Michael Sam, a College Football Standout, Says He Is Gay

[Madieu Superstar]

His entire team at Mizzou already knew so yeah, might as well get it out there officially.

 

This thing is getting way over blown...err blown out of proportion....I mean....who gives a crap.   

 

It's how we do things nowadays. I personally could care less about his sexuality. I don't want him on the team because the media will make him a distraction. It's a fact. I just think that carefully choreographed messages about it don't progress us any further along. Living your life like it has no bearing does. 

[Bengals1181]

 

Your assuming that everyone in the world has the right to know that you are a confirmed homosexual? Why do they have the right?

 

Once again, i stated, if the media asks you something about your personal life/background, he has every right to flatly tell them? He's not trying to hide it after all.

 

How is it naive to think teams will look at him differently because he has waited to tell them about face to face? Once again, he's not hiding anything. Instead, it will come up under more natural circumstances, rather than his agents throwing him a big gay party, and then sitting down for 3 pre-planned interviews with a crafted message. For God's sake, it's his life story, why does he need to be trained on how to tell it? 

 

As to your last question, my story isn't important enough to tell and neither is his. 

 

 

it doesn't matter what people have a right to.  The story was coming out whether it was from him or someone else.  Rights have nothing to do with it.  When it comes to public perception, you have no rights.  You can either tell your story, or have it told for you.  

 

 

as for the bolded, the fact that you've yet again dodged the question, says all that needs to be said.

[Madieu Superstar]

 

 

it doesn't matter what people have a right to.  The story was coming out whether it was from him or someone else.  Rights have nothing to do with it.  When it comes to public perception, you have no rights.  You can either tell your story, or have it told for you.  

 

 

as for the bolded, the fact that you've yet again dodged the question, says all that needs to be said.

 

What public perception? HE IS GAY! if the public perceives him to be gay, how the heck does that differ from his life already. What rumors could be spread about him if the rumors are true? It's like when Elton John came out and said he was gay. No one cared because everyone already knew it. 

[Bengals1181]

 

What public perception? HE IS GAY! if the public perceives him to be gay, how the heck does that differ from his life already. What rumors could be spread about him if the rumors are true? It's like when Elton John came out and said he was gay. No one cared because everyone already knew it. 

 

 

so why do people care now then?  Because they're two totally different situations, but you already know that.  

 

 

[Madieu Superstar]

 

 

so why do people care now then?  Because they're two totally different situations, but you already know that.  

 

 

 

Like I stated to "Alley", the only reason this is considered important is because the media and assorted "activists" profit off of making it a big deal. Sadly, in my field, I am all too aware of that fact. Quick, name me the first NHL player of Chinese-descent. You don't know because Asians do not have these same activists marching the streets, clamoring for attention. He definitely broke a barrier, why does no one care about him?

[Bengals1181]

 

Like I stated to "Alley", the only reason this is considered important is because the media and assorted "activists" profit off of making it a big deal. Sadly, in my field, I am all too aware of that fact. Quick, name me the first NHL player of Chinese-descent. You don't know because Asians do not have these same activists marching the streets, clamoring for attention. He definitely broke a barrier, why does no one care about him?

 

 

don't try and equate breaking a stereotype with breaking a barrier.  

 

Did that player ever have to worry about being judged in the NFL for his ancestry? Did he ever have to consider lying about his descent?

[Orange 'n Black]

CAN A MODERATOR PLEASE KILL THIS HORRIBLE HORRIBLE THREAD

[alleycat]

 

But God does call homosexuality a sin.

 

He does?  When the fuck did God say that?! 

 

Because unless you have regular conversations, I'm pretty sure when you mean "God" what you really mean is "the bible." And I'm sorry to break the news to you, but those to have relatively little to do with each other.  Say what you want about God, but what we know about the bible is that it is two books, both of which were written by people WELL AFTER the events in either took place (there's a great story in the NYTimes today about the prevalent mention of camels in the Old Testament, an animal that wasn't domesticated for human use until long, long after the events describing Jews and their camels.

 

The "bible" is the result of a 5000 year game of Telephone, with each relayer adding his own little twist and losing his only little bits in the process.

 

But to tell me what god says because of what is in the bible is as much a failure of rationality as telling me that Adam and Eve existed, or the earth was flat, or that we didn't descend from monkies, and on and on. 

 

And guess what?  Even the Pope agrees with this. 

 

The priest who taught our freshman religion class in high school said it first day:  The bible is true.  It is not factual.  That is, there is truth in some of its teachings.  But it is not a record of fact, nor should anything be taken literally in it.

