Coaching out of desperation when you are clearly the better team...

[Bengals1181]

 

 

Yes Luck had a really bad game, are you suggesting Dalton is better than Luck?

 

 

no, like the last few times you've erroneously assumed as such, he's saying that even top talent QB's struggle.

 

If you look around the league, there was some really bad QB play yesterday unless you're name was Manning or Brees.

[membengal]

Keapernick was awful. Again. As he has been much this year.

 

In fact, the obsession with ripping Dalton that so many on this board and in the Bengals fanbase engage in, keeps them from fully understanding just how much other quarterbacks also struggle from game to game. It is that lack of perspective that is so infuriating, frankly, when Dalton is discussed.

 

Flacco was fuckawful yesterday too...I wonder if the wind/defense had anything to do with that as well? 

[JC]

 

 

IMO the issue was more the lack of short passes.  It just made no sense that they kept firing it downfield into that wind.  Not to mention that quick passes would have helped cut down on the sacks.  I only recall one slant, late in the game.

 

This is game where, IMO, it made sense to put Gio and Hawkins in both slot positions, and just let them abuse linebackers all day on 5yd outs followed by 5-10yds of yac.  

 

Baltimore was sitting on EVERYTHING short.  They were pressing and very close to the LOS.  It would have probably taken a pump fake and our guys probably would have been home free because they were jumping everything short.  

They dared us to beat them deep and I think our defense did the same thing to them.  We just couldn't produce enough time to make it happen.  

[Bengals1181]

 

Baltimore was sitting on EVERYTHING short.  They were pressing and very close to the LOS.  It would have probably taken a pump fake and our guys probably would have been home free because they were jumping everything short.  

They dared us to beat them deep and I think our defense did the same thing to them.  We just couldn't produce enough time to make it happen.  

 

 

but there's ways around that.  They can sit on out's and hitches, but they can't sit on crossing routes to Gio and Hawkins, WR screens, and quick slants.  

[JC]

 

 

but there's ways around that.  They can sit on out's and hitches, but they can't sit on crossing routes to Gio and Hawkins, WR screens, and quick slants.  

 

When they are that close to the LOS, you are going to have a hard time throwing anything short.  They could have tried the crossing routes, but we had a plethora of tipped passes from trying to go over the middle.  The one screen Andy threw to the outside and Joe for that matter were either terrible or the wind destroyed them.  With their corners playing so close they probably would have blown them up anyways.  The only screens they could have run were probably to running backs, which was the only successful one they had anyways.  You can run slants but they run the risk of getting jumped, which I remember two being very close by Webb.

 

Baltimore wasn't letting anything close go in the passing game and thats why our guy had a sub 50% completion percentage.

[Phatcat]

 

When they are that close to the LOS, you are going to have a hard time throwing anything short.  They could have tried the crossing routes, but we had a plethora of tipped passes from trying to go over the middle.  The one screen Andy threw to the outside and Joe for that matter were either terrible or the wind destroyed them.  With their corners playing so close they probably would have blown them up anyways.  The only screens they could have run were probably to running backs, which was the only successful one they had anyways.  You can run slants but they run the risk of getting jumped, which I remember two being very close by Webb.

 

Baltimore wasn't letting anything close go in the passing game and thats why our guy had a sub 50% completion percentage.

 

I agree with this.  Anything short was getting tipped.  What were there?.  I'm guessing 5 tips at the line of scrimmage.  Which, I stated in another thread, why the hell didn't Gruden roll Andy out more.   

[Bengals1181]

 

I agree with this.  Anything short was getting tipped.  What were there?.  I'm guessing 5 tips at the line of scrimmage.  Which, I stated in another thread, why the hell didn't Gruden roll Andy out more.   

 

 

yea I don't remember a single rollout, and only one play action.  Flacco's only good passes on the day were on rollouts.  

 

And the oline really has to do a better job of preventing DL from getting their hands up, especially when they know its a quick pass.

[WRAPradio]

 

 

no, like the last few times you've erroneously assumed as such, he's saying that even top talent QB's struggle.

 

If you look around the league, there was some really bad QB play yesterday unless you're name was Manning or Brees.

