Jump to content

Michael Sam, a College Football Standout, Says He Is Gay


Harley

Recommended Posts

 

No. I tell people who have bigoted views that they are bigots.  Pretty simple. You are arguing for the continued oppression of people. I am arguing against it.

 

What's said, though far from unusual, is that you simply don't understand that your behavior is homophobic, wrapped up in some bullshit rationalization so you can call it something else.  You're the one saying Don't Ask Don't Tell was perfect. I don't suppose you ever had any gay friends (or probably even acquaintances, but the next time you come to NYC and see one on the street, stop him or her and ask if they think Don't Ask Don't Tell was homophobic, or bigoted, or a violation of their civil rights.  To a person, they will tell you it was.

 

You're the one arguing for it. Arguing that, as long as things go the way YOU WANT THEM to go, then you don't have a problem. 

 

I take heart and encouragement from your offense, though.  It shows just how far we've come, and just how powerful the tide against you is growing.

 

Fascists always defend their conservative ways in the exact same manner, and as it is tolerated they get emboldened with each little step.  When people stand up to them, they squirm and whine and cry like any bully does when you punch him in the nose.

 

And no amount of believing that, just because you live in a part of the country where everyone thinks they way you do, or because you listen to fat bloated fucks who spew their hatred on the radio with their pseudo-intellectual guise...nothing can change the fact that you have lost control, and with each day your grip gets looser and looser. 

 

History has spoken.  You are on the wrong side of it.

I probably won't go up to anyone on the street and speak to them about their sexual orientation. I'm crazy like that. I'm not obsessed with who people are attracted to. It's precisely why I don't go to the top of the empire state building and shout out that I'm straight. No one really cares. It's when you make a spectacle of yourself, that people start to get annoyed. A courageous gay person is no better than a courageous straight person. 

 

So far you have called me a bigot, a fascist, offensive and claimed I must not have any gay friends. Then, in the next paragraph, you call ME the bully. Your hypocrisy and shallow logic knows no bounds. You seem to be obsessed with one's sexual orientation, yet I am the one who is a homophobe. Pardon me If I believe a person's sexual orientation should not be used as a means to create some sort of cultural revolution, It probably should be kept to yourself until it's not. if you are comfortable with yourself, your "outing" as a gay person will happen naturally. it won't be a forced message for the world to see. I'd prefer to live in a world right now where what someone does behind closed doors doesn't matter all that much (as long as it's legal). You championing anyone who comes forward with a "different" sexual orientation as the risen Christ probably doesn't help us get to that point. Michael Sam is just a man. He's certainly not better than you or I because he's gay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

No. I tell people who have bigoted views that they are bigots.  Pretty simple. You are arguing for the continued oppression of people. I am arguing against it.

 

What's said, though far from unusual, is that you simply don't understand that your behavior is homophobic, wrapped up in some bullshit rationalization so you can call it something else.  You're the one saying Don't Ask Don't Tell was perfect. I don't suppose you ever had any gay friends (or probably even acquaintances, but the next time you come to NYC and see one on the street, stop him or her and ask if they think Don't Ask Don't Tell was homophobic, or bigoted, or a violation of their civil rights.  To a person, they will tell you it was.

 

You're the one arguing for it. Arguing that, as long as things go the way YOU WANT THEM to go, then you don't have a problem. 

 

I take heart and encouragement from your offense, though.  It shows just how far we've come, and just how powerful the tide against you is growing.

 

Fascists always defend their conservative ways in the exact same manner, and as it is tolerated they get emboldened with each little step.  When people stand up to them, they squirm and whine and cry like any bully does when you punch him in the nose.

 

And no amount of believing that, just because you live in a part of the country where everyone thinks they way you do, or because you listen to fat bloated fucks who spew their hatred on the radio with their pseudo-intellectual guise...nothing can change the fact that you have lost control, and with each day your grip gets looser and looser. 

 

History has spoken.  You are on the wrong side of it.

 

 

 

seriously, let's not fly loose with the bigot talk.

 

 

I don't necessarily agree with Madieu's stance, but his stance also doesn't make him a bigot.

 

 

Where and When Sam gets drafted will be a business decision, regardless of what the owners and GM's think of his sexuality.  It will be all about value.  Teams care about one thing:  Winning.  If bringing in Sam is more of a positive than a negative in their eyes, they'll consider him.  