 

And this is not an attack on religion.  Though I personally think that most religion is nothing more than the bastardization of the teachings of great men (and I'll add Islam and Buddhism to Christianity), I do think those great men had incredible messages for all of us, and the message was essentially same. 

 

Be Mindful. Love everyone. Don't judge or hate.

 

Those are pretty good messages.  And what I have such a hard time understanding is how people who claim to be the most ardent adherents to these religions seem to be the least capable of practicing their central messages, or, even worse, use some bastardized interpretations of it to extoll ideology that directly conflicts that message --

 

-- like homosexuality is a sin.

[alleycat]

CAN A MODERATOR PLEASE KILL THIS HORRIBLE HORRIBLE THREAD

 

It's a thread about Michael Sam announcing he's gay.  It's necessarily a place where football and sexuality and religion are going to intersect.  Let the discourse continue.  You don't need to click on it any longer if you don't like it.

[Madieu Superstar]

 

 

don't try and equate breaking a stereotype with breaking a barrier.  

 

Did that player ever have to worry about being judged in the NFL for his ancestry? Did he ever have to consider lying about his descent?

 

Actually, as the story has it, when he debuted with the Rangers, the people in the crowd all used their hands to slant their eyes. I'm sure he wasn't offended. After all, there were no Asian activists demanding an apology. I'll have to try and find that story when I get home from work.

 

Who is judging Sam about his sexual orientation? You don't think there are openly gay players in locker rooms right now? Most players have no problem with the player being gay, its the circus that he will undoubtedly bring along with him when the media finds out, that gets in the way.

[alleycat]

He chose to tell the world something that most never cared to know.

Most according to who? You?

 

I care.  So do lots of others by the looks of the airtime it's getting.

 

Who the fuck are you tell other people what to care about?  Are you advocating limited speech or even thoughts now because it doesn't agree with your beliefs? 

 

Child please.

[Bengals1181]

 

Actually, as the story has it, when he debuted with the Rangers, the people in the crowd all used their hands to slant their eyes. I'm sure he wasn't offended. After all, there were no Asian activists demanding an apology. I'll have to try and find that story when I get home from work.

 

Who is judging Sam about his sexual orientation? You don't think there are openly gay players in locker rooms right now? Most players have no problem with the player being gay, its the circus that he will undoubtedly bring along with him when the media finds out, that gets in the way.

 

 

does this really need to be answered?

[alleycat]

This thing is getting way over blown...err blown out of proportion....I mean....who gives a crap.   

 

The guy who's taking the salami, of course.

[Madieu Superstar]

Most according to who? You?

 

I care.  So do lots of others by the looks of the airtime it's getting.

 

Who the fuck are you tell other people what to care about?  Are you advocating limited speech or even thoughts now because it doesn't agree with your beliefs? 

 

Child please.

 

Explain why you care. What rational human being who works full-time, has a house, wife, kids, actually sat around clamoring for the first gay football player? How about the first bisexual football player? How about the first football player who wears fishnet stockings underneath his football pants? If your answer is that other gays care, explain to me how this helps their personal lives. Will their parents now gladly accept their lifestyle because a nondescript jock said he does the same thing? Will they now be happier in their own skin? I think therapy is needed for that.

 

Why does Michael Sam's (previous) personal life matter to you? Shall we give him an award for being a gay football player? Is Michael Sam better than a straight football player, and if so, why?

 

I'm not telling anyone what they should care about. I'm saying its my belief that the vast majority of people who really care about this crap are perpetual victims and advocates seeking to profit off of it. The same goes with race. The only people who seem to mention race constantly are the victims seeking a scapegoat for their problems and the race-baiters, looking to fill their pockets in the grief industry.

 

For most people in America, we all know gay people, all have gay people in our family, and are extremely bored with the topic. 

 

Sidebar: I'll have to look at this again tonight, I haven't gotten any work done today. For everyone who disagrees with me, can you at least make my job easier and pack all of your comments into one post? This takes forever to cipher through.

[Madieu Superstar]

 

 

does this really need to be answered?

 

You don't have to respond to my comment. I really don't care. Your argument is flimsy. 

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[Bengals1181]

 

Explain why you care. What rational human being who works full-time, has a house, wife, kids, actually sat around clamoring for the first gay football player? How about the first bisexual football player? How about the first football player who wears fishnet stockings underneath his football pants? If your answer is that other gays care, explain to me how this helps their personal lives. Will their parents now gladly accept their lifestyle because a nondescript jock said he does the same thing? Will they now be happier in their own skin? I think therapy is needed for that.

 

Why does Michael Sam's (previous) personal life matter to you? Shall we give him an award for being a gay football player? Is Michael Sam better than a straight football player, and if so, why?