 

 

Here was his quote:

 

"At least we aren't the colts!!! This board would have a meltdown if we lost to the rams 38-8 and our QB threw 3 INTs and sucked real bad. But he's the next coming of Jesus Christ so people won't talk about the fact that he's VERY VERY average at best."

 

To me that sounds like the poster is saying Luck is average, where most of the boards believes Dalton is average as well.  With that being said, I asked if he thought Dalton was better than Luck.  In that quote, where do you see he said Luck was a top QB?

[Bengals1181]

 

 

Here was his quote:

 

"At least we aren't the colts!!! This board would have a meltdown if we lost to the rams 38-8 and our QB threw 3 INTs and sucked real bad. But he's the next coming of Jesus Christ so people won't talk about the fact that he's VERY VERY average at best."

 

To me that sounds like the poster is saying Luck is average, where most of the boards believes Dalton is average as well.  With that being said, I asked if he thought Dalton was better than Luck.  In that quote, where do you see he said Luck was a top QB?

 

 

and where in that post does he even imply that Dalton is better than Luck?  You've made that mistake a number of times on this board.  

 

Forgive one for not being able to take anything you say seriously.  Even when the team was riding high on a 4 game win streak, you were coming around being negative, waiting for the other shoe to drop.  The overwhelming majority of your posts are negative about the team.  

[WRAPradio]

 

 

and where in that post does he even imply that Dalton is better than Luck?  You've made that mistake a number of times on this board.  

 

Forgive one for not being able to take anything you say seriously.  Even when the team was riding high on a 4 game win streak, you were coming around being negative, waiting for the other shoe to drop.  The overwhelming majority of your posts are negative about the team.  

 

 

That's why I asked a question.  If he thinks Luck is average, and most of the board thinks Dalton is average, I was asking who he thought was a better QB...simple as that.  Also if you hate my posts so much, please put me on ignore. 

[Bengals1181]

 

 

That's why I asked a question.  If he thinks Luck is average, and most of the board thinks Dalton is average, I was asking who he thought was a better QB...simple as that.  Also if you hate my posts so much, please put me on ignore. 

 

 

I don't hate your posts.  They make me laugh.  

[Arkansas Bengal]

 

 

yea I don't remember a single rollout, and only one play action.  Flacco's only good passes on the day were on rollouts.  

 

And the oline really has to do a better job of preventing DL from getting their hands up, especially when they know its a quick pass.

 

The way to do that is to punch the fucking Defensive Lineman in the ribs when he jumps up to tip the pass.  Do that a few times and they won't be so goddam eager to jump up anymore!

[|kennethmw|]

 

 

Yes Luck had a really bad game, are you suggesting Dalton is better than Luck?

 

I think it's more that good QB's have bad games.  Flacco, Eli, Kap, Luck all had bad games yesterday, and with the exception of Flacco, I don't think anyone else was playing in 35 mile an hour winds.  I too, think he played poorly yesterday, but there have really only been two bad games this year.  There have been some average games, and some fucking great games.  Those of you that have an opinion that he sucks only use the bad games to reinforce that opinion, you never use the good games to lessen that opinion.

[Big Alice]

At least we aren't the colts!!! This board would have a meltdown if we lost to the rams 38-8 and our QB threw 3 INTs and sucked real bad. But he's the next coming of Jesus Christ so people won't talk about the fact that he's VERY VERY average at best.

Or Colin Kaepernick who threw for 91 yards in a HOME loss to the Panthers...

[WRAPradio]

 

I think it's more that good QB's have bad games.  Flacco, Eli, Kap, Luck all had bad games yesterday, and with the exception of Flacco, I don't think anyone else was playing in 35 mile an hour winds.  I too, think he played poorly yesterday, but there have really only been two bad games this year.  There have been some average games, and some fucking great games.  Those of you that have an opinion that he sucks only use the bad games to reinforce that opinion, you never use the good games to lessen that opinion.

