"Every Man In This Village Is A Liar"

[|Bunghole|]

I want to share a couple quotes from this book I just read. The book title is the thread title. It's written by a journalist named Megan Stack and it touches upon her experiences covering a multitude of conflicts in the Middle East, from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the conflicts between Lebanon/Palestine and Israel, the situation of the status quo in places like Saudi Arabia and Jordan, etc.

 

First of all, it's a REALLY good book and having been written by an American, it really forces you to look your country's behavior squarely in the face and try to reconcile what's described with what you thought you knew and what's right and what's wrong not only with our country (assuming you're American), but the issues with the countries in the book as well.

 

Here's the first quote:

 

Here is the truth: it matters what you do at war. It matters more than you ever want to know. because countries, like people, have collective consciences and memories and souls, and the violence we deliver in the name of our nation is pooled like sickly tar at the bottom of who we are. The soldiers who don't die for us come home again. They bring with them the killers they became on our national behalf, and sit with their polluted memories and broken emotions in our homes and schools and temples. We may wish it were not so, but action amounts to identity. We become what we do. You can tell yourself all the stories you want, but you can't leave your actions over there. You can't build a wall and expect to live on the other side of memory, All that poison seeps back into our soul.

 

And it makes us lie to ourselves, precisely because we want to believe that we are good, we do not want to interrupt a noble national narrative. But there are things we try to obscure by talking about terrorism: things we do to others, and to ourselves,

 

And this gem:

 

...and now, in the depths of this war (Lebanon/Israel), I believe that nobody will ever see this, that Israel will never really look, and America will never really look, either. This is real to nobody. This would never be real to me if I were not here...make the bombs stop,,,this policy, that policy...one war and then another, all clumped together. Somewhere between Iraq and Afghanistan we lost our way. The carnage of it and the disorder, all to create a new Middle East. But naturally there would be no new Middle East because the old Middle East is still here, and where should it go? Only a country as quixotic, as history-free, as America could come up with this notion: that you can make the old one go away.

 

...up close the war on terror isn't anything but the sick and feeble cringing in an asylum, babies in shock, structures smashed, Baghdad broken, Afghanistan broken, Egypt broken. The line between heaven and earth, broken. Lebanon, broken. Broken peace and broken roads and broken bridges. the broken faith and years of broken promises. Children inheriting their parents' broken hearts, growing up with a taste for vengeance. And all along, America dreaming it's deep sweet dream, there and yet not there. America chasing phantoms, running uphill to nowhere in it's pursuit of a receding mirage of absolute safety.

 

 

I know this is heavy stuff, but for the thinkers on this board, Homer, Jamie B, Rumble (yes Rumble, he is a Palestinian and would probably find this fascinating), Black Jesus, and whomever else has a taste for a deep and philisophical, yet utterly human and painful, take on what's been going on "over there" for years ought to read this book. It's been making me question everything about who I am, what my country does in my name and with my money, to whom it affects when it does, to what end we do what we do, etc, etc.

 

Please read this book.

 

-Steve

 

[sois]

reading sucks

[|Bunghole|]

reading sucks

Fuck you

[CincyInDC]

Reminds me of a joke...

 

 

 

An Aussie is in the New Zealand countryside and he comes upon a farmer.  The Aussie looks around and then approaches the farmer.

"How is everything here on your farm? Are you treating your animals well?"

"Yes," replies the Kiwi, "very well."

"Great," says the Aussie. He looks over and sees a cow in the barn. "You mind if I ask the cow how you're treating her?"

"The cow doesn't talk," says the farmer.

Regardless, the Aussie approaches the cow and starts chatting with it, asking it how things are going. "Well, he takes good care of me. He milks me every morning and keeps us in good pastures with good grass to eat. I'm doing just fine."

The Kiwi's mouth is agape as he cannot believe what he is hearing! The Aussie returns to the Kiwi's side and asks, "How bout the horse? Can I chat with him about the farm?"

Again the farmer replies, "The horse doesn't talk." But the Aussie approaches the horse, asks him how things are, and the horse says, "Things are pretty good. The farmer brings me fresh hay every week and we go riding every Friday to check the fences. Not bad at all, very happy to be here."

