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What Would it Take for You to Believe in God?


Enon Bengal

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Sorry, bro, but your ideas are based in the same idea structure as those who have always been persecuted by the church, and at the same time, persecuted the church. You cannot imagine an existence where Evolution and God don't contradict each other, while I think they are both proof of the other. I fully and totally believe that the bible that me and all of my Christian friends read is simply the interpretations of men of that they did not understand. I also believe that science is simply the works of men to try to understand that which they do not understand. Both believe in a deity that provides answers, for the Christians it's God, for the Sciencetians it's Logic. Old at least seems willing to entertain portions of your thought, but you don't seem to believe that you owe him the same GRACE.

 

You're wrong again...you even quoted me saying "You both are the ones that are can't rectify a world with Evolution and god, not me..."     

 

Which, unless I'm living in crazy town, means I can rectify a world with both god and evolution.  I think the latter makes the former unlikely but there's plenty of wiggle room to fit both.  Your lack of understanding about undeniable mechanisms of evolution is what has conflated the issue.  Not me. Care to educate me about selection or mutation in nature and how I'm being unreasonable by assuming their robust understanding?  Or are you going to respond with some sort of generalization about respecting world views and come full circle back to people being ignorant and me not giving a fuck that they're offended when I tell them that. 

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Nutz, if you don't believe in God, what keeps you from robbing, killing, doing whatever it takes to advance?  


We do not need to fear what lies beyond the grave to keep from doing terrible things in reality. IMO we have an inherent sense of base morality as a result of being social organisms.

Why must a divinity exist to believe in the golden rule? Are you telling me that your confidence in your vision of the universe and the impending afterlife is the only thing that keeps the inner urge to rape and pillage bittled up? You may annoy the shit out of me but I dont believe thats true. I think if something radical happend and your world view changed you wouldn't suddenly devolve into a rageful being incapable of controlling yourself and exisitng within societies framework.
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You should do yourself a favor and read the Quran....much of it is science.  Maybe even half.  Things that science has learned of fairly recently historically speaking.  The Quran was revealed over 1400 yrs ago to an illiterate man.  I think you'd find it interesting.  I'm not very religious myself so I'm not trying to push religion on you by any means....just think you may find it interesting.  Can't science and God co-exist?  

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You should do yourself a favor and read the Quran....much of it is science.  Maybe even half.  Things that science has learned of fairly recently historically speaking.  The Quran was revealed over 1400 yrs ago to an illiterate man.  I think you'd find it interesting.  I'm not very religious myself so I'm not trying to push religion on you by any means....just think you may find it interesting.  Can't science and God co-exist?  

 

Not sure of the percentage.  Science and Islam is an interesting subject.  Kind of explains how religion and science can co-exist.  Thank you for pointing that out.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science

 

 

From an Islamic standpoint, science, the study of nature, is considered to be linked to the concept of Tawhid (the Oneness of God), as are all other branches of knowledge.

 

It was an angel that many religions believe in that presented the words of the Quran to Muhammad directly from Allah.

 

Gabriel.

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You should do yourself a favor and read the Quran....much of it is science.  Maybe even half.  Things that science has learned of fairly recently historically speaking.  The Quran was revealed over 1400 yrs ago to an illiterate man.  I think you'd find it interesting.  I'm not very religious myself so I'm not trying to push religion on you by any means....just think you may find it interesting.  Can't science and God co-exist?  


I'm not hear to say they can't.

When it comes to evolution, I dont see the sense in arguing in the face of such robust consensus, and not just among scientific opinions but consensus between scores of different fields of study and volumes upon volumes of peer reviewed data.
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I'm not hear to say they can't.

When it comes to evolution, I dont see the sense in arguing in the face of such robust consensus, and not just among scientific opinions but consensus between scores of different fields of study and volumes upon volumes of peer reviewed data.

 

Again, science and God can co-exist.  No doubt evolution occurs.  I'm not arguing that.

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Why couldn't God be the one who put the pieces in place for evolution?

