Our roster for 2014

[MichaelWeston]

Here is who is under contract or we have the rights to or would be expected back.

QB Dalton 2014 Johnson 2014 McElroy PS Robinson 2014
RB Green-Ellis 2014 Bernard 2016 Peerman 2014 Burkhead 2016
FB Charles 2015
WR Green 2014 Sanzenbacher 2013 ® Hamilton PS
WR Sanu 2015 Whalen 2014
WR Jones 2015 Hawkins 2013 ®
TE Eifert 2017 Gresham 2014
LT Whitworth 2015
LG Boling 2014 Hawkinson 2016
C Cook 2015 Robinson 2014 Johnson PS Wedge PS
RG Zeitler 2015
RT Smith 2015

K Nugent 2014
P Huber 2017 Powell 2015
LS Harris 2017

LE Dunlap 2018 Hunt 2016 King PS
LT Peko 2014 Still 2015 Bilukidi 2015
RT Atkins 2018 Thompson 2015 Black 2014
RE Geathers 2015 Gilberry 2015
SLB Harrison 2014 Dimanche 2015 Porter 2016 Joiner 2015
MLB Maualuga 2014 Schaefer 2014 Taylor PS
WLB Burfict 2014 Rey 2013 ® Lamur 2014
S IIoka 2015 Williams 2016 Dye PS
S Nelson 2015 Mays 2014
CB Jones 2015 Kirkpatrick 2015 Lewis-Harris 2014
CB Newman 2014 Hall 2015 McCalebb PS

[MichaelWeston]

Free Agents
UFA
Tate 2013
Smith 2013
Collins 2013
Pollack 2013
Roland 2013
Johnson 2013
Boley 2013
Crocker 2013
Ghee 2013
 
Johnson and Collins will be the big decisions. I would think we would try to sign one long term and tag the other. Seems to be our MO.
 
RFA's Should all be back
Sanzenbacher 2013 ®
Hawkins 2013 ®
Rey 2013 ®

The other big decision for this offseason are the pending 2014 Free agents specifically Dalton and Green and to a lesser extent restricted Burfict.

[MichaelWeston]

Looking at the Roster and the needs while ignoring FA,

QB-Could use an upgrade at Backup
RB-Probably will stand pat although we could use a more dynamic thunder option
WR-I can't imagine many changes here.
TE-Same as WR. Maybe we add a 3rd TE to replace Gresham should he leave after next year.
OL-Need depth and someone who can eventually play LT. Should Collins not re-sign we might be ok with the starters we began the year with but it would be nice to have a backup LT ready to go should Whit prove to not be great at LT anymore
DE-Johnson would be a big loss but Hunt may help fill that role.
DT-Nice Depth here
LB-We have depth everywhere once Lamur, Mays and Porter come off the injury list.
S-2 solid starters but no real playmakers. Could use improvement here and more depth at coverage safety.
CB-Paper thin with the best players older or injured. Will need to be a focus.

If we are talking about draft picks I would expect

Rd 1-2: CB,OL,S
RD 3: The above +OL,S,CB,DE

[Jason]

I don't see us taking a safety in the first 2 or 3 rounds.

[happyrid]

Free Agents
UFA
Tate 2013
Smith 2013
Collins 2013
Pollack 2013
Roland 2013
Johnson 2013
Boley 2013
Crocker 2013
Ghee 2013
 
Johnson and Collins will be the big decisions. I would think we would try to sign one long term and tag the other. Seems to be our MO.
 
RFA's Should all be back
Sanzenbacher 2013 ®
Hawkins 2013 ®
Rey 2013 ®

The other big decision for this offseason are the pending 2014 Free agents specifically Dalton and Green and to a lesser extent restricted Burfict.

 

I would be absolutely shocked if we used the franchise tag. Both of those guys would be ridiculously expensive if tagged.

 

Unfortunately, I think MJ is gone. I suspect Collins will be much cheaper to keep than Bengals fans think. If Andre only cost $6M a year, I think Collins will be something like $4M per. I could see 3 years, $12M or something along those lines.

