BengalBacker Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I've seen this posted a couple of places, mostly conspiracy type sites so who knows? Just putting it out there. The theory is that our troops might not fire on our citizens, but foreign troops would. http://www.eutimes.net/2013/06/obama-requests-15000-russian-troops-for-upcoming-disaster/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Our troops have already fired on our citizens, most recently at Kent State. But yeah, that link seems pretty wingnutty IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 But yeah, that link seems pretty wingnutty IMO... Hopefully, but it's hard to say anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 you've really conviced yourself of this whole post-apocalyptic going down in flames version of America havent you? SMH Oh and happy belated independence day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'm convinced it is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Personally, while I am no fan of the loss of some of our civil liberties, and think the finicial crisis isnt over and isnt fixed, I think we've seen worse in this country with regard to our personal freedoms and fiscal stability, and we got through it, the only big difference now is the citizenry wasnt as divided as it is now and generally believed the goverment had a role in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Well, I'm not that optimistic. There are a million things that could set off a chain reaction and turn the country, and the world into chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Absolutely, however it will depend on our reaction to it if things get as bad as you think they may, and like it or not that means we will have to insist that "our goverment do something for us" despite the Ted Nudgets of the world saying otherwise, if cooler heads prevail we might return to some sense of normalacy, if the flame-throwing anti-goverment (in the sens of it's role in society, and not in the sense of the facism we currently have) types do, we will be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 If services are interrupted for even a week, and people get hungry, shit will hit the fan. ETA: and it won't be those who have "prepped" that will be causing it. It will be those who haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Well, I'm not that optimistic. There are a million things that could set off a chain reaction and turn the country, and the world into chaos. Most of them have to do with crazy right wingers, guns, and militias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 If services are intrerupted even for a weak, it will be bcause those who have "prepped" are likley some of the very same who think they are T(axed) E(nough) A(lready) and have been the root cause of our basic services losing money to not be able to function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Do you read moneynews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Do you read moneynews? me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Most of them have to do with crazy right wingers, guns, and militias. How so? If services are intrerupted even for a weak, it will be bcause those who have "prepped" are likley some of the very same who think they are T(axed) E(nough) A(lready) and have been the root cause of our basic services losing money to not be able to function. That's bullshit and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I am afraid of right wing militia types who think that patriotism=anti-government and being against a president who was elected by the laws created by the founding founders they reportedly love. If stuff ever goes down it will be them, not democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 How so? That's bullshit and you know it. No it isnt bullshit, as I said these people owe he rest of us an appology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Do you even read through this stuff? From the link you posted; I've bolded the pertinent part: An unsettling report prepared by the Emergencies Ministry (EMERCOM) circulating in the Kremlin today on the just completed talks between Russia and the United States in Washington D.C. says that the Obama regime has requested at least 15,000 Russian troops trained in disaster relief and “crowd functions” [i.e. riot control] be pre-positioned to respond to FEMA Region III during an unspecified “upcoming” disaster. The first sentence of the article linked to by "just complete talks." Again, I've bolded the pertinent part: Russia and the United States will work together to improve protection against meteorites and other space threats, Russia’s emergencies minister said on Tuesday following a joint Russia-US working group meeting in Washington. My reaction to amazing leaps of faith and fear-mongering by a certain paranoid portion of the population: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|OneHeartBeat| Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Personally, while I am no fan of the loss of some of our civil liberties, and think the finicial crisis isnt over and isnt fixed, I think we've seen worse in this country with regard to our personal freedoms and fiscal stability, and we got through it, the only big difference now is the citizenry wasnt as divided as it is now and generally believed the goverment had a role in society. Most of your posts always seem to come back to the goverment solving all of our problems. Why do you have so much faith in the ability of our government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Most of your posts always seem to come back to the goverment solving all of our problems. Why do you have so much faith in the ability of our government? I am not 100% confident in the ability of our government. I am confident that they care Bout people over dollar signs. And it gives me confidence to know that..... This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watch this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration. At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress, and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door, I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school. After work, I drive my NHTSA bar back home on DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal’s inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department. I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post of FreeRepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can’t do anything