EnglishBengal Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Been doing a lot of watching vids on these coz it could be likely one of these gets picked by us at 21. Eric Reid: Strengths: - Height - Good insincts - Leadershup - Good character - Physicality, a real enforcer - Can make impact plays - Good angles in run game - Can shed blocks - Good at winning contesting balls in passing game - Supreme athleticism in relation to size Weaknesses: - Inconsistent tackler - Even though has been lined up in various coverages - man and deep centre field, he doesn't play any of them consistently well enough - Adequate at covering shorter routes when play is in front of him - Sometimes gets faked out on double moves in open field and lacks recovery speed when defender gets past him - Looks stiff in open field and hips don't swivel enough to recover position at times - Inconsistent in general - for every great hit/interception he gets burned equally as much (truely hot and cold) - Guy is more effective as a SS right now, and is not consistent enough to be effective otherwise at this point Matt Elam Strengths: - Great Instincts - Leader, has an x-factor when he's on the field - Physical - Very strong for size, and easily shed blocks - Fast and sudden - Underrated coverage skills in man, zone and deep centre field, nearly always in position to make a play on receiver - Nice ball skills in passing game - Can recover somewhat if beaten initially by receiver - Always takes good angles run support - No wasted steps Weaknesses: - Tackling, doesn't wrap up (not sure if this is due to his arm length at times, reminds me of Brandon Boykin in this respect) - Gets beaten in the passing game by taller receivers (though at least you can't blame it on his ball skills) - Sometimes stands around watching too much when not involved in the play - Plays too reckless at times, needs more disciplined coaching at next level - Height is biggest concern here, as despite his great ball skills and being in position for the most part he doesn't have enough explosion in his leap to even compete for jump balls with bigger receivers Jonathan Cyprien Strengths: - Hieght - Very versatile, can play anywhere in the field - Non-stop motor on every play - Great leader (very infectious in field and fiery with it), the type of guy who makes players rally around him - Above average closing speed, very sudden - Physical - Above average instincts - Good angles in run game - Above average tackler (at least he wraps up) - Played in man (some), zone (mostly), and patrolled all over field to above adequate level - Good balls skills for most part - Good instincts for most part - Even though 40 time is slow, he's a long strider and looks faster on tape as a result Weaknesses: - Gets washed out in run game at times, can't always shed his blocks - Misses some tackles (like most safeties in this class) - Instincts still need SLIGHT improvement, gets faked out by play action passes at times leading to big plays and occasionally a step late as a result Conclusion There are probably other strengths and weaknesses I could have mentioned here but I only mentioned what stuck out to me. In terms of Eric Reid, I don't see him as a fit at this point for the Bengals because he's not consistent enough in coverage and given how we get abused by the TE's each year, this is a big no no in my book. However, I will say this, I think Reid could ultimately end up being the best safety in this class 2-3 years down the road. However, the Bengals can't afford that luxury and need someone I feel who has a better starting point as far as coverage ability. Elam fits the bill, and his poor tackling technique is something that can be corrected at the next level in my opinion. However, his unfortunate god given lack of height (he's actaually about 1.5 inches shorter than Crocker) combined with a pretty poor vertical leap to make up for it, I see him getting exposed by the better passing offenses over the top and by bigger tight ends. With Cyprien, he;s probably the most versatile and doesn't excel in any one given area but plays them all at an ACCEPTABLE level without standing out too much. The thing that concerns me about Cyprien is his ability to consistently shed blocks in the run game and play action recognition. However, I think both these faults are correctable by good coaching and adding a little more strength in the weight room. Also, one more note on Mr. Cyprien, the consensus on the board seems to be that his college tape is sub-par to his Senior Bowl tape. That may be the case but I saw the little things more in Cyprien's game on the game tape that impressed me as much as the highlights from the other two guys. Also, Cyprien's experience in a substandard conference doesn't impact it much for me. It was no coincidence that, when he had proper pro coaching for the first time, he responded at the Senior Bowl in a big way, whch tells me he's very good learner and his coaching at college level may have been a little sub standard (weaker conference) in itself for him to not always stand out on game tape. On this basis, I would select Jonathan Cyprien with the 21st pick, and groom him under Kerry Rhodes (who we should sign immediately after the draft) for a year or two. He has the best foundation in terms of existing skills to work with at this point and is versatile enough to be used in a variety of different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I wouldn't put tackling as a weakness under Reid. I'd say he's an excellent tackler. Watch him play against Alabama. I think your final analysis is exactly why they won't take Cyprien. They can't afford to groom anyone, and its questionable that he's pro ready. They need a guy who can step in from day one and be the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texbengal Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I wouldn't put tackling as a weakness under Reid. I'd say he's an excellent tackler. Watch him play against Alabama. I think your final analysis is exactly why they won't take Cyprien. They can't afford to groom anyone, and its questionable that he's pro ready. They need a guy who can step in from day one and be the starter. I think Reid had a subpar year (for him) because he did miss more than a few tackles this past fall, but generally, I think he's a very solid tackler. Very smooth athlete, smart, and a leader, too. Seems like he and Vaccaro might be more "pro ready" than the others, but I guess we'll find out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I just can't get past Reid's lack coverage ability though. I get a feeling he will get exposed by faster players like Tavon Austin. He takes false steps at times and doesn't recover well enough once caught out of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I think Reid had a subpar year (for him) because he did miss more than a few tackles this past fall, but generally, I think he's a very solid tackler. Very