 

Aside from possibly retaining Collins, I think the offseason focus will be working on extensions for Burfict, Green and Dalton. 

 

Other than that, maybe a couple inexpensive veteran signings similar to last year's deals with James Harrison, Mike Pollak, Alex Smith, etc. All of those guys ended up making solid contributions this year and I think there will again be some nice veteran FA bargains available.

[happyrid]

I will also add that I think the Bengals may have some decisions to make about aging, somewhat costly veterans. 

 

Specifically, Robert Geathers, James Harrison and BJGE are all guys that arguably could be upgraded with cheaper and more talented guys in the draft. 

 

All 3 of those guys are great in the locker room and none are super expensive. So I wouldn't be surprised if all are back. However, part of running a great organization (like the Patriots and other top franchises) is making those tough decisions with your brain and not your heart and cutting some guys who are past their prime and replacing them with younger, cheaper players. 

 

Personally, I think I would keep BJGE for another year and just draft a RB in the 3rd-5th round and give that guy a year to grow into the #2 role and just let BJGE walk in 2015. Go with a 2014 group of Gio-BJGE-rookie. 

 

Harrison and Geathers are tougher calls. I don't think it makes financial sense to keep both. And we have plenty of veteran leadership on D. I think you replace at least 1 of those guys with an early round draft pick. I like the idea of a 1st or 2nd round DE to replace Geathers. Then you have a 4 man rotation at DE of Dunlap, Hunt, Gilberry and a rookie. 

[MichaelWeston]

I would be absolutely shocked if we used the franchise tag. Both of those guys would be ridiculously expensive if tagged.
 
Unfortunately, I think MJ is gone. I suspect Collins will be much cheaper to keep than Bengals fans think. If Andre only cost $6M a year, I think Collins will be something like $4M per. I could see 3 years, $12M or something along those lines.
 
Aside from possibly retaining Collins, I think the offseason focus will be working on extensions for Burfict, Green and Dalton. 
 
Other than that, maybe a couple inexpensive veteran signings similar to last year's deals with James Harrison, Mike Pollak, Alex Smith, etc. All of those guys ended up making solid contributions this year and I think there will again be some nice veteran FA bargains available.

I dont think we are allowed to extend Burfict. I could be wrong about that because Peerman signed a 3 year deal but for some reason I think you are limited in paying them until their third year is done.

As far as the Franchise tag, while I agree that the franchise tag might be too much for any of our guys we are looking at repsigning, we seem to always use it. I think it's likely that we franchise MJ again and then let him walk after next year.

[MichaelWeston]

I will also add that I think the Bengals may have some decisions to make about aging, somewhat costly veterans. 
 
Specifically, Robert Geathers, James Harrison and BJGE are all guys that arguably could be upgraded with cheaper and more talented guys in the draft. 
 
All 3 of those guys are great in the locker room and none are super expensive. So I wouldn't be surprised if all are back. However, part of running a great organization (like the Patriots and other top franchises) is making those tough decisions with your brain and not your heart and cutting some guys who are past their prime and replacing them with younger, cheaper players. 
 
Personally, I think I would keep BJGE for another year and just draft a RB in the 3rd-5th round and give that guy a year to grow into the #2 role and just let BJGE walk in 2015. Go with a 2014 group of Gio-BJGE-rookie. 
 
Harrison and Geathers are tougher calls. I don't think it makes financial sense to keep both. And we have plenty of veteran leadership on D. I think you replace at least 1 of those guys with an early round draft pick. I like the idea of a 1st or 2nd round DE to replace Geathers. Then you have a 4 man rotation at DE of Dunlap, Hunt, Gilberry and a rookie.

I think of those 3 Geathers is gone and they replace hm with no one. We were already 1 heavy at DE.

[JBandJoeyV]

I dont think we are allowed to extend Burfict. I could be wrong about that because Peerman signed a 3 year deal but for some reason I think you are limited in paying them until their third year is done.

As far as the Franchise tag, while I agree that the franchise tag might be too much for any of our guys we are looking at repsigning, we seem to always use it. I think it's likely that we franchise MJ again and then let him walk after next year.

