The PatternMaster Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 I see there is a big love affair with Matt Elam on this board, he was the first round pick the members mock draft, and alot of people think he's the second best safety in the draft. Personally I don't agree with all of the Matt Elam hype that is going on around here, I just don't get it. I think Elam is a good player but not worth the 21st pick in the draft and not the second best safety. I have Elam ranked as the 5th best safety behind Vaccarro, Cyprien, Reid, and Swearinger. I think Elam and Swearinger are probably neck and neck for the fifth best safety in the draft. My question is why do some many people on this board think Elam is worthy of the 21st pick and why he's better than guys like Cyprien, Reid, or Swearinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 He's one of the better cover guys (which, as per the Hobson article today, we want in our Safeties), as well as a guy that can really bring the wood. IMO, the tackles that he misses are mostly because he leaves his feet - and not the much more egregious flaw of taking bad angles (which a lot of Safeties in this draft are guilty of). He's an impact player that will bring swagger and toughness to the D and IMO would also pair nicely with Reggie Nelson. All that said, I don't think he's worth #21. I'm not convinced that any of the S prospects are (Vacarro is quick footed and very good in the slot, but he lacks deep-cover long speed, and might be a liability if he trades responsibilities with Nelson on certain downs). Truth is, I think there are about 15-20 true 1st round guys in this draft (followed by about 60-75 guys that might get 2nd round value). Sadly, based on where we pick, we are probably going to have to take someone slightly above their value (assuming someone doesn't slide). Of course, trading down some slots would be great. I'd be very pleased with Elam in the 27-37 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Over. I see a guy like Bernard Pollard. Can lay a big hit, but is going to miss quite a few and also not going to be great in coverage. He would undoubtedly start across from Reg though, so I wouldn't be upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Last thing, given Marvin's recent comments, I'd actually say the guy that the conversation should come down to Vacarro and Eric Reid. Not in terms of comparison, but in terms of who would might be the first two on our board (Swearinger is also 5'10"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenM Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Vaccaro is the one who is overrated. I know some team will reach for him in round one. They'll regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Link: http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2013/04/17/the-tape-never-lies-is-matt-elam-best-suited-to-be-a-box-safety/ The Tape Never Lies: Is Matt Elam best suited to be a “box safety”? Posted by Alen Dumonjic under 2013 NFL draft, The Tape Never Lies on Apr 17, 2013 There’s only a few days left of critiquing draft prospects before they go off to another city, where they’ll play in another scheme and for a new team. Team fit is such an important aspect of drafting a player because it is frequently the deciding factor in how successful he is. If he’s playing in the wrong locker room, position, or scheme, then there’s a good chance the player will fail to develop. It’s why when there are conundrums like what position Florida safety Matt Elam will play in the pros, it’s important to ask all of the questions that come to mind. Elam is an intriguing prospect who has many split on his potential, which is a good reason to ask what his true position in the pros will be. Is he a center-field safety who roams the middle of the field and covers sideline-to-sideline? What about at split-field safety that’s only responsible for half of the field? What about in the box like a traditional strong safety? No, seriously, what about in the box? I realize “box safeties” are considered old school, but they will be making a comeback when teams start to play even more nickel packages that feature three safeties. The three-safety package (commonly referred to as the “big nickel”) is going to be a greater part of gameplans as defenses evolve to defend spread passing games. The reason for that is because defenses need to flood the underneath to stop the endless quick passes and simultaneously defend the run, which — contrary to the “it’s a passing league!” reports — is still as important as ever. It’s also an effective way to combat offenses because it allows the underneath defenders to be physical with slot receivers and tight ends, all the while possessing athleticism that linebackers don’t always have. It’s worked for the New York Giants, among other teams, the last few years, most notably during the 2012 Super Bowl against the New England Patriots. As I wrote at the time, the Giants were a little more daring with their scheme because they inverted their coverage, but the big nickel package allowed them to control the underneath by dominating the Patriots’ slot receivers and tight ends, which disrupted the rhythm of quarterback Tom Brady. That brings us back to Elam, who was a versatile defender with the Gators and a fit as a slot defender in the big nickel package. He played all of the roles that were questioned earlier, but he was at his best when around the line of scrimmage. Despite his 5-foot-10, 208-pound frame, he is an excellent run defender because of his aggressiveness while attacking alleys, and he’s more than willing to be physical when tackling. His run defense can be seen at the 2:14 mark in the video below, where he’s lined up in the slot near the top of the screen. When the play begins, Elam patiently shuffles his feet as he reads the run, which is coming to his side. He mirrors the receiver, who attempts and fails to cut block him, and then comes in and fills the alley, where he tackles the ball-carrier. He’s fearless coming downhill, which is an important trait because it can set the tone of a game. It’s also something you can’t always say about defensive backs. As for pass coverage, he shows