The Kiwi can't believe his own eyes and ears. He is scratching his head in bewilderment as the Aussie returns.

The Aussie says, "So, how about I talk to one of your sheep..."

[spoiler]The Kiwi suddenly blurts out, "Don't listen to that sheep, that sheep's a bloody liar!"[/spoiler]

[|Numbers|]

Fuck you

 

I think SOIS was trying to emphasize that reading does indeed not suck.  He himself was putting himself into the paradox that the title of this book implies existing within the entire book...

 

In other words, reading is cool... or maybe it isn't.  That is for the reader to interpret.

 

Thank you for sharing an item of interest this morning.  I will indeed put this on my Christmas reading list.  Anything that causes my brain to think this early in the morning will be an item I will read.

 

Notes:

 

http://cff.helm.lu/downloads/CFF86-Greek-Puzzles-and-Enigmas.pdf

 

The Epimenides Liar paradox is the most famous of all paradoxes. The Cretan
philosopher Epimenides once said:

 

“All Cretans are liars!”

 

Did Epimenides speak the truth? A first glance is very deceiving, but by thinking
more carefully, one can reveal the confusing nature of those words. If Epimenides
was telling the truth, then according to his own words, how can he be a liar? And if he
was lying, then that very same statement converges to someone who is a truth teller!
A paradox of self-reference is commonly supposed to arise when one considers
whether Epimenides spoke the truth. However, if Epimenides knew of at least one
Cretan (other than himself) who was not a liar, then his statement is a non-paradoxical
lie in that it does not lead to a logical contradiction.

 

Philetas of Kos (Kos is an island beside Rhodos), a scholar and poet, died
prematurely, due to the unbearable anxiety which this paradox had caused him.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox

 

Origin of the phrase

 

Epimenides was a 6th Century BC philosopher and religious prophet who, against the general sentiment of Crete, proposed that Zeus was immortal, as in the following poem:

 

They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
 The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
 But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
 For in thee we live and move and have our being.

— Epimenides, Cretica

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Titus

 

"Epimenides, it appears, called the Cretans liars because they claimed to have the tomb of Zeus among them, whereas his devotees said he was not dead but alive and risen. ...

[Jamie_B]

Grad school is taking all of my reading time.

[T-Dub]

Bung have you read Rory Stewart's "Prince of the Marshes" or "The Places In Between"? Sounds like you'd be into 'em, particularly the latter. Both really good though.

[|Numbers|]

Grad school is taking all of my reading time.

 

[|Bunghole|]

Bung have you read Rory Stewart's "Prince of the Marshes" or "The Places In Between"? Sounds like you'd be into 'em, particularly the latter. Both really good though.

I haven't....can you tell me more about them? Yes, I know I could google, but I value opinions on here as well.

[Jamie_B]

 

:24:

[Homer_Rice]

Thanks for the recommend, Bung. I finished this the other day. I think it a well-written account of her personal experience with an occasional insight that transcends the anecdotal. She is a good writer which sometimes gets a little in the way but I enjoyed her style.

 

The content is often disheartening because every man in that village is a liar. And Numbers, while the Cretan paradox is an interesting logical conundrum, it really has no place in this account. Her usage is more akin to a metaphorical synecdoche where the small represents and mirrors the large. She introduces the quote from one of her contacts in a very specific context. Later in the book, she suggests that the "war" as it is presented to the public is not really the "war" that is taking place. Not earth-shattering news for folks who have been paying attention to modern American foreign policy, but a good turn of phrase and a nice way to leverage her thoughts on that dissonance.

 

One excellent aspect of her commentary is her focus on how all this affects women. Not only in the context of war but also in the context of the societal constraints placed on women in the countries she reported from. Not pretty and really a damn shame. I have much respect for both those women trapped in such an insular culture and even more respect for those who attempt to break out--like Atwar Bahjat.