 

Yeah I dont think you can do guys until after their third year, which would mean not this offseason but the following for Burfict.

 

Id be shocked if they used the tag on MJ again. It would be very very expensive. 

 

Wouldnt be shocked if we were able to resign him though. The DEs on the open market didnt get a ton of money last year. We might be able to get him for like 5 years 36-40 mil. Just depends if they want to do that or not.

[alleycat]

I dont think we are allowed to extend Burfict. I could be wrong about that because Peerman signed a 3 year deal but for some reason I think you are limited in paying them until their third year is done.

As far as the Franchise tag, while I agree that the franchise tag might be too much for any of our guys we are looking at repsigning, we seem to always use it. I think it's likely that we franchise MJ again and then let him walk after next year.

 

Franchising MJ will make him the highest paid DE in the league IIRC.  He's just not anywhere near worth that.   They'll have to pay him 120% of what he made last year, paying him about 2.3M MORE than he made this year and making him the 2nd or 3rd highest paid DE in the league.  They may resign him, but they won't be tagging him again. 

[MichaelWeston]

You can take the money that you used on Geathers last year, add it to the money you used on MJ this year and you have a 0 net loss.

[alleycat]

You can take the money that you used on Geathers last year, add it to the money you used on MJ this year and you have a 0 net loss.

 

Paying a guy 2x what he is worth is simply bad business and it won't happen.  You see, it's not a 0 net loss, because you are tying up dollars that you could/should be using elsewhere.

 

They gave him the Franchise tag this year because they had the luxury of some space, and because they are shrewd business people.  MJ had just had by far his best statistical year, one that, statistically speaking, might suggest a top 10 DE salary.  But it was a contract year and so the team did the wise thing and gave him a prove-it contract.  He has been a very solid player, but he has fallen far short of his pay grade.  They won't pay him even more to try the experiment one more time. 

 

You can write that down.

 

If he's lucky, they'll go back to him with the same offer they gave him last time.  If I were them, I'd tell him to go and see what the best offer he gets is and we'll match it if we can.  We know the sides want to work together, but someone may be willing to pay him far more than we will.  We hold all of the cards and I can promise you we will play them well, as we have done for years now.

[MichaelWeston]

Paying a guy 2x what he is worth is simply bad business and it won't happen.  You see, it's not a 0 net loss, because you are tying up dollars that you could/should be using elsewhere.
 
They gave him the Franchise tag this year because they had the luxury of some space, and because they are shrewd business people.  MJ had just had by far his best statistical year, one that, statistically speaking, might suggest a top 10 DE salary.  But it was a contract year and so the team did the wise thing and gave him a prove-it contract.  He has been a very solid player, but he has fallen far short of his pay grade.  They won't pay him even more to try the experiment one more time. 
 
You can write that down.


 
If he's lucky, they'll go back to him with the same offer they gave him last time.  If I were them, I'd tell him to go and see what the best offer he gets is and we'll match it if we can.  We know the sides want to work together, but someone may be willing to pay him far more than we will.  We hold all of the cards and I can promise you we will play them well, as we have done for years now.

2x what he is worth? Pro football focus ranks him the second best DE in the league and he is just 27.

[happyrid]

Yeah, we aren't going to pay MJ almost $14M next season. It just isn't going to happen with Dunlap and Geno already making big money on the D Line and guys like Gilberry and Peko also making pretty decent money.

 

I'm 90% sure that the rule you can't extend a guy until after his 3rd year only applies to draft picks. I believe there is an exception for undrafted guys who can be extended after 2 years. Burfict, Lamur and Trevor Robinson all should be eligible for extensions this offseason if that is what the Bengals want to do.

[happyrid]

I think the reason that UDFA's are different is because they automatically get 3 year rookie deals (and then are restricted FAs for year 4). 

 

All drafted rookies automatically get 4 year rookie deals. 

 

So the drafted guys can't sign an extension until they have 1 year left on their rookie deal (after year 3). The same is true for the undrafted guys, but because they only have 3 year deals, they can sign an extension after year 2.