right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 I dont think government is the solution to all of our problems, just largely the fiscal ones, I dont think government is going to solve social problems such as abortion, that is a problem for each individual, I think government can do things to educate, but largely that is an individual choice that I would encourage most not to make. In addition to Weston's post. (re: the proffit motive doesnt exist in government) The fact is we have been here in our history before, and it was the fault of the private sector plutocrats just like it is now. We were able to survive it not for anything the private sector did but because the people had faith in their government to fix the problems, not because they viewed goverment as the problem. People who view goverment as the problem imo are anarchists in my mind, and not a one has given me any kind of rational response to that view to show me otherwise. So when I say the tea party owes the rest of us an appology, I'm very serious. The fact is history shows us our path out of this mess and it isnt any histroy the tea party has on their side. I think the question I have for you then is how do you trust the private sector to solving all our problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 I dont think government is the solution to all of our problems, just largely the fiscal ones, I dont think government is going to solve social problems such as abortion, that is a problem for each individual, I think government can do things to educate, but largely that is an individual choice that I would encourage most not to make. In addition to Weston's post. (re: the proffit motive doesnt exist in government) I largely agree with this... I think there must be some guard rails to reign in a lot of the financial aspects or else you have problems. My only addition to this would be that there doesn't seem to be any checks and balances to how large the government engine is either though. I think it needs guard rails as well. And this spans a lot of presidencies... Homeland Security office, CFPB, Affordable Heathcare act, etc., etc., etc. all added HUGE budget line items that the citizens taxes then must pay. And, either cuts are made elsewhere to offset or taxes are increased. I don't think we have enough guard rails in either instance at this point. I keep coming back to history... most recently the Roman Empire... we're traveling down the EXACT same road the Roman Empire did... and I foresee the same result at some point in our future. You know what they say about history and repeating itself... and from this aspect I'm not referring to the government aspect alone but the societal aspects as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 I said this to Rick in a different thread, and since you brought it up, it bears repeating. Big vs Small goverment is a false dichotomy in my mind. The argument shouldn't be is goverment too big or too small, it should be where is goverment working or not working and to fix where it is not working and leave it alone where it is working. Rome imo fell not for what it did for it's people, but because it tried to expand its empire beyond where it could reasonably do so. If that is the comparison you wish to make then I completely agree, as time and again I have said I am against US imperalism, if you wish to say Rome fell because of domestic programs, I will respectfully disagree. I think we are looking at a reoccurance of the things that happened in the 20s that led up to the depression and we should be looking at the response we had for it as to what we should be doing to fix the mess now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 I said this to Rick in a different thread, and since you brought it up, it bears repeating. Big vs Small goverment is a false dichotomy in my mind. The argument shouldn't be is goverment too big or too small, it should be where is goverment working or not working and to fix where it is not working and leave it alone where it is working. Rome imo fell not for what it did for it's people, but because it tried to expand its empire beyond where it could reasonably do so. If that is the comparison you wish to make then I completely agree, as time and again I have said I am against US imperalism, if you wish to say Rome fell because of domestic programs, I will respectfully disagree. I think we are looking at a reoccurance of the things that happened in the 20s that led up to the depression and we should be looking at the response we had for it as to what we should be doing to fix the mess now. I would agree to this as well... the problem is that the de facto answer to the "not working" is build a new agency to monitor X, Y, and Z. It's always we need a new agency. When was the last time you saw a downsize to the extent (in terms of people and dollars) that we've seen with just the 3 things I mentioned above that have increased government? As for Rome... I feel it was a combination of things. It grew too big to manage - at one point the sun never set on it... but additionally, the extremes from a societal standpoint at the end that were reached were pretty far-reaching. In my opinion, the fights over abortion, gay marriage, etc. push into those same levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 As for Rome... I feel it was a combination of things. It grew too big to manage - at one point the sun never set on it... but additionally, the extremes from a societal standpoint at the end that were reached were pretty far-reaching. You're thinking of the British Empire. Just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 With the expanding population I wouldnt expect government to shrink. Now can there be things that can be streamlined? Sure, and I'm not completely in disagreement with you regarding the need for new agencies an example being department of homeland security, just didnt think it was nessasary to create something for things we were already doing. However I am very much in favor of the consumer financial protection bureau as I didn't see where we had something like this for consumers. However at the same time I am on the side of elimating the FED but not it's functions and bringing it back under the treasury as a national bank like Hamilton intended. Read a good article regarding the other issue recently - "Are Corporations Trying to Distract Us with Social Issues While They Take Control of Our Economy?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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