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FUCK ISRAEL!!!!


Rumble In the Jungle

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It's typical.....an Israeli perspective to what's happening.....so you get sound bites like..."this is war etc.."  This isn't war.....it's genocide.  One side has advanced military backed by the US while the other side has homemade rockets that don't do any damage and rocks.  It isn't a war. 

 

 

Eh, you should really watch it, it's not like that at all.  A couple of the guys are very hawkish but overall it's about how ineffective their escalations of the conflict have been & so on.  Gets into the policy change they operated under after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin (shot by a far-right Israeli hardliner, for those unaware) & just in general how they've failed to improve much of anything.  Basically paints the picture of them making things worse, in fact.

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Eh, you should really watch it, it's not like that at all.  A couple of the guys are very hawkish but overall it's about how ineffective their escalations of the conflict have been & so on.  Gets into the policy change they operated under after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin (shot by a far-right Israeli hardliner, for those unaware) & just in general how they've failed to improve much of anything.  Basically paints the picture of them making things worse, in fact.

 

No, I get that....but my point stands....you don't ever get the Palestinian perspective, understanding their plight.....it's always an Israeli point of view that's speaking.  Even if it is highlighting the erroneous tactics deployed by the Israelis.  Presenting Palestinians as humans and showing what they go through on a daily basis would have been a better film......but we all know it wouldn't have garnered much attention and definitely wouldn't have made the "Indi films" nominations. 

 

I actually think the Israeli tactics are by design.  They know they will not receive any pressure from the only country they care about receiving pressure from.....America.  The whole rest of the world denounces their actions but as long as US gives billions in $ and military aid, they will continue to do what they want.  The goal is to essentially exterminate the Palestinians, to wipe away future generations through death, handicaps and after effects of chemical weapons that are used on the Palestinians (sterilization).  Gaza specifically has become a laboratory experiment for the Israelis to deploy munitions developed jointly with the US that are for the most part against the rules of war. 

 

Most of the dead civilians are all children, very young children (a 4 DAY old girl was killed in the past few days).  Israel is bombing hospitals and rehab centers for the elderly.  Where is the justice in that?  Where is the outcry from the one country that can actually impact Israeli action?  Obama and the rest of the American politicians don't want to commit career suicide so they continually say: Israel has the right to defend itself.  Defend itself?  From what?  How many casualties as the result of Hamas rockets?  ZERO, that's how many.   HOmemade fireworks vs high tech military dropping missiles on a densely populated city of over 1 million. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdQ6QP6jja8

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It's typical.....an Israeli perspective to what's happening.....so you get sound bites like..."this is war etc.."  This isn't war.....it's genocide.  One side has advanced military backed by the US while the other side has homemade rockets that don't do any damage and rocks.  It isn't a war.  

 

Call it whatever you want but it doesn't change the fact that Hamas is waging war against Israel in the only way it can, and Israel does have the right to defend itself. Only a fool would expect Israel to fight in a manner that would make the death toll more equal, and only a greater fool would think that they can continue provoking and attacking Israel without scores of their own children suffering innocent deaths. That's what war does best and it even happens to people on the winning side. Your dead baby does not trump their dead baby.

 

Sow the seed, reap the whirlwind.  

 

World opinion about Palestinians didn't change until they stopped drawing attention to their plight by blowing up airliners and killing Olympic athletes. Small suprise then if Israel's opinions about Palestinians doesn't change until scores of rockets are no longer being fired across their border. 

 

Further, an ineffective unguided weapon whose sole purpose is to kill without discretion isn't more moral or pure than a round fired by a heavy tank or a precision guided weapon dropped on a house. In fact, it seems obvious that a weapon designed to kill without any discretion whatsoever is morally inferior to expensive laser-guided weaponry specifically designed to increase accuracy and reduce collateral damage. And the very fact that collateral damage is entirely unavoidable is what makes me point my finger at the leaders of Hamas and the people who elected them whenever someone posts a picture of a dead baby with the back of it's head blown away.  

 

The very fact that Palestinians will die at a much greater rate than Israelis only serves as a reminder that Palestinians elected members of Hamas to rule knowing full well of their intentions. And whenever those leaders of Hamas aren't firing rockets into Israel those same leaders quickly climb upon the corpses of Palestinians to make their speeches demanding Israel stop fighting first. Or maybe they make speeches like the Hamas leader on last nights newcast who stopped bragging about the hundred of rockets still being launched against Israel just long enough to offer fresh bragging about the new drones Hamas has developed. Better range, more targets. Better accuracy, more potentialy dead Jews tomorrow. Thus, more dead Palestinians today.

 

It's not like I'm not sympathetic or lack empathy for Palestinians. It's just that I've watched an entire generation of Palestinians leaders waste every opportunity for peace by negotiating in bad faith, as they seem determined to do yet again for another generation. I've also watched as other Arab countries greedily exploit the Palestinian issue as a political football. And while I wish Israel would be a more far benevolent conqueror than they've been I understand why they aren't willing to do so yet.

