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District Okays Teachers to carry guns at school

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I'll bookmark this thread and bump it when one of those kids gets shot.

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I'll bookmark this thread and bump it when one of those kids gets shot.

 

Which Ohio district has authorized this ?

Sounds good Jamie. I'll bump it if it thwarts an attempt at another disaster.

 

Numbers: Newcomerstown Ohio and apparently some if South Dakota etc.

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How soon do you think it will be before some teacher is accused of pulling a gun on a student at one of these schools? 

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Sounds good Jamie. I'll bump it if it thwarts an attempt at another disaster.

 

Numbers: Newcomerstown Ohio and apparently some if South Dakota etc.

 

Thanks for the reply.  Here is some more info and controversy.

 

http://www.newcomerstown-news.com/ap%20state/2013/05/14/state-school-board-urged-not-to-arm-ohio-teachers

 

State school board urged not to arm Ohio teachers

 

JULIE CARR SMYTH AP Statehouse Correspondent Published: May 14, 2013 5:37PM

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Top state law enforcers urged members of Ohio's state school board on Tuesday not to support arming untrained teachers with guns in response to recent school shootings, including at a northeast Ohio high school and at Connecticut's Sandy Hook Elementary.

 

"I hope you don't give guns to teachers in schools," Public Safety Director Tom Charles told the Ohio State Board of Education during a half-day school-safety briefing. "More guns aren't the answer."

 

Lawmakers especially in Republican-dominated states responded to the Sandy Hook tragedy, in which 26 children and staff were killed, with bills allowing teachers to carry hidden guns in schools to boost self-defense. The bills followed calls by the National Rifle Association for armed guards in schools.

 

In the wake of emotional public debate, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine told the board Tuesday that he tries to remind the public that schools are still among the safest places children can be -- compared statistically to, say, riding in a car.

 

He urged the school board to arm educators with information -- not firearms.

 

"This is up to the local schools, but I would never, if I was on a school board, have anybody who is untrained with a gun in that school," he said.

DeWine said training required to obtain an Ohio concealed-carry permit is not enough.

 

"That's not the kind of training I'm talking about," he said. "I would want someone who had been in the military or who has been a police officer or who has taken some extensive courses, that's beyond a 12-hour course."

 

DeWine's office has distributed a training video to school districts across the state designed to help educators identify the warning signs in a potential future shooter and advising them on the latest response techniques.

 

Kenneth Hinkle, president of the Ohio Association of Chiefs of Police, said locking schools down during attacks is no longer considered the wisest approach to keeping children safe. He pointed to 4½ minutes during the Columbine High School tragedy during which the shooter was outside the library and those inside might have escaped.

 

DeWine said his video gives teachers and administrators such information, so they can make informed decisions.

 

"If the shooter's at the other end of the building and you're on the first floor and you get a window open, you probably want to get those kids out of there," he said. "A lockdown waiting until that guy gets in your room to kill everybody is probably not what we want to be doing."

 

Board President Debe Terhar said she was relieved to hear opinions on lockdowns is shifting.

 

"It's wonderful to hear that we're moving away from the idea of shelter-in-place as the only option," Terhar said. "As a former teacher being in charge of 24 3- to 6-year-olds, I always thought that it was totally illogical to have those children as sitting ducks. That just didn't make sense."

 

State Sen. Frank LaRose, an Akron-area Republican, told the board a school-safety working group he's led is coalescing around four policy proposals: establishing an anonymous reporting system for suspicious activity; standardizing the format of school safety plans filed with the state; requiring schools to set up and regularly convene a committee on school safety; encouraging local police to make regular unannounced visits at schools.

 

He said random police visits are a way to thwart potential criminal activity at less cost than hiring full-time armed guards at every school, as the National Rifle Association has recommended.

LaRose, who spent time in the U.S. special forces, agreed with DeWine, Charles, Hinkle and other presenters that arming teachers isn't the safest way to go.