 

Also, I read the other day (going back to the "father" thing), that Jesus said the Pharices (spelling?) and some other group were often caught up in doing what someone of high religious status was suppose to do ie) wear certain clothes, regular religious laws, etc. I kind of feel that Catholics have done that. There was a ton of things at the Catholic church I saw them do that I found superfluous (spelling again). Then I read those few passages about getting caught up in it and not doing what you're supposed to be doing (praiding God, Jesus, etc.) and it took me back a little bit to when I thought that stuff was a little much and didn't seem necessary.

 

Just a couple thoughts.

 

By the way, when I enter the J&D forum, I feel like I'm in the porn shop. I'm not really sure how to act or what to say because I don't want to offend anyone or make anyone feel uncomfortable.

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I'm not hear to say they can't.

When it comes to evolution, I dont see the sense in arguing in the face of such robust consensus, and not just among scientific opinions but consensus between scores of different fields of study and volumes upon volumes of peer reviewed data.

 

You know,  I had convinced myself not to say anything else, but your argument of evolution requires a response.  Disregard the time element of Genesis chapter 1, the idea that "God" created everything a day at a time, and tell me what part of it truly differs from your theory of evolution?  From nothingness becomes something, the big bang.  Separation of the heavens from the firmament, Earth developing an atmosphere, life beginning in the water and then coming onto land, land life starting as birds, aren't dinosaurs and birds similar?  The beginning of mammals after that on the land, and finally the beginning of mankind coming from the earth.  If you take the time to simply look at it, wouldn't that be the way an uneducated person might have explained the same evolutionary theory that our scientific community has spent all of these years proving?  My problem with both sides is that they are so stuck in their Dogma that neither can see the similarities of themselves in each others books of understanding. 

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You know,  I had convinced myself not to say anything else, but your argument of evolution requires a response.  Disregard the time element of Genesis chapter 1, the idea that "God" created everything a day at a time, and tell me what part of it truly differs from your theory of evolution?  From nothingness becomes something, the big bang.  Separation of the heavens from the firmament, Earth developing an atmosphere, life beginning in the water and then coming onto land, land life starting as birds, aren't dinosaurs and birds similar?  The beginning of mammals after that on the land, and finally the beginning of mankind coming from the earth.  If you take the time to simply look at it, wouldn't that be the way an uneducated person might have explained the same evolutionary theory that our scientific community has spent all of these years proving?  My problem with both sides is that they are so stuck in their Dogma that neither can see the similarities of themselves in each others books of understanding. 

 

At times, it becomes about who's got the bigger dick than actual discussion.  Completely agree. 

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Why couldn't God be the one who put the pieces in place for evolution?

 

Also, I read the other day (going back to the "father" thing), that Jesus said the Pharices (spelling?) and some other group were often caught up in doing what someone of high religious status was suppose to do ie) wear certain clothes, regular religious laws, etc. I kind of feel that Catholics have done that. There was a ton of things at the Catholic church I saw them do that I found superfluous (spelling again). Then I read those few passages about getting caught up in it and not doing what you're supposed to be doing (praiding God, Jesus, etc.) and it took me back a little bit to when I thought that stuff was a little much and didn't seem necessary.

 

Just a couple thoughts.

 

By the way, when I enter the J&D forum, I feel like I'm in the porn shop. I'm not really sure how to act or what to say because I don't want to offend anyone or make anyone feel uncomfortable.

 

I think as long as you're stating your beliefs without ridiculing others for theirs, by all means visit and give your input.  Be yourself...you're a good dude, it'll come across.  Don't let hurting someone's feelings deter you from posting if your post isn't offensive.    Different perspectives are required for growth.  If I only read things I agreed with, I'd be a sad person in terms of development. 

