scharm Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 This argument is stupid - People trying to justify a corrupt IRS, going back and forth setting up straw man arguments... There is one simple issue here. You have a corrupt, Chicago-style thug administration that has enemy lists, goes after select private citizens, business owners, tries to intimidate, coerce, silence them, destroy their lives, destroy their businesses, make their lives a living hell, illegally publishes personal information and financial records, lists of donors, etc so they can be more easily targeted, demands that organizations turn over information about private citizens, all in attempt to destroy anyone who dare to oppose their political agenda. That's what's going on here. Period. It's just sad that we have some morons on this board attempting to rationalize or justify it. And it all starts at the top, where you have a corrupt, despicable human being running the country, one who would be more suited to being a dictator running some third world banana republic. I really don't have a stomach for this type of attitude either. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. But let's have the investigation and see what becomes of it first. People trying to run this up to the Whitehouse so quickly are just as bad as the ones accepting it was low level rouge employees at face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I don't think that saying applies here. We don't have a president who was corrupted by absolute power. We elected one who was already extremely corrupt and despicable. We didn't create a monster - we elected one. Hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Yup, Bush started it. Obama's expanding it. You know what they say about absolute power. We've created a monster. I fear we are all fucked. I'm inclined to agree, except I would argue that the seeds of this go back even further than Dubya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I don't think that saying applies here. We don't have a president who was corrupted by absolute power. We elected one who was already extremely corrupt and despicable. We didn't create a monster - we elected one. I would like to hear your argument for this with a few cites. Not that I disagree completely, but I might not be as strident as you. Clearly the guy was selected and groomed for the job (Pritzker, et al.) but, monster... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I'm inclined to agree, except I would argue that the seeds of this go back even further than Dubya. Definitely. In your opinion, though, just how far back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I can't believe people are surprised about the cell phone and internet thing. Even staunch liberals know how Obama has reneged on his promises regarding anything having to do with civil liberties vs. homeland security. While I think Ron Paul is a wingnut, he is absolutely right about this. x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I'm inclined to agree, except I would argue that the seeds of this go back even further than Dubya. x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Who gets to name such hearings and control the speaking paremters? Maybe he had to do it now or never? He's a Representative... surely he can request such a hearing through his Democratic DC leadership. I guess what I think is even funnier is him defending the IRS like he has a stake in it or something. I don't think that saying applies here. We don't have a president who was corrupted by absolute power. We elected one who was already extremely corrupt and despicable. We didn't create a monster - we elected one. Ummm... pretty much, as our political spectrum goes presently anybody that has a legit opportunity to get elected is going to be "extremely corrup and despicable"... we've created a monster that will only get worse. Is your contention that we should've elected honest, hardworking man-of-the-people Mitt Romney? There isn't a legit contender to the white house anymore that is a "hardworking man of the people"... Democrat, Republican either one. Why anybody here would justify or defend various people in government today is beyond me... it's like the fuck ups just keep piling up. Is some of it a witch hunt? Sure, but does it make it any less valid? I will say the "I didn't have knowledge of the events" or "my counsel has advised me to exercise my constitutional right to not testify" has gotten so old its amazing... if you have nothing to hide then answer questions... if a particular question then comes you don't feel comfortable then no comment that question (it wouldn't make it any better as the implication would still be that you're hiding something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 He's a Representative... surely he can request such a hearing through his Democratic DC leadership. I guess what I think is even funnier is him defending the IRS like he has a stake in it or something. Dont we all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Why anybody here would justify or defend various people in government today is beyond me... it's like the fuck ups just keep piling up. Is some of it a witch hunt? Sure, but does it make it any less valid? I will say the "I didn't have knowledge of the events" or "my counsel has advised me to exercise my constitutional right to not testify" has gotten so old its amazing... if you have nothing to hide then answer questions... if a particular question then comes you don't feel comfortable then no comment that question (it wouldn't make it any better as the implication would still be that you're hiding something). I dont nessasarily defend the people running it, but I will defend the necessity of the institutions tooth and nail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Definitely. In your opinion, though, just how far back? I would say Kissinger, though I'm sure Homer will go back even further. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I dont nessasarily defend the people running it, but I will defend the necessity of the institutions tooth and nail. Not to derail topic but wanted to clarify... you're defending the necessity to have all the government institutions? As in, having the IRS as opposed to a flat tax or some such thing... Do you think we have much waste / over-staffing within each of these institutions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Not to derail topic but wanted to clarify... you're defending the necessity to have all the government institutions? As in, having the IRS as opposed to a flat tax or some such thing... Do you think we have much waste / over-staffing within each of these institutions? To claifiy, we can have discussions on the potential for streamlining various goverment institutions (for example I wouldn't hate seeing the Fed fall under the Treasury), that is a conversation well worth having. But yes I am defending the need for the IRS for the purposes of collecting revenue the government needs to run. Those Ron Paul/Ted Cruz "The IRS should be aboloished" folks are idiots and need a good punch in the face. The flat tax or fair tax I am wholely opposed for good reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 the election was to destroy America..the election was rigged so we move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 the election was to destroy America..the election was rigged so we move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Not to derail the conversation but I don't really care about all of the phone records discussion etc. I think its a necessary evil and not too much of an evil at that. If you want the government to catch bad guys you have to give them tools to effectively do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Finklestein Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Not to derail the conversation but I don't really care about all of the phone records discussion etc. I think its a necessary evil and not too much of an evil at that. If you want the government to catch bad guys you have to give them tools to effectively do that. Really? It's ok to data mine the metadata of EVERYONE on the off chance they might find something? The 4th Amendment says that ANY warrant must be supported by probable cause. I seriously doubt everyone is planning terrorist activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Finklestein Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 This whole NSA crap is really a different topic completely from the IRS issue. It should probably have it's own thread. However I find the NSA's activities MUCH more disturbing than the IRS crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 the election was to destroy America..the election was rigged so we move on! I absolutely agree, elections suck because the majority is dumb as shit. Our leaders should be chosen through trial by combat, and the winner should serve for life with rulership being passed down to their nearest male heir. Unless a black guy wins; then it's obviously rigged and we should start buying & talking about guns an awful, awful lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Really? It's ok to data mine the metadata of EVERYONE on the off chance they might find something? The 4th Amendment says that ANY warrant must be supported by probable cause. I seriously doubt everyone is planning terrorist activities. Yep, Doesn't have a negative affect on me in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenM Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Yep, Doesn't have a negative affect on me in any way. I just love the complete ignorance and stupidity of some people. You'd make a great nazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I just love the complete ignorance and stupidity of some people. You'd make a great nazi. Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenM Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Please explain. Should be self-explanatory. But if you need me to, I will. Right after you publicly post all the login info and passwords for all your e-mail accounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Should be self-explanatory. But if you need me to, I will. Right after you publicly post all the login info and passwords for all your e-mail accounts Huh? Thats not equivalent at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Definitely. In your opinion, though, just how far back? Don't have much time right now, but for starters, see this classic from the 40s (warning: pdf.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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