 

He said individuals without significant training can have poor aim and uneven target identification skills -- meaning they risk shooting the wrong person in a crisis.

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How soon do you think it will be before some teacher is accused of pulling a gun on a student at one of these schools? 

 

Things like this have already been happening.  Google the following, "teacher pulls gun on student."

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http://rt.com/usa/insurance-company-drops-firearms-schools-806/

 

 

 

Insurance companies to drop Kansas schools allowing firearms on campuses
Published time: July 09, 2013 01:32
 
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Students prepare to leave on a school bus in Kansas City, Missouri. (AFP Photo / G. Newman Lowrance)

An insurance company currently providing coverage for the vast majority of Kansas school districts is refusing to renew coverage for schools permitting teachers and custodians to carry concealed firearms.

The EMC Insurance Cos., which presently insures 85 to 90 per cent of Kansas school districts, along with the smaller Continental Western Group, has found that a new state law allowing holders of concealed carry permits to bring concealed weapons into public buildings, conflicts with standing policy that only qualified personnel be armed on school premises. 

“We’ve been writing school business for almost 40 years, and one of the underwriting guidelines we follow for schools is that any on-site armed security should be provided by uniformed, qualified law enforcement officers,” said Mick Lovell, EMC’s vice president for business development speaking to the Des Moines Register. 

“Our guidelines have not recently changed,” he adds. 

The state’s new gun law took effect on July 1, and is similar to another law in the state of Utah. Such regulations have been touted by firearms groups including the National Rifle Association in response to mass shooting events, such as 2012’s massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut. 

Though Connecticut’s legislature moved to enact stricter gun ownership laws in the wake of that tragedy, other states around the country have followed a different route, with at least 30 states evaluating proposed laws allowing teachers and school staff to carry firearms on the campuses of primary and secondary schools. 

Since Sandy Hook the states of South Dakota, Alabama, Arizona and Kansas have all since enacted laws allowing staff to carry guns on school premises, while Texas, which already allowed staff to carry firearms with prior school approval, passed additional laws creating a “school marshal” program. Similar bills have failed in other states. 

While some states have ratified new gun carry provisions in schools requiring only a concealed-firearm permit, others, such as South Dakota, require law enforcement-approved training. 

Still, the response by Kansas insurers to the change in the law could well be a harbinger of things to come elsewhere in the country. 

Bob Skow, chief executive officer of the Independent Insurance Agents of Iowa, tells the Des Moines Register that he’s not surprised by the insurers’ decisions. 

“It’s one thing to have a trained peace officer with a gun in school; it’s a completely different situation when you have a custodian or a teacher with a gun,” Skow said. 

“That changes the risk of insuring a school and magnifies it considerably,” he adds. 

Only days following the Sandy Hook school shooting, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre suggested that schools around the US should have armed security personnel, as well as arming school staff. 

"Will you at least admit it's possible that 26 innocent lives might have been spared?" LaPierre asked during a press appearance. 

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," he added. 

According to The New York Times, school district administrators in the state of Oregon are reeling after the state School Boards Association, which manages liability coverage for the majority of school districts, enacted an additional premium totaling $2,500 for each faculty member with a firearm on campus. 

“Pretty much every last bit of our money is budgeted,” Jackson County official Scott Whitman told the Times. “To me, that could be quite an impediment to putting this forward.” Oregon’s Jackson County currently has a committee evaluating whether to allow school staff members to carry firearms by next year. 

Kansas state senator Forrest Knox, the chief advocate of the state’s new gun law, remains convinced that having more guns in schools and public buildings can prevent injuries and deaths. 

“I’m not an insurance expert, but it’s hard for me to believe that if schools and other public buildings allow law-abiding citizens to carry that that increases risk — it’s news to me,” Knox tells the Register. 

“Law enforcement responds better (to school shootings now), but it still takes a few minutes, and a lot of damage can be done in a few minutes,” he adds. 