[MichaelWeston]

I think the reason that UDFA's are different is because they automatically get 3 year rookie deals (and then are restricted FAs for year 4). 

 

All drafted rookies automatically get 4 year rookie deals. 

 

So the drafted guys can't sign an extension until they have 1 year left on their rookie deal (after year 3). The same is true for the undrafted guys, but because they only have 3 year deals, they can sign an extension after year 2.

This may be true but hte restricted nature of Burficts contract means there is no rush to sign him long term.

[alleycat]

2x what he is worth? Pro football focus ranks him the second best DE in the league and he is just 27.

LOL. You lost me at PFF.

[alleycat]

This may be true but hte restricted nature of Burficts contract means there is no rush to sign him long term.

 

Maybe, but this team typically treats its special players well, as they very much should.  Plus, the "extra year" you get by not singing him to the restricted minimum gives you some leverage to sign a guy to slightly under the premium for his position. Still, I wouldn't put it past MB and ML to sign Vontaze to a blockbuster deal soon after they are able. 

 

Why wouldn't you?  He creamed the rest of the league in tackles on the top 3 defense a year after leading his team in tackles (and he would have been higher last year had he started from day 1).

 

Vontaze is special, and the Bengals are smart enough to treat him that way.  Also, when you think about the long term future of this team, Vontaze is part of their long term trifecta: Geno Atkins (check), Carlos Dunlap (check, and then Taz.  Throw in another Leon Hall quality corner and perhaps another pass rusher or playmaking safety and we are looking at 5 years of continued dominance. 

 

Locking up Vontaze and paying him well is good business for the long term prospects of this team.

 

EDIT: and I think you may be getting a little trigger happy with the rep thing.  I'm not sure the function is meant just for negging or upping comments that you disagree/agree with. Save it for genius or stupidity (and yes, the door was wide open for me there but I passed on it, as my New Year's Resolution is to try to be less of a dick toward Michael Weston :)). 

[MichaelWeston]

 

Maybe, but this team typically treats its special players well, as they very much should.  Plus, the "extra year" you get by not singing him to the restricted minimum gives you some leverage to sign a guy to slightly under the premium for his position. Still, I wouldn't put it past MB and ML to sign Vontaze to a blockbuster deal soon after they are able. 

 

Why wouldn't you?  He creamed the rest of the league in tackles on the top 3 defense a year after leading his team in tackles (and he would have been higher last year had he started from day 1).

 

Vontaze is special, and the Bengals are smart enough to treat him that way.  Also, when you think about the long term future of this team, Vontaze is part of their long term trifecta: Geno Atkins (check), Carlos Dunlap (check, and then Taz.  Throw in another Leon Hall quality corner and perhaps another pass rusher or playmaking safety and we are looking at 5 years of continued dominance. 

 

Locking up Vontaze and paying him well is good business for the long term prospects of this team.

 

EDIT: and I think you may be getting a little trigger happy with the rep thing.  I'm not sure the function is meant just for negging or upping comments that you disagree/agree with. Save it for genius or stupidity (and yes, the door was wide open for me there but I passed on it, as my New Year's Resolution is to try to be less of a dick toward Michael Weston :)). 

 

I only rep up. 

 

And the only answers to why not (because I think all of your why answer's are true) 1. You can wait so that money allows you to pay other players while he is still at a lower amount and you still have rights of refusal against him the next year. We don't have an endless amount of money we can give players. 2. He is 2 years removed from not getting drafted due entirely to things above the shoulders. I wouldn't mind giving us more time to guarantee he would be solid. 

 

Your life resolution should be just to treat people with kindness. You will get more out of this place. As I have noted negativity almost always comes from something we feel is missing within ourselves. Work on that first. 

[MichaelWeston]

PS. Go draft in the group mock. I miss you there. 

[alleycat]

 

Your life resolution should be just to treat people with kindness. You will get more out of this place. As I have noted negativity almost always comes from something we feel is missing within ourselves. Work on that first. 

 

Thanks for the life advice.  I'll do that if you promise to get a sense of humor :D

[MichaelWeston]

Thanks for the life advice.  I'll do that if you promise to get a sense of humor :D

I have a great sense of humor....I will however try to be more thickskinned.