 

I was going to make a few comments comparing her account of how American foreign policy is currently playing out to one aspect of a recent bio I have read: Unger on John Quincy Adams. But fuck it, I don't want to take the time here. Read that one, too, if you are interested. Briefly, JQA was a true nationalist in the sense that he tried to represent the nation as a whole. His disdain for partisanship, as well as his inclination towards a non-intrusive foreign policy similar to Washington's, is a counterpoint to Stack's commentary worth pondering.

[T-Dub]

I haven't....can you tell me more about them? Yes, I know I could google, but I value opinions on here as well.

 

 

Sorry, just now saw this.  "Prince" is about him working for the CPA (transitional gov't) in Iraq & trying to mesh their agenda with the local tribal powers, with varying results as the country edges towards a civil war.  "Places" is about him backpacking solo across northern Afghanistan in 2002, and his struggles to carry his enormous brass balls over such a distance.

[|Bunghole|]

I will have to check out all those books, thanks Homer and Dub. And Homer, I am glad to see your opinion on the book. Upon reflection what I took away from it most of all is a deep sense of sadness at the condition the world is in, and America's often dark part in it. I like the description of America as "quixotic and history-free" as well. It fits, in a manner of speaking.

[Homer_Rice]

I will have to check out all those books, thanks Homer and Dub. And Homer, I am glad to see your opinion on the book. Upon reflection what I took away from it most of all is a deep sense of sadness at the condition the world is in, and America's often dark part in it. I like the description of America as "quixotic and history-free" as well. It fits, in a manner of speaking.

I agree--the sadness is real, Bung. That our nation now dishes out a lot of injustice will be a blot on our history.

 

Even so, we are fortunate to have had the kind of culture which allows a person like this to become prominent. RIP Pete Seeger:

 

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EJ1kZ0yBzg[/media]

 

Yo soy un hombre sincero
De donde crecen las palmas
Yo soy un hombre sincero
De donde crecen las palmas
Y antes de morirme quiero
Echar mis versos del alma

(I am a truthful man,
From the land of the palm.
Before dying, I want to
Share these poems of my soul.)

[Chorus (after each verse):]
Guantanamera! Guajira!
Guantanamera!
Guantanamera! Guajira!
Guantanamera!

Mi verso es de un verde claro
Y de un carmin encendido
Mi verso es de un verde claro
Y de un carmin encendido
Mi verso es un ciervo herido
Que busca en el monte amparo

(My verses are light green,
But they are also flaming red.
My verses are like a wounded fawn,
Seeking refuge in the mountain.)

Cultivo la Rosa blanca
En junio como en enero
Qultivo la Rosa blanca
En junio como en enero
Para el amigo sincero
Que me da su mano franca

(I cultivate a white rose
In June and in January
For the sincere friend
Who gives me his hand.)

Y para el cruel que me arranca
El corazon con que vivo
Y para el cruel que me arranca
El corazon con que vivo
Cardo ni ortiga cultivo
Cultivo la rosa blanca

(And for the cruel one who would tear out
This heart with which I live.
I cultivate neither thistles nor nettles
I cultivate a white rose.)

Con los pobres de la tierra
Quiero yo mi suerte echar
Con los pobres de la tierra
Quiero yo mi suerte echar
El arroyo de la sierra
Me complace mas que el mar

(With the poor people of this earth,
I want to share my lot.
The little streams of the mountains
Please me more than the sea.)

[|Numbers|]

Even so, we are fortunate to have had the kind of culture which allows a person like this to become prominent. RIP Pete Seeger:

 

Seeger was a corporal in the Army Special Services for a little over 3 years.  He entertained troops in the South Pacific.  Here is picture I located;

 

 

Although he had many popular songs but my favorite was If I had a Hammer. 

[|Numbers|]

One last bit for Pete Seeger;

 

http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Music/2006/08/Pete-Seegers-Session.aspx#

 

I’ve decided that if there’s a human race here in one hundred years,

it will be because we learn how to participate with each other,

even though we may disagree about many things.

[Homer_Rice]

One of his anti-Vietnam songs which was cut from the Smothers Brothers show:

 

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3SysxG6yoE[/media]