According to David Shriver, director of the Kansas school board association’s insurance program, as of Saturday no school district had yet opted to allow holders of concealed carry permits on school grounds with a firearm. 

 

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Things like this have already been happening.  Google the following, "teacher pulls gun on student."




Out of all the possible reasons why these guns will eventually be used, fighting off an attacker with a semiauto rifle is by far the least likely.

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Hit them in the pocketbook, I love it.

 

I doubt it.  Seems like there is always an insurance company willing to take the risk a relatively small company, such as EMC Insurance Cos, will not take and can't afford to take.

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There was an incident in my high school (Talawanda) where one of the kids thought it would be funny to grab a teacher from behind and try to put him in a head lock.. Problem was, the teacher had previously worked in an inner city school in Chicago in one of the not so nice districts.  I knew the kid, and I have no doubt that the whole thing was done in fun because he was a meat head prone to such actions but harmless overall, and the teacher was one of the cooler better liked guys who tended to relate to kids on their level and would joke around a lot.

 

Problem was the teacher didn't think it was funny and it turned into a real struggle that ended up with the student getting body slammed.  His defense was that he feared for his life. He didn't know if the kid had a weapon, or was just going to kick his ass.  He got fired, but overall everyone was fine. I have to wonder though, what might have been if Mr. Maddox had been packing?

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There was an incident in my high school (Talawanda) where one of the kids thought it would be funny to grab a teacher from behind and try to put him in a head lock.. Problem was, the teacher had previously worked in an inner city school in Chicago in one of the not so nice districts.  I knew the kid, and I have no doubt that the whole thing was done in fun because he was a meat head prone to such actions but harmless overall, and the teacher was one of the cooler better liked guys who tended to relate to kids on their level and would joke around a lot.

 

Problem was the teacher didn't think it was funny and it turned into a real struggle that ended up with the student getting body slammed.  His defense was that he feared for his life. He didn't know if the kid had a weapon, or was just going to kick his ass.  He got fired, but overall everyone was fine. I have to wonder though, what might have been if Mr. Maddox had been packing?

I think you make a valid point. I would much prefer officers inside of the school rather than teachers packing.

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I think you make a valid point. I would much prefer officers inside of the school rather than teachers packing.

 

How many do you think would be necessary? A dozen? More? And would they be armed only with pistols, or would they have heavier weapons to deal with someone in body armor armed with a rifle or possibly a group of attackers? Maybe some fencing around the perimeter to provide extra protection? Maybe some gates as well to better control access?

 

We have places like this, and they aren't called "schools".

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watch the schools will be safer when teachers are armed..you as a student will not back talk!

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I think you make a valid point. I would much prefer officers inside of the school rather than teachers packing.

 

 

I went to a school with security officers, didnt have guns though.

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I believe there were armed guards present at Colombine HS the day of the shooting..

 

How did that work out?

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I believe there were armed guards present at Colombine HS the day of the shooting..

 

How did that work out?

 

 

Yep. There have been a few cases where armed guards were at a school at a time of a shooting and it didnt help prevent it.

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Yep. There have been a few cases where armed guards were at a school at a time of a shooting and it didnt help prevent it.

yeah which is worse for our school systems? teachers being armed or ex Bengal cheerleaders sleeping with students.

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yeah which is worse for our school systems? teachers being armed or ex Bengal cheerleaders sleeping with students.

 

I will take the second option pls.. It only happened once and no one got killed (and they are engaged BTW)..

 

I wonder, according to the bible, what is the legal age of consent (to be married)?

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I will take the second option pls.. It only happened once and no one got killed (and they are engaged BTW)..

 

I wonder, according to the bible, what is the legal age of consent (to be married)?

 

 

According to the Bible I believe Mary was 14 (or around that age) when she was pregnant with Jesus

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According to the Bible I believe Mary was 14 (or around that age) when she was pregnant with Jesus

 

Don't you think Yaweh was a little old for her?? And talk about abusing a position of authority!

 

 

 

:ninja:

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