 

Michael Sam, also made a business decision.  He's not doing this to be an activist.  He's not looking for attention.  He made a business decision, and has basically said so himself.  Rumors were already circulating and a number of NFL teams already knew.  So, he decided to get out in front of the story, control the narrative, and put it out there publicly so that it couldn't be used against him behind closed doors on draft day.  Now the public knows what those NFL teams know, and they'll have to answer for it if they shun him.  

 

I applaud Michael Sam for being brave enough to come out and especially WHEN he did it.  

 

It will inevitably be a distraction though.  How big and how long, who knows.  Sam, again, has already admitted this.  Missouri coach Gary Pinkel was on the radio this morning and it was Michael Sam's decision to not have this come out last fall because he didn't want to be a distraction for the MIssouri team.  

 

If a team drafts him, or doesn't draft him, it will be based on one thing:  do I have a better chance of winning WITH him or WITHOUT him?  Sadly, we live in a world where this will be a distraction for at least some period of time.  Hopefully not long, but its certainly something teams will factor in.  And that doesn't make them bigots.  It's strictly business.  

 

As I understand it, that's all Madieu is getting at, and that doesn't make him a bigot either. From what I can tell, he's merely said "I don't want him on my team if it becomes a distraction" and "whether he's gay or not is none of anyone's business."  I don't know if Madieu is anti-gay, a bigot, a homophobe, or anything.  Neither do you.  Why do I know this? Because he hasn't made any homphobic, bigoted, or anti-gay comments in this thread.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also would like to know how many people applauding Michael Sam for his courage of telling the world he's gay have ridiculed Tim Tebow in the past for speaking about his faith to whomever would listen. 

 

 

Sam said it to get out in front of it coming out in the media.. 

Do you really think after every game he will talk to the media and say " I want to thank my male partner" blah blah blah?      I don't

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Sam said it to get out in front of it coming out in the media.. 

Do you really think after every game he will talk to the media and say " I want to thank my male partner" blah blah blah?      I don't

That's ridiculous and I don't understand the narcissism of it. If the media caught wind and asked him about it, he could have flatly said "yes, I'm gay" and ended it. The public wasn't calling for Michael Sam to pronounce his sexual orientation. No one in the country even knew he was He made a conscientious decision to plan an interview with the national media and announce that he was gay. He wanted this story to be as big as it is right now. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but in my opinion, if it's asked of you and you want to say it, then do it, and I'd respect the hell out of that. This elaborate planning of a national interview reeks of Lebron "the decision" James type thinking. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

seriously, let's not fly loose with the bigot talk.

 

 

I don't necessarily agree with Madieu's stance, but his stance also doesn't make him a bigot.

 

 

Where and When Sam gets drafted will be a business decision, regardless of what the owners and GM's think of his sexuality.  It will be all about value.  Teams care about one thing:  Winning.  If bringing in Sam is more of a positive than a negative in their eyes, they'll consider him.  

 

Michael Sam, also made a business decision.  He's not doing this to be an activist.  He's not looking for attention.  He made a business decision, and has basically said so himself.  Rumors were already circulating and a number of NFL teams already knew.  So, he decided to get out in front of the story, control the narrative, and put it out there publicly so that it couldn't be used against him behind closed doors on draft day.  Now the public knows what those NFL teams know, and they'll have to answer for it if they shun him.  

 

I applaud Michael Sam for being brave enough to come out and especially WHEN he did it.  

 

It will inevitably be a distraction though.  How big and how long, who knows.  Sam, again, has already admitted this.  Missouri coach Gary Pinkel was on the radio this morning and it was Michael Sam's decision to not have this come out last fall because he didn't want to be a distraction for the MIssouri team.  

 

If a team drafts him, or doesn't draft him, it will be based on one thing:  do I have a better chance of winning WITH him or WITHOUT him?  Sadly, we live in a world where this will be a distraction for at least some period of time.  Hopefully not long, but its certainly something teams will factor in.  And that doesn't make them bigots.  It's strictly business.  

 

As I understand it, that's all Madieu is getting at, and that doesn't make him a bigot either. From what I can tell, he's merely said "I don't want him on my team if it becomes a distraction" and "whether he's gay or not is none of anyone's business."  I don't know if Madieu is anti-gay, a bigot, a homophobe, or anything.  Neither do you.  Why do I know this? Because he hasn't made any homphobic, bigoted, or anti-gay comments in this thread.  