[Zins30]

I will also add that I think the Bengals may have some decisions to make about aging, somewhat costly veterans. 

 

Specifically, Robert Geathers, James Harrison and BJGE are all guys that arguably could be upgraded with cheaper and more talented guys in the draft. 

 

All 3 of those guys are great in the locker room and none are super expensive. So I wouldn't be surprised if all are back. However, part of running a great organization (like the Patriots and other top franchises) is making those tough decisions with your brain and not your heart and cutting some guys who are past their prime and replacing them with younger, cheaper players. 

 

Personally, I think I would keep BJGE for another year and just draft a RB in the 3rd-5th round and give that guy a year to grow into the #2 role and just let BJGE walk in 2015. Go with a 2014 group of Gio-BJGE-rookie. 

 

Harrison and Geathers are tougher calls. I don't think it makes financial sense to keep both. And we have plenty of veteran leadership on D. I think you replace at least 1 of those guys with an early round draft pick. I like the idea of a 1st or 2nd round DE to replace Geathers. Then you have a 4 man rotation at DE of Dunlap, Hunt, Gilberry and a rookie. 

 

I think the "Patriot" way isn't so much to cut people, but to let them play out their contract and not resign them if they can't get a fair deal done - and I fully anticipate that's just what the Bengals will do.  Benny only has one more year ($3M) left and management loves him (I also think he plays a vital role - even if it's to keep Gio healthy), so I don't think he's going anywhere.  Geathers has 2 more years and isn't expensive ($2.7M/yr) for what he brings to the table (especially if MJ leaves).  I guess if Hunt progresses you might see them let Geathers walk but I think he'll play out his contract and retire a Bengal.  Harrison's deal was so small ($2.0M in '14,  plus he only has 1 year left) and he brings a lot of intangibles (teaching Vontaze and co. about being a "Pro") so he's not going anywhere.

 

I don't see any of these deals as a hamper to out success, and all of these guys add a ton of leadership and stability.  I don't see any of them going anywhere while they are still under contract.  It's not like we're starved for cash - we have enough to get front-loaded AJ and Andy deals done.  Probably a smaller Collins deal done if he wants to come back here too.  I see MJ leaving though unfortunately.  even with his stats down he's made game-changing plays juts by tipping 9 passes.  He definatley influenced the GB and Balt Part 2 outcomes with tips.  I'd like to have him back but don't see if happening...

[alleycat]

 

I think the "Patriot" way isn't so much to cut people, but to let them play out their contract and not resign them if they can't get a fair deal done - and I fully anticipate that's just what the Bengals will do.  Benny only has one more year ($3M) left and management loves him (I also think he plays a vital role - even if it's to keep Gio healthy), so I don't think he's going anywhere.  Geathers has 2 more years and isn't expensive ($2.7M/yr) for what he brings to the table (especially if MJ leaves).  I guess if Hunt progresses you might see them let Geathers walk but I think he'll play out his contract and retire a Bengal.  Harrison's deal was so small ($2.0M in '14,  plus he only has 1 year left) and he brings a lot of intangibles (teaching Vontaze and co. about being a "Pro") so he's not going anywhere.

 

I don't see any of these deals as a hamper to out success, and all of these guys add a ton of leadership and stability.  I don't see any of them going anywhere while they are still under contract.  It's not like we're starved for cash - we have enough to get front-loaded AJ and Andy deals done.  Probably a smaller Collins deal done if he wants to come back here too.  I see MJ leaving though unfortunately.  even with his stats down he's made game-changing plays juts by tipping 9 passes.  He definatley influenced the GB and Balt Part 2 outcomes with tips.  I'd like to have him back but don't see if happening...

 

I'm trying to think of the last veteran who has spent some time here (i.e. not Powell) who we cut before his deal was up.  Having a hard time, frankly...

[sparky151]

 

I'm trying to think of the last veteran who has spent some time here (i.e. not Powell) who we cut before his deal was up.  Having a hard time, frankly...

 

Roland and Crocker? Of course we brought them back.