 

And to your first point....I think from an Islamic perspective, the beginning of life, origins of life are completely parallel between Islam and science.  We started from a single cell.....  The first "life" was from water.  Science confirms all these things.   Not sure why squirrelnuts has to be a dick to people just because his field is biological in nature.  I guess he just assumes he knows more than the rest here.....flawed thinking.  Can't stand people like that.  <----Offensive....but I don't really give a shit about dude.  See how J&D works?  :lol: 

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At times, it becomes about who's got the bigger dick than actual discussion.  Completely agree. 

 

 


My favorite author...

 

 

“My most recent faith struggle is not one of intellect. I don’t really
do that anymore. Sooner or later you just figure out there are some guys
who don’t believe in God and they can prove He doesn't exist, and there
are some other guys who do believe in God and they can prove He does
exist, and the argument stopped being about God a long time ago and now
it’s about who is smarter, and honestly I don’t care.” - Donald Miller


 


;)

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I think as long as you're stating your beliefs without ridiculing others for theirs, by all means visit and give your input.  Be yourself...you're a good dude, it'll come across.  Don't let hurting someone's feelings deter you from posting if your post isn't offensive.    Different perspectives are required for growth.  If I only read things I agreed with, I'd be a sad person in terms of development. 
 
And to your first point....I think from an Islamic perspective, the beginning of life, origins of life are completely parallel between Islam and science.  We started from a single cell.....  The first "life" was from water.  Science confirms all these things.   Not sure why squirrelnuts has to be a dick to people just because his field is biological in nature.  I guess he just assumes he knows more than the rest here.....flawed thinking.  Can't stand people like that.  <----Offensive....but I don't really give a shit about dude.  See how J&D works?  :lol: 


Ha!

A lot of things in here are political and I'm not a political person at all. I had a discussion with this completely crazy guy... he told me that I needed to visit a couple websites and read up on "what's really happening". One was the Drudge Report. Before I visited he was telling me all these theories like 9/11 was a US government job and all that crazy stuff. He always, and I mean always, went on and on about big brother, Uncle Sam, whatever screwing him or taking advantage of him or whatnot. It was like he knew something was happening, something bad, and that this Drudge Report was the truth and showed how bad it was throughout our nation and world. I told him I went with the flow and that I knew I wasn't going to change anything so I may as well accept what's happening and live within my normal circle until I couldn't anymore. He couldn't believe I didn't know "what was going on". I asked him why I should believe everything this guy is reporting and always think something bad is going to happen, and why he is so on top of it but doesn't do anything about it and just worries. He told me knowing was all he needed and I should be scared. He weirded me out.
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All it takes is to feel the presence of God. Once you feel it, you still may be a rotten little shit head, but you'll know.

Go to church, start reading the Bible, feed the hungry, pray, ask for forgiveness, help people... you'll feel it.

It's crazy as shit.

No, no, no.
Go on a hike into the wilderness, stop on the side of a mountain and look out into the beauty surrounding you. Sit down and smoke some herb, close your eyes and contemplate the meaning of life. Now open your eyes and try to tell me you aren't looking at God's handiwork.
I know certain things work better for certain people but I've felt my spirituality grow stronger after turning my back on the churches built by man and seeking out those that occur naturally all around us. I am not sure what I think about Jesus other than that he was a very smart and compassionate person that taught us some really good stuff about how to interpret religion. I do think there is a God or "cosmic architect" and that all the mysteries of the universe will be revealed to us in death. I believe in an afterlife where things like sadness, greed and anger do not exist, an afterlife where Hitler eats lunch with Einstein because when our consciousness is given the true knowledge of the universe, the things we did in our human form cease to matter in the least bit.
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No, no, no.
Go on a hike into the wilderness, stop on the side of a mountain and look out into the beauty surrounding you. Sit down and smoke some herb, close your eyes and contemplate the meaning of life. Now open your eyes and try to tell me you aren't looking at God's handiwork.
I know certain things work better for certain people but I've felt my spirituality grow stronger after turning my back on the churches built by man and seeking out those that occur naturally all around us. I am not sure what I think about Jesus other than that he was a very smart and compassionate person that taught us some really good stuff about how to interpret religion. I do think there is a God or "cosmic architect" and that all the mysteries of the universe will be revealed to us in death. I believe in an afterlife where things like sadness, greed and anger do not exist, an afterlife where Hitler eats lunch with Einstein because when our consciousness is given the true knowledge of the universe, the things we did in our human form cease to matter in the least bit.