 

I'm not telling anyone what they should care about. I'm saying its my belief that the vast majority of people who really care about this crap are perpetual victims and advocates seeking to profit off of it. The same goes with race. The only people who seem to mention race constantly are the victims seeking a scapegoat for their problems and the race-baiters, looking to fill their pockets in the grief industry.

 

For most people in America, we all know gay people, all have gay people in our family, and are extremely bored with the topic. 

 

 

gee, I imagine it might give one or two people the courage to tell their loved ones, or the courage to not live in fear of how they will be perceived and looked at.  

 

People fear what they don't understand, and people live in fear because they feel they won't be understood.  

 

 

I really have no idea how you feel about gay people, and I really don't care.  However, if Michael Sam has helped even one person no longer live in fear, it's made a difference, whether you agree with how it was handled or not.

[|High School Harry|]

Why the Cincinnati Bengals Won't Draft Missouri Defensive End Michael Sam Tweener Status May Prove Harder to Overcome Than Gay Declaration

 

By Robb Hoff3 hours a

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COMMENTARY | The Cincinnati Bengals were founded by an owner who understood the value of having the best players available for a team to succeed. Before Paul Brown founded the Bengals, he founded the Cleveland Browns and reintroduced professional football to the inclusion of African-American players the year before major league baseball broke the color barrier.

 

But Brown wasn't a crusader: he was a football coach and franchise co-owner. Now that his son Mike Brown has ran the Bengals for nearly a quarter century, don't expect the Bengals to look to draft openly gay former Missouri defensive end Michael Sam just because the rest of the teams in the NFL may immediately pull Sam from their war room draft boards.

Why Not Sam at Defensive End?

In football terms, Sam faces one of the worse stereotypes a collegiate defensive end in a 4-3 base defense can face -- he is a "tweener". For the NFL teams that run a 4-3 base that means Sam lacks the ideal size to play the defensive end position in the NFL that he played in college. 

The Bengals face losing franchise-tagged DE Michael Johnson to free agency this year. Johnson is 6-7, 270 pounds. Sam is 6-1-1/2, 260. Johnson's spot in the DE rotation will be filled by Margus Hunt, who is 6-8, 280. The likely return of veteran DE Robert Geathers (6-3, 280) to the mix with starter Carlos Dunlap (6-6, 280) and versatile backup Wallace Gilberry (6-2, 275) would round out the DE position for the Bengals and make drafting another one a low priority unless an exceptional value were available later in the draft.

Sam lacks the size to fit into the Bengals DE plans, regardless of his sexual orientation. He is most comparable to Gilberry in terms of size but still lacks the overall physical attributes the Bengals generally covet at the end position. Despite a strong senior season at Missouri, Sam won't be coveted by the Bengals or any other team that runs a 4-3 base defense.

Why Not Sam at Strong Side Linebacker?

The slide of a tweener and college sack specialist like Sam out of draft consideration for 4-3 teams is long standing and not always fair. Players often lost in the shuffle -- like Bengals current starting strong side linebacker James Harrison -- aren't drafted at all and still wind up having stellar NFL careers.

In Harrison's case, he made his career as an outside linebacker in the 3-4 base defense of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Harrison's transition to 4-3 LB for the Bengals was a successful one but will not reach the same level of success that the younger Harrison had in a 3-4 base.

Like most tweeners, Sam will have to prove he can stand up as a 4-3 or 3-4 LB. He did not convince the NFL community that he can do that at the Senior Bowl and may not have that chance at the upcoming NFL Scouting Combine. If Sam does not get that opportunity to show he can play the linebacker position, no team with a 4-3 base will consider drafting him to play strong side LB.

Better Suited as a 3-4 Outside Linebacker?

The inability to sway NFL personnel at the Senior Bowl that he can play outside linebacker did not help Sam's draft cause. Size-wise and in terms of quickness, Sam would have been better served to change position from down-in-the-dirt end. Sam's physique and skill set may closely mirror another former collegiate DE -- LaMarr Woodley of the Pittsburgh Steelers -- more than most other NFL tweener converts.

Woodley is 6-2, 265, which is much closer to Sam's size. The Steelers or another team with a 3-4 base defense would be a much better fit for Sam than the Bengals or any other 4-3 team. 

Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau once worked for Paul Brown as the Bengals coordinator and became a football innovator throughout his coaching career, much like Brown did over the course of his career. Whether or not the Steelers allow LeBeau and head coach Mike Tomlin to become pioneers with an openly gay player remains to be seen, but if Sam is going to have a shot to be drafted, it will take a team with much more conviction he can overcome his tweener limbo than reservations about his sexual orientation.

[Bengals1181]

 

You don't have to respond to my comment. I really don't care. Your argument is flimsy. 

