid on the right team. [/quote] I still think he is solid. He was a square peg in a round hole with previous coaching staffs there. This offensive scheme coming in may be right up his alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboi Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 the Bengals should go after ed reed and Darrell revise and draft Dion Jordan,if they can't resign Micheal Johnson or Andre smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 [quote name='bigboi' timestamp='1359925856' post='1212806'] the Bengals should go after ed reed and Darrell revise and draft Dion Jordan,if they can't resign Micheal Johnson or Andre smith. [/quote] None of the above will happen... nice to think about, but Revis is way out of our price range (plus we have a really nice CB corps), and Reed will be way too expensive plus he wouldn't want to play here and Reggie Nelson already plays his position. We will franchise either MJ or Andre too, and I expect we'll get both back considering we've got like $60m in cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unleashed Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 What safeties are hitting the market this offseason? I thought I heard Goldson from SF is a free agent? If we could lock up a solid FA safety, it'd give us even more versatility with our draft picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.