smooth athlete, smart, and a leader, too. Seems like he and Vaccaro might be more "pro ready" than the others, but I guess we'll find out soon enough. How much of his struggles this year were due to not having mo Claiborne and Matthieu at corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 How much of his struggles this year were due to not having mo Claiborne and Matthieu at corner? A fair bit imo. Don't forget Brandon Taylor at FS as well he was a stud in that team. So take that supporting cast away and he's a little worse off. BUT you also have to factor in that he was playing SS when those guys were on the team, and was moved to FS last year and had less of a supporting cast to contend with. With this in mind I am going to go back and try and watch some of Reid's 2011 tape as that may give a better indication of what we would get out of him, given he was playing SS at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 A fair bit imo. Don't forget Brandon Taylor at FS as well he was a stud in that team. So take that supporting cast away and he's a little worse off. BUT you also have to factor in that he was playing SS when those guys were on the team, and was moved to FS last year and had less of a supporting cast to contend with. With this in mind I am going to go back and try and watch some of Reid's 2011 tape as that may give a better indication of what we would get out of him, given he was playing SS at that time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-nJWVU4eJI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-nJWVU4eJI He's a good tackler it seems. THough the earlier clip showed some missed tackles. Like I said, all this year's safeties aren't perfect tacklers. But after looking at this tape I would rank - 1 Reid, 2 Cyprien, 3 Elam - in terms of tackling ability. And I dd like the play he made on the contested catch at the goal line to wrestle the ball away from the receiver and prevent the TD. However, I have some questions for you 1181.... Do you honestly think Reid's coverage ability (or lack of at times) would leave him exposed in today's NFL, even with him playing strong safety? What do you honestly think of his coverage ability compared to Elam and Cyprien? How do you think he would translate to Zimmer's scheme and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 I have to agree with English. Reid just looks uncomfortable moving backwards and doesn't seem to do a very good job reading the QB and going to the spot. I rank them: Cyprien Reid Elam Also, That video of Reid reminds me how much more dynamic Richardson was compared to Lacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 He's a good tackler it seems. THough the earlier clip showed some missed tackles. Like I said, all this year's safeties aren't perfect tacklers. But after looking at this tape I would rank - 1 Reid, 2 Cyprien, 3 Elam - in terms of tackling ability. And I dd like the play he made on the contested catch at the goal line to wrestle the ball away from the receiver and prevent the TD. However, I have some questions for you 1181.... Do you honestly think Reid's coverage ability (or lack of at times) would leave him exposed in today's NFL, even with him playing strong safety? What do you honestly think of his coverage ability compared to Elam and Cyprien? How do you think he would translate to Zimmer's scheme and why? what kind of coverage are we talking? Man? A deep center fielder role? In man coverage, I'd go: Vaccaro Elam Swearinger Reid Cyprien In deep coverage: Reid/Cyprien Vaccaro Elam Swearinger Zone underneath (biggest weakness of the Bengals D last year) Vaccaro Reid Elam Swearinger Cyprien Run Support Elam Vaccaro Reid Cyprien Swearinger Blitzing Vaccaro Elam Reid Swearinger Cyprien (can't recall him ever blitzing) Sorry, I don't know the names of all the different coverages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Overall Best Bengals Fit IMO: Vaccaro Reid Elam (Elam and Reid could go in either order IMO) Swearinger Cyprien If they didn't need someone to start from day one, you could argue Cyprien over Swearinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishBengal Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 what kind of coverage are we talking? Man? A deep center fielder role? In man coverage, I'd go: Vaccaro Elam Swearinger Reid Cyprien In deep coverage: Reid/Cyprien Vaccaro Elam Swearinger Zone underneath (biggest weakness of the Bengals D last year) Vaccaro Reid Elam Swearinger Cyprien Run Support Elam Vaccaro Reid Cyprien Swearinger Blitzing Vaccaro Elam Reid Swearinger Cyprien (can't recall him ever blitzing) Sorry, I don't know the names of all the different coverages. Nice in depth post. Btw, I haven't seen much of Cyprien blitzing either but I remember reading one of the scout articles saying he's an excellent blitzer who compares to Brian Dawkins in many aspects of his game, including blitzing. Not a bad comparison imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Nice in depth post. Btw, I haven't seen much of Cyprien blitzing either but I remember reading one of the scout articles saying he's an excellent blitzer who compares to Brian Dawkins in many aspects of his game, including blitzing. Not a bad comparison imo. hopefully some new Cyprien tape pops up soon. One of the guys who does a lot of the play-by-play youtube videos said he's got some tape of Cyprien from 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Nice in depth post. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmishBengalFan Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Whomever takes Elam gets with it an awesome palindrome, often attributed to noneother than Napoleon Bonaparte: " .... male was I ere I saw Elam ... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey6866 Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I wouldent take Reid or Cyprien until 2b at the earliest and even then I wouldent really like the pick. I like Shamarko Thomas better than either of them. I would rank the safety's as far as what would work best in Zimmers system: 1. Vaccaro 2. Elam 3. Thomas 4. Rambo 5. Cyprien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I keep hearing bits and pieces about Elam not being able to cover as well as the others? Thoughts on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I keep hearing bits and pieces about Elam not being able to cover as well as the others? Thoughts on that? he's not a deep center field, but after Vaccaro he's the best man cover safety in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 silly defending Super Bowl champions using a first round pick on a 5'10" safety. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 silly defending Super Bowl champions using a first round pick on a 5'10" safety. :) That will be brutally exploited by Eifert twice a year. Win for the Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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