 

 

I'll respond to your question, It's just an incredibly stupid question.

 

 

We're sitting here discussing someone who will be the first openly gay player in the NFL.  So to answer your stupid question of "do you think there are any openly gay players in NFL locker rooms?"

 

The answer would be "ummmm, no sherlock."  If they were openly gay, it's be out in the open.

[Madieu Superstar]

 

 

I'll respond to your question, It's just an incredibly stupid question.

 

 

We're sitting here discussing someone who will be the first openly gay player in the NFL.  So to answer your stupid question of "do you think there are any openly gay players in NFL locker rooms?"

 

The answer would be "ummmm, no sherlock."  If they were openly gay, it's be out in the open.

 

He was openly gay at Mizzou genius. The public just didn't know about it. I'm talking about open in the locker room, as in, his teammates know about it, but have kept it from the public. That very much is going on in the NFL. If you don't know that, you're lost on all of this. 

[Bengals1181]

 

He was openly gay at Mizzou genius. The public just didn't know about it. I'm talking about open in the locker room, as in, his teammates know about it, but have kept it from the public. That very much is going on in the NFL. If you don't know that, you're lost on all of this. 

 

 

telling your teammates and asking them not to tell anyone, is not "openly gay".

 

 

Being openly gay is being open about it, and not worrying who knows and not being fearful of how you're treated.

 

 

There's absolutely no doubt there are gay players in the NFL.  There's no openly gay players who have felt they could be openly accepted by everyone.  No player that's said "I'm gay, I'm comfortable in saying it, and its ok to be gay and an NFL player."  There's surely gay players who have told a few of their teammates.  There's nothing like what happened at Missouri going on in the NFL.

[|SF2|]

 

 

telling your teammates and asking them not to tell anyone, is not "openly gay".

 

 

Being openly gay is being open about it, and not worrying who knows and not being fearful of how you're treated.

 

 

There's absotutely no doubt there are gay players in the NFL.  There's no openly gay players who have felt they could be openly accepted by everyone.  No player that's said "I'm gay, I'm comfortable in saying it, and its ok to be gay and an NFL player."  There's surely gay players who have told a few of their teammates.  There's nothing like what happened at Missouri going on in the NFL.

I would think telling your FOOTBALL teammates you are gay is taking a pretty big step.  

 

Furthermore, the only way to keep something secret is to only tell two people then shoot one of them.

[Bengals1181]

Madieu, do you have any gay friends?

[Bengals1181]

I would think telling your FOOTBALL teammates you are gay is taking a pretty big step.  

 

Furthermore, the only way to keep something secret is to only tell two people then shoot one of them.

 

 

oh its absolutely a big step, and one that should be applauded.  The fact that it was kept quiet for so long is because it was asked to kept quiet, and is a great testament to what his teammates think of him that they cared enough about him to keep it.

[Jason]

 

He does?  When the fuck did God say that?! 

 

Because unless you have regular conversations, I'm pretty sure when you mean "God" what you really mean is "the bible." And I'm sorry to break the news to you, but those to have relatively little to do with each other.  Say what you want about God, but what we know about the bible is that it is two books, both of which were written by people WELL AFTER the events in either took place (there's a great story in the NYTimes today about the prevalent mention of camels in the Old Testament, an animal that wasn't domesticated for human use until long, long after the events describing Jews and their camels.

 

The "bible" is the result of a 5000 year game of Telephone, with each relayer adding his own little twist and losing his only little bits in the process.

 

But to tell me what god says because of what is in the bible is as much a failure of rationality as telling me that Adam and Eve existed, or the earth was flat, or that we didn't descend from monkies, and on and on. 

 

And guess what?  Even the Pope agrees with this. 

 

The priest who taught our freshman religion class in high school said it first day:  The bible is true.  It is not factual.  That is, there is truth in some of its teachings.  But it is not a record of fact, nor should anything be taken literally in it.

 

And this is not an attack on religion.  Though I personally think that most religion is nothing more than the bastardization of the teachings of great men (and I'll add Islam and Buddhism to Christianity), I do think those great men had incredible messages for all of us, and the message was essentially same. 

 

Be Mindful. Love everyone. Don't judge or hate.

 

Those are pretty good messages.  And what I have such a hard time understanding is how people who claim to be the most ardent adherents to these religions seem to be the least capable of practicing their central messages, or, even worse, use some bastardized interpretations of it to extoll ideology that directly conflicts that message --

 

-- like homosexuality is a sin.

 

In the bible.  Which has several fulfilled prophecies authenticating it as divinely inspired.

 

Multiple times a day. 

 

And the bible does not say not to judge at all, it says not to judge hypocritically.