quick feet and physicality, and that enables him to stick to slot receivers in man coverage. That can be seen at the 7:45 mark in the video below, where Elam is shaded inside a Louisville slot receiver in man coverage. At the snap, he comes forward and gets his hands on the receiver, who is slowed down and then fails to separate as the play develops. He’s also a good defender in zone coverage, although there are times when he’s late expanding to his landmark. That lateness allowed quarterbacks to rifle in throws through the windows of the coverage. He needs to do a better job preventing that or he’ll be responsible for a significant portion of the passing yardage his NFL team gives up. While Elam is talented enough to play in the slot, there are questions about his size, or lack thereof. It’s been pointed out by numerous people that his size puts him at a disadvantage against tight ends, who are becoming more like slot receivers in today’s NFL. That’s an issue moving forward if he’s going to play in the slot. But what if he plays single-high or split-field safety? There’s not much difference, and one could make a valid argument that with defenses playing more Cover 2 Man (Man Under) coverage, he’s better fit to be a slot defender because he’ll have more freedom to attack the ball underneath while receiving help over the top from a deep safety. The reality is that every player has weaknesses. You can pick out any prospect in this year’s draft class and slice him up, but it defeats the point of the evaluation. The point is to find players who can contribute to the team, which Giants general manager Jerry Reese once brilliantly described when he said, “when you think about it, there really aren’t that many great, great football players. Most are developmental projects. Picking out the top guys and the bottom guys isn’t all that difficult. It’s seeing those guys in the middle who can play a little.” Elam’s not a top guy or the top safety. He might be a first-round pick, or he might not be. It’s tough to say this year because of the lack of top prospects. But he can contribute to a team because he has the physical skill-set to do so. He can defend the run and he can cover, though he needs to develop his technique and fundamentals in the latter area. But like Reese said, most prospects need to develop. Elam’s best suited for the slot, which some will view as a limitation. In the end, though, it may be a strength considering the expected heightened use of the big nickel package in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 overrated....I know he looked good in drills at the combine, but when I watch him in pads he just seems stiff and always a step behind the play....not an Elam fan at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 as I mentioned in another thread, I think how the safety spot shakes out between the top 5 in the draft will be based on what each specific team is looking for out of their safeties. Vaccaro is the clear cut #1 at both FS and SS. After that it will vary depending on a team is looking for a man-coverage guy, a deep centerfielder, a thumper in the run game, etc... There's 5 top 50 worthy safeties IMO, but they all have different strengths. Depends on what teams prefer. At SS I'd rank: Vaccaro Elam Reid Swearinger (Reid and Swearinger could go either way. Swearinger is more experienced, Reid more athletic and maybe more potential) Cyprien At FS I'd rank: Vaccaro (not super great deep range, but he's too good overall not to still be the best FS option) Reid Cyprien Elam Swearinger I think part of why you see guys 2-5 all over the place ranking wise is because they have different fits depending on a team needs a SS, FS or both. They will have different value to different teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Last thing, given Marvin's recent comments, I'd actually say the guy that the conversation should come down to Vacarro and Eric Reid. Not in terms of comparison, but in terms of who would might be the first two on our board (Swearinger is also 5'10"). I agree that Reid is a wild card and it wouldn't surprise me to see them trade down a few spots to grab him and pick up a 3rd. I've watched a whole lot of Reid this weekend, as well as Bengals games from the last 2 years, and he'd be a very good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted April 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Last thing, given Marvin's recent comments, I'd actually say the guy that the conversation should come down to Vacarro and Eric Reid. Not in terms of comparison, but in terms of who would might be the first two on our board (Swearinger is also 5'10"). I have a feeling that Reid will be the first round pick, he fits the mold as a good solid character guy who can start from day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 The thing that worries me about Reid is his coverage ability. Am I worrying too much about this aspect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 The thing that worries me about Reid is his coverage ability. Am I worrying too much about this aspect? what kind of coverage, man or deep coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 what kind of coverage, man or deep coverage? Man coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Man coverage. from what I've seen he is capable, but wasn't asked to a lot. He's not nearly experienced at it as Vaccaro, Elam and Swearinger. I'd put him above Cyprien in that respect though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 The other thing is Reid is currently an in-the-box safety imo. He makes plays in coverage but also gets burned. I'd feel better about drafting Reid in the first if we were to sign Kerry Rhodes after the draft. Then Reid could back up Rhodes for a year or two until he improves his man and deep coverage to a more consistent level. Because he certainly has the athleticism necessary for the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Rhodes can teach the rookie about "deep man" coverage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 properly rated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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