 

 

I agree, all QBs have bad games and I'm not judging him based on yesterday.  I think Dalton has had more good than bad this year, the troubling thing is it seems he's on the same roller coaster he was on last year.  He's still a young QB and that's going to happen, I'm just hoping for more consistency.  I'd be more than happy to have less of his great games for less of his terrible games.  There are many things that factor into a QBs play, but I still feel like Andy's the type of QB that's great when everything around him is great, but if everything doesn't break his way he struggles more than most.  That may not be a fair assessment b/c I watch a lot more Bengals games than other teams and I don't watch those other QBs play regularly.    

 

The other thing is, I don't compare him to guys like Henne, Gabbert, Locker, etc...he's better than those guys.  I compare him to people like Cam, Luck, Tannehill, Flacco, Alex Smith, etc.  I think all of those guys are about the same with some being better than others.  I think Luck is at the top of that group while Andy is in the middle.  

[cwing]

yea I don't remember a single rollout, and only one play action.  Flacco's only good passes on the day were on rollouts.  
 
And the oline really has to do a better job of preventing DL from getting their hands up, especially when they know its a quick pass.

From what I recall, some of the blocked passes were by guys laying off the line a yard or so. The oline can not go out and get them of it will create rushing lanes for others. This is where some pump fakes and looking off receivers more would help out. I don't have an answer but on far too many routes the defenders were getting to the spot as quick as the receiver.

[JBandJoeyV]

From what I recall, some of the blocked passes were by guys laying off the line a yard or so. The oline can not go out and get them of it will create rushing lanes for others. This is where some pump fakes and looking off receivers more would help out. I don't have an answer but on far too many routes the defenders were getting to the spot as quick as the receiver.

 

I dont think we were running the same solid routes we were in our good stretch. We werent running the crossing routes that let our guys get separation. We were running the deep outs, the hitches, those types of things that are easier to predict and time. The crossing routes usually allow you to find better passing lanes and allow guys to get separation. It seemed to me that those were lacking...

[ThurmanMunster]

 

 

Yes Luck had a really bad game, are you suggesting Dalton is better than Luck?

 

no as luck has a much higher ceiling but hasn't exactly been doing it yet both have the same TD to INT ratios too, but when luck has bad games you don't see his entire fan base turn on him. it's just sad and embarrassing the way many here turn on dalton especially when there is plenty of blame that can go on our crappy OL, weak WRs and inconsistent OC. 11-14 guys failed offensively. As great as AJ Green is he also has a lot to improve. He constantly gives up inside position on slants. AJ needs to  be much more physical and attack the ball consistently and not just on deep jump balls and endzone passes. AJ drifts away from passes hoping to catch them on the run and a defender undercuts him to break it up or even pick it off. Marvin Jones is just weak and can't be physical for his life. Sanu is physical but just isn't very good at anything else. Dalton made some bad decisions and bad passes. They all sucked, but the only person to get called out is Dalton. Then in Indy, luck makes a lot of bad decisions and bad throws and it gets deemed as he's young or he's just being aggressive or blaming it on the receiver. Luck can be a star in the NFL, but he really hasn't done it yet. Ignore the ESPN train and watch him play and look at his stats. He's been very average so far with some bright spots.

[bengals8580]

Everything falls back on Gruden and Marvin. Gruden is a complete joke. He still thinks he has Aaron Rodgers at qb. Run a damn offense around the quarterback you have. He has the dumbest and worst routes for our WRs. Wind in the face, lets chuck it to Sanu. Pure stupidity. And Marvin, same shit since 2003. Should've kicked off to start OT and definitely shouldn't punted on 4th down. Their offense was shit and the wind was tough. Pisses me off how stupid Marvin is and how he's still our head coach. We throw away multiple games a year because of his incompetence. Can't wait to see us come out flat again on Sunday!

[Jason]

How many AFC North battles had Marvin been involved in?

Field position!
Field position!
Field position!

QB sneak on 4th and more than a yard in the first quarter? I know the Ravens D is not what it use to be, but they aren't mincemeat either?


Then you don't punt in OT when the Ravens have not been able to move the ball all day? Are you fucking kidding me?!?!

Dalton didn't look good but neither did the strong armed Flacco....

Marvin handed a classic AFC North battle to an inferior team from poor game managent.

 

I kind of get the 4th down in the first quarter.  They were trying to set a tone. 