Thank you for stating my point more clearly than I was able to make it. As I stated in my first post, this WILL be a distraction, mainly because of the media, some of it because of society, and some of it because of the manner in which he chose to announce it. My team has a chance to win the Super Bowl next season. This distraction in my opinion, COULD hinder that in some way or fashion. To me, it'ts not worth it. he's a mid-round talent who will bring plenty of unwanted attention to a team that doesn't handle attention very well. How does that make me a bigot? I like the Bengals over Michael Sam. If his quest to become his own version of Jackie Robinson gets in the way of my team winning a Super Bowl, I'm sorry, but I'm against it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's ridiculous and I don't understand the narcissism of it. If the media caught wind and asked him about it, he could have flatly said "yes, I'm gay" and ended it. The public wasn't calling for Michael Sam to pronounce his sexual orientation. No one in the country even knew he was He made a conscientious decision to plan an interview with the national media and announce that he was gay. He wanted this story to be as big as it is right now. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but in my opinion, if it's asked of you and you want to say it, then do it, and I'd respect the hell out of that. This elaborate planning of a national interview reeks of Lebron "the decision" James type thinking. 

 

 

that's not true, and you're reading way too far into this.

 

 

First, he didn't go to a national media outlet.  He was recommended to by his agent, and instead he went to a pro-gay website for the story.  He could have gone to ANY news outlet in the WORLD with a story like this.  He chose not to.  Sam has stated this is the only time he will discuss it publicly.

 

 

He did this for one reason:  teams had caught wind of the fact that he's gay (in fact it was the first question many scouts asked Missouri staff about him).  He chose to come out not because he wanted to make it a story, but because he didn't want it to hurt his draft stock.

 

 

I'm willing to bet that he wouldn't have come out publicly at all if he didn't feel like he had to.  However, it was coming out regardless.  He just chose to be the one to announce it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, how many games has he won in this league? You're making yourself out to be an ignoramus.


No, you're making yourself out to be an ignoramus, and it's pretty evident to everyone except 1181, and that's only because he tries to see the good side in everyone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, you're making yourself out to be an ignoramus, and it's pretty evident to everyone except 1181, and that's only because he tries to see the good side in everyone.

 

 

well, he's not wrong about Josh Johnson.  Or Tebow really.  

 

 

There's been some poor choice of words though, but I imagine many here think the same things he's said.  "I don't want to distract the Bengals"  and "I don't care about a guy's sexual orientation."  I imagine most would agree with those 2 statements.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has nothing to do with growing up! Perhaps AJ Green feels like Michael Sam is nothing more than a human publicity stunt. Maybe he's uncomfortable sharing a shower with Sam. Who are you to tell him to grow up? Sorry, but I really could care less about AJ Green and Michael Sam as people. They are my leisure time and if Sam's decision means AJ Green leaving, he;s ruining my leisure time and Michael Sam can take a hike. I'm straight. i also don't remember going to Subway this weekend and prefacing with that before my order. No one cares. Stop making a spectacle of yourself and move on. Don't ask, don't tell was perfect. No one needs to know the details of everyone else's private life. 

I feel like you are playing a WWE heal character or something and just taking an absurdly indefensible stance that really makes no sense. I doubt you are really that selfish to say "quit making a spectacle of yourself by living your identity outwardly, hid your identity so my football is more exciting."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The entire Mizzou team and campus knew Sam was gay. It was not private information. It wasn't a publicity move or a cry for attention, it was a public declaration so that he doesn't have to answer the same question to scouts and coaches from 32 different teams in the lead up to the draft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Tebow's not a very good QB, but there's worse QB's than him currently in the league.  

 

Tebow's not currently in the league because of the baggage that comes with him and the distraction it can bring.  He's not good enough to be a starter, and no team wants a backup QB who could be a distraction.

 

Not sure why that comes as a surprise to anyone.  It's wildly known.  

He is a horrible QB. Your backup is either a developmental guy or a veteran that can play in a pinch. He is neither, and he won't switch positions so he isn't in the league. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's ridiculous and I don't understand the narcissism of it. If the media caught wind and asked him about it, he could have flatly said "yes, I'm gay" and ended it. The public wasn't calling for Michael Sam to pronounce his sexual orientation. No one in the country even knew he was He made a conscientious decision to plan an interview with the national media and announce that he was gay. He wanted this story to be as big as it is right now. I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but in my opinion, if it's asked of you and you want to say it, then do it, and I'd respect the hell out of that. This elaborate planning of a national interview reeks of Lebron "the decision" James type thinking. 