 

 

 

 

I agree with almost everything you said. Except the Hitler part. 

 

 

Anyway, the beginning of your post reminded me of this guy ...

 

28081939.jpg

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Ha!

A lot of things in here are political and I'm not a political person at all. I had a discussion with this completely crazy guy... he told me that I needed to visit a couple websites and read up on "what's really happening". One was the Drudge Report. Before I visited he was telling me all these theories like 9/11 was a US government job and all that crazy stuff. He always, and I mean always, went on and on about big brother, Uncle Sam, whatever screwing him or taking advantage of him or whatnot. It was like he knew something was happening, something bad, and that this Drudge Report was the truth and showed how bad it was throughout our nation and world. I told him I went with the flow and that I knew I wasn't going to change anything so I may as well accept what's happening and live within my normal circle until I couldn't anymore. He couldn't believe I didn't know "what was going on". I asked him why I should believe everything this guy is reporting and always think something bad is going to happen, and why he is so on top of it but doesn't do anything about it and just worries. He told me knowing was all he needed and I should be scared. He weirded me out.

 

Haha....yeah he seemed to be a little out there.  That's the problem with conspiracy theorists.  Many of them come up with the most irrational, outlandish theory and as a result, invalidate the purpose of people who seek the truth.   I don't buy any of the government's official stories on major events....one bit.....but I also don't know what truly went down so I keep my mouth shut.  You can discredit yourself very easily that way.  I'll voice my doubts though. 

 

Come around here, post.....it makes the offseason go by a little faster haha. 

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No, no, no.
Go on a hike into the wilderness, stop on the side of a mountain and look out into the beauty surrounding you. Sit down and smoke some herb, close your eyes and contemplate the meaning of life. Now open your eyes and try to tell me you aren't looking at God's handiwork.
I know certain things work better for certain people but I've felt my spirituality grow stronger after turning my back on the churches built by man and seeking out those that occur naturally all around us. I am not sure what I think about Jesus other than that he was a very smart and compassionate person that taught us some really good stuff about how to interpret religion. I do think there is a God or "cosmic architect" and that all the mysteries of the universe will be revealed to us in death. I believe in an afterlife where things like sadness, greed and anger do not exist, an afterlife where Hitler eats lunch with Einstein because when our consciousness is given the true knowledge of the universe, the things we did in our human form cease to matter in the least bit.

 

 

Yeah, I was with you until the Hitler and Einstein part.  No seriously, I agree with much of what you're saying.  I definitely don't believe that Jesus is God or the son of God or anything like that.  One of the best MEN to have ever walked this planet?  Definitely, but not divine.  There's actually a pretty good book by a guy named Ahmad Thomson called "What Jesus Really Said" or something to that effect.  Need to read the whole book, read part of it a while back and was very intrigued. 

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I suspect they don't offer the McRIb... 

 

Israel does not serve pork in the other 120 McDonalds in Israel which are not Kosher (40 McDonald's are considered kosher). 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_Israel

 

Currently McDonald's has 160 restaurants in Israel, with 40 of them under Kosher supervision.
 
As in Arab and Muslim countries, McDonald's restaurants in Israel do not serve pork products.
 

Oddly enough, Germany has made the McRib sandwich a permanent part of their menu.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_availability_of_McDonald's_products

 

The McRib sandwich, a seasonal item in most countries, is a permanent menu item in Germany


Or even a cheeseburger, if I understand correctly.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_Israel

 

In their Non-Kosher McDonald's they do.

 

However, they have been criticized by Jewish religious leaders for serving cheeseburgers and employing Jewish workers on Saturdays, the Jewish Sabbath.

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