 

It was the 3rd and 4th and 2 at the end of our drive in OT I had a problem with.  I would have done 2 sneaks there.

[Bengals1181]

 

I kind of get the 4th down in the first quarter.  They were trying to set a tone. 

 

It was the 3rd and 4th and 2 at the end of our drive in OT I had a problem with.  I would have done 2 sneaks there.

 

 

my only problem with the first quarter one was the play call.  They keep saying it was an inch, which is flat out untrue.  It was almost a yard and a half.  Far too long for a QB sneak.

[Dautcom08]

 

I dont think we were running the same solid routes we were in our good stretch. We werent running the crossing routes that let our guys get separation. We were running the deep outs, the hitches, those types of things that are easier to predict and time. The crossing routes usually allow you to find better passing lanes and allow guys to get separation. It seemed to me that those were lacking...

 

And on a day where there were 35 mile an hour gusts those are the routes you probably don't want to keep dialing up.

 

Gruden had his head up his ass the entire game seemingly having no game plan whatsoever and could not find a counter for what the Ravens were throwing at them on defense.  Even coming from an unbiased coworker's perspective (albeit a Steelers fan) "I really didn't understand or like the way that Gruden called that game."

[WRAPradio]

 

no as luck has a much higher ceiling but hasn't exactly been doing it yet both have the same TD to INT ratios too, but when luck has bad games you don't see his entire fan base turn on him. it's just sad and embarrassing the way many here turn on dalton especially when there is plenty of blame that can go on our crappy OL, weak WRs and inconsistent OC. 11-14 guys failed offensively. As great as AJ Green is he also has a lot to improve. He constantly gives up inside position on slants. AJ needs to  be much more physical and attack the ball consistently and not just on deep jump balls and endzone passes. AJ drifts away from passes hoping to catch them on the run and a defender undercuts him to break it up or even pick it off. Marvin Jones is just weak and can't be physical for his life. Sanu is physical but just isn't very good at anything else. Dalton made some bad decisions and bad passes. They all sucked, but the only person to get called out is Dalton. Then in Indy, luck makes a lot of bad decisions and bad throws and it gets deemed as he's young or he's just being aggressive or blaming it on the receiver. Luck can be a star in the NFL, but he really hasn't done it yet. Ignore the ESPN train and watch him play and look at his stats. He's been very average so far with some bright spots.

 

 

All valid points.  I admit I'm harder on Andy that I probably should be, but when you have high expectations for someone and they don't meet it you're more disappointed that the person that had no expectations.  After last season I lowered my expectations, and he started reeling me back in until the Miami game.  I want nothing more than for this group of Bengals to win a Superbowl and Andy has to be the pioneer of that ship.  The bottom line is Andy can play better and so can the rest of the team.  I'd like to see Andy pick it up when the rest of the offense is struggling and maybe he can be the catalyst to turn things around.  We have a lot of talent and we've seen when Andy plays at a high level this team can compete with anyone.  

[Bengals1181]

 

 

All valid points.  I admit I'm harder on Andy that I probably should be, but when you have high expectations for someone and they don't meet it you're more disappointed that the person that had no expectations.  After last season I lowered my expectations, and he started reeling me back in until the Miami game.  I want nothing more than for this group of Bengals to win a Superbowl and Andy has to be the pioneer of that ship.  The bottom line is Andy can play better and so can the rest of the team.  I'd like to see Andy pick it up when the rest of the offense is struggling and maybe he can be the catalyst to turn things around.  We have a lot of talent and we've seen when Andy plays at a high level this team can compete with anyone.  

 

 

the rest of the offense has to start picking him up though. For as much criticism Dalton gets, much of it deserved, he's being accompanied with a 25th ranked (ypc) running game, and a WR/TE corp that I'm willing to bet is leading the league in drops.  

[gatorclaws]

 

 

the rest of the offense has to start picking him up though. For as much criticism Dalton gets, much of it deserved, he's being accompanied with a 25th ranked (ypc) running game, and a WR/TE corp that I'm willing to bet is leading the league in drops.  

 

according to this site, 10th in drops but 14th in drop percent

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-receiver-drops-percentage/2013/