 

 

Are you that naive to think that the Columbia, Missouri media is the same as what he will face during the combine and in the NFL???????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an opportunity to hear cases at times which deal with "discrimination" and "hate crimes". They are very interesting, in that the underlying laws deal with direct violations of established laws. That is: laws, not thoughts or even speech.
 
Judgments that are made in these areas, are made in accordance with the rule of law, and not in the Court of Public Opinion. And that is a good thing. If it were other, this society would be Oceania.     

Sadly, these laws vary by state, and as such are as much the product of public opinion as anything. Happily, that opinion is every day coming more in accord with the basic message that every spiritual leader throughout time has advocated before their words were twisted and co-opted by political powers who saw opportunity in codifying religion and advocating their own tribe while demonizing the "other."

That is, judge not, love, be present, and treat others as you would be treated. Slowly but surely, even the Ten Commandments are being replaced by better laws. It's evolution.

Now if only we can start putting them into practice, we might finally realize the heaven on earth they tried to show us was ours for the making.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

? You really can't really hide the fact that you're black. What does football have to do with being gay? When you go on a job interview, do you preface it by announcing whether you are straight or gay? This guy did. He seems to be a bit of an attention-hog. He could have gone about his life this off-season. If it came up during an interview somehow, he could have just told the truth, I'd respect that. To carefully craft the message and the timing, makes him a side-show. I don't like side-shows.

The first player in the league's history to be openly gay is a big deal. I'm sorry, no matter how much sand it rubs in your vagina, it is still a big deal. The next couple will be too, so buckle down! But contrary to your assertions, It's not about wearing your sexuality as a badge for all to see. It's about being able to answer a question or talk about a spouse from a reporter, a team member, or anyone else that asks and not having to lie. If he get's married, it's about him being able to wear his wedding ring and even be seen with his partner in public. Weirdly enough it's not about you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These attention-whores going on and on about where they sit on the bus is getting old. I sat on the back of the bus all the time, I don't know what the big deal is? Why can't they just ride the bus and not complain? I'm tired of my attention being temporarily diverted from trivialities when forced to consider the rights of others. A minority once called me a cracker and I only complain about it every time the subject comes up so I don't appreciate having to think about centuries of systemic abuse and persecution. Why can't I just enjoy my societal privilege as a straight white male without all this whining? It's like they don't care about anyone but themselves.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are only 256 draft picks, each team gets an average only 8 shots at the draft when they're on the clock and nobody else can snipe a player away from them.  It's hard enough to find quality talent coming out of college - look at the sheer # of teens playing NCAA ball who are eligible for the draft and compare that to the # actually drafted, then compare that to the # who actually make a roster, then compare THAT to the # who actually play - I can understand why a team might want to pick some other mediocre player over one who comes with his very own media circus.  Whether this kid meant to do this or not, he's just hurt his draft chances.  Only teams in big media markets have enough experience to handle the circus when it comes to town... if he's unremarkable it's unlikely someone in those other markets will roll the dice on him when he should be taken.  A 1- or 2-round drop is probably to be expected.

 

Sure,  What a guy does in private is his own business.  If it's worth yards or points, great!  Let's have more gayness in the NFL.  But if it has as much to do about football as the color of a players' eyes or whether he's a boxer or brief kinda guy, who cares?  And any press is good press.  If this guy is mediocre, then coming out / being outed might prove to be a good thing.

 

Unfortunately, though, I'm thinking that he's hurt his chances more than helped.  If only he was Really Good, but he's not.

 

PS - I didn't know Tebow was gay!  If not, why are we talking about him here?  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Yeah, really overplayed. First openly gay man in NFL history has been PLAYED TO DEATH. 

 

While you have your beliefs, it's also pretty easy to read what you've written above as just another expression of intolerance. 

 

Media whore?  I guess you could say the same about Jackie Robinson?  Martin Luther King Jr.?  Gandhi?

 

Bravo Michael Sam, BRAVO!

 

I, for one, would welcome you on this team with open arms, and support any attempts you made to continue your brave efforts to limit hate in this world.

 

And after reading this article:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/10/sports/michael-sam-college-football-star-says-he-is-gay-ahead-of-nfl-draft.html?hp

 

I'd love to have you on my team because I know you're going to be a helluva player and locker room presence.  This is different from a guy already coming out who's been closeted on your team.  A team now gets to say, "You know what?  We're going to welcome this guy into our family."  Missouri did it, and he was the best and most popular player on their team.

 

Michael Sam is going to be special. 

 

Write. It. Down

 

Well Alley I think you have misinterpreted my post.  My overplayed statement goes directly to the whole "Gay" thing that is so

dominant in media culture today.  It does not represent this man's statement.  I for one AM tired of the "Gay" story being played

to death.  If you believe that makes me a hater and intolerant of others by what I've posted then that is for you to decide.  If I didn't

know better I would have to believe that you were the intolerant one because you took offense to my statement.  Maybe next time I'll

consider standing in line and bowing to the statements made herein by the one and only Alleycat.  Cause Lord knows I couldn't have

a different thought process that is counter to popular media whore coverage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are only 256 draft picks, each team gets an average only 8 shots at the draft when they're on the clock and nobody else can snipe a player away from them.  It's hard enough to find quality talent coming out of college - look at the sheer # of teens playing NCAA ball who are eligible for the draft and compare that to the # actually drafted, then compare that to the # who actually make a roster, then compare THAT to the # who actually play - I can understand why a team might want to pick some other mediocre player over one who comes with his very own media circus.  Whether this kid meant to do this or not, he's just hurt his draft chances.  Only teams in big media markets have enough experience to handle the circus when it comes to town... if he's unremarkable it's unlikely someone in those other markets will roll the dice on him when he should be taken.  A 1- or 2-round drop is probably to be expected.

 

Sure,  What a guy does in private is his own business.  If it's worth yards or points, great!  Let's have more gayness in the NFL.  But if it has as much to do about football as the color of a players' eyes or whether he's a boxer or brief kinda guy, who cares?  And any press is good press.  If this guy is mediocre, then coming out / being outed might prove to be a good thing.

 

Unfortunately, though, I'm thinking that he's hurt his chances more than helped.  If only he was Really Good, but he's not.

 

PS - I didn't know Tebow was gay!  If not, why are we talking about him here?   :)

There were very loud and persistent rumors that he was gay, already knowing that I think officially coming out helped him, if anything. If the rumors weren't there and everyone was completely shocked by this, yes it may have hurt his draft stock, but that wasn't the case here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There were very loud and persistent rumors that he was gay, already knowing that I think officially coming out helped him, if anything. If the rumors weren't there and everyone was completely shocked by this, yes it may have hurt his draft stock, but that wasn't the case here.

 

You're just picking on him because of his blatant religiosity.

 

Oh wait, you ARE talking about Tebow there, yes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These attention-whores going on and on about where they sit on the bus is getting old. I sat on the back of the bus all the time, I don't know what the big deal is? Why can't they just ride the bus and not complain? I'm tired of my attention being temporarily diverted from trivialities when forced to consider the rights of others. A minority once called me a cracker and I only complain about it every time the subject comes up so I don't appreciate having to think about centuries of systemic abuse and persecution. Why can't I just enjoy my societal privilege as a straight white male without all this whining? It's like they don't care about anyone but themselves.

Awesome

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are only 256 draft picks, each team gets an average only 8 shots at the draft when they're on the clock and nobody else can snipe a player away from them.  It's hard enough to find quality talent coming out of college - look at the sheer # of teens playing NCAA ball who are eligible for the draft and compare that to the # actually drafted, then compare that to the # who actually make a roster, then compare THAT to the # who actually play - I can understand why a team might want to pick some other mediocre player over one who comes with his very own media circus.  Whether this kid meant to do this or not, he's just hurt his draft chances.  Only teams in big media markets have enough experience to handle the circus when it comes to town... if he's unremarkable it's unlikely someone in those other markets will roll the dice on him when he should be taken.  A 1- or 2-round drop is probably to be expected.

 

Sure,  What a guy does in private is his own business.  If it's worth yards or points, great!  Let's have more gayness in the NFL.  But if it has as much to do about football as the color of a players' eyes or whether he's a boxer or brief kinda guy, who cares?  And any press is good press.  If this guy is mediocre, then coming out / being outed might prove to be a good thing.

 

Unfortunately, though, I'm thinking that he's hurt his chances more than helped.  If only he was Really Good, but he's not.

 

PS - I didn't know Tebow was gay!  If not, why are we talking about him here?   :)

Teams in small markets won't have the circus. Cincinnati would be perfect. Cincy would be perfect for Jonathan Martin too. We seem to be a team of grown ups. Domato Peko and Andrew Whitworth are the veterans on those lines. I don't see either allowing either guy to be a distraction. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...