 

Signed,

 

Another ignorant American blinded by propoganda

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I've been to Israel. I've talked with people on both sides of the discussion. Not easy to find a Palestinian willing to talk. I don't blame them in the way they feel. I of all people would be willing to take up arms against the tyrannical regime of Israel. I don't approve of the indiscriminate bombing of what I call the innocents. FROM BOTH SIDES. I also remember when Israel shut the water off. I also remember when the PLO Pushed Leon Overboard which I think was the Achille Lauro. Someone has to stop fighting and start meaningful communication. Wake me up when the pigs start flying...

A question for those that have roots over there... Do your relations consider you an American or do they consider you a native son ?
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Also note that Homer can probably discuss the USS Liberty incident a little better than myself.

Also note that the Israelis were at one point considered terrorists also. Read Montgomerys memoirs and those guys were pretty vicious. You reap what you sow in other words.
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Call it whatever you want but it doesn't change the fact that Hamas is waging war against Israel in the only way it can, and Israel does have the right to defend itself. Only a fool would expect Israel to fight in a manner that would make the death toll more equal, and only a greater fool would think that they can continue provoking and attacking Israel without scores of their own children suffering innocent deaths. That's what war does best and it even happens to people on the winning side. Your dead baby does not trump their dead baby.

 

Sow the seed, reap the whirlwind.  

 

World opinion about Palestinians didn't change until they stopped drawing attention to their plight by blowing up airliners and killing Olympic athletes. Small suprise then if Israel's opinions about Palestinians doesn't change until scores of rockets are no longer being fired accross their border. 

 

Further, an ineffective unguided weapon whose sole purpose is to kill without discretion isn't more moral or pure than a round fired by a heavy tank or a precision guided weapon dropped on a house. In fact, it seems obvious that a weapon designed to kill without any discretion whatsoever is morally inferior to expensive laser-guided weaponry specifically designed to increase accuracy and reduce collateral damage. And the very fact that collateral damage is entirely unavoidable is what makes me point my finger at the leaders of Hamas and the people who elected them whenever someone posts a picture of a dead baby with the back of it's head blown away.  

 

The very fact that Palestinians will die at a much greater rate than Israelis only serves as a reminder that Palestinians elected members of Hamas to rule knowing full well of their intentions. And whenever those leaders of Hamas aren't firing rockets into Israel those same leaders quickly climb upon the corpses of Palestinians to make their speeches demanding Israel stop fighting first. Or maybe they make speeches like the Hamas leader on last nights newcast who stopped bragging about the hundred of rockets still being launched against Israel just long enough to offer fresh bragging about the new drones Hamas has developed. Better range, more targets. Better accuracy, more potentialy dead Jews tomorrow. Thus, more dead Palestinians today.

 

It's not like I'm not sympathetic or lack empathy for Palestinians. It's just that I've watched an entire generation of Palestinians leaders waste every opportunity for peace by negotiating in bad faith, as they seem determined to do yet again for another generation. I've also watched as other Arab countries greedily exploit the Palestinian issue as a political football. And while I wish Israel would be a more far benevolent conqueror than they've been I understand why they aren't willing to do so yet.

 

Signed,

 

Another ignorant American blinded by propoganda

 

Whatever helps you sleep.  At least you signed it appropriately. 

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They must have deserved it, right? 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/world/middleeast/gaza-strip-beach-explosion-kills-children.html?_r=0

 

Four Young Boys Killed Playing on Gaza Beach

By ANNE BARNARD and TYLER HICKS

JULY 16, 2014
 
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Civilians rushed to help after explosions hit a beach where children were playing in Gaza City. Four Palestinian boys died. Credit Tyler Hicks/The New York Times
 

GAZA CITY — Four young Palestinian boys were killed Wednesday when two explosions hit a jetty and beach where they were playing at the fishing port of Gaza City, an area that had been considered relatively safe from the intense Israeli bombing campaign of the past nine days.

The Israel Defense Forces acknowledged that it had struck the area. “Based on preliminary results, the target of this strike was Hamas terrorist operatives,” the I.D.F. said in a statement. “The reported civilian casualties from this strike are a tragic outcome.”

The four boys were cousins in an extended family of fishermen who kept their boats at the port.

The Israeli military has been hitting Gaza with bombs and missiles for more than a week, aiming to stop Hamas, the group that controls the territory, and other militants from firing rockets and other munitions into Israel.

The first explosion left a small shack burning on the jetty. Several boys could be seen fleeing along the beach. About 30 seconds later came the second blast, and when the dust cleared, three figures lay motionless on the sand. One had most of a leg blown off, his body charred; a few yards away lay a smaller one with curly hair.

Men came running and scooped up three bodies. A fourth was found in the charred ruins of the shack on the jetty. A grown man, wounded, called for help from inside an outdoor beach cafe, and he too was carried away.

Israel’s military says it has taken extensive precautions to avoid killing civilians. But it has acknowledged, according to Israel Radio, that about half the people in Gaza killed so far were “not involved in terrorism.” Human Rights Watch issued a statement on Wednesday decrying the civilian casualties and demanding that Israel “end unlawful attacks that do not target military objectives.”

Continue reading the main story Related Coverage

A running count kept by United Nations officials shows that of the more than 200 Palestinians who have been killed so far, about 75 percent have been civilians, including more than three dozen children. One Israeli has been killed.

Continue reading the main story Bomb Strikes Beach in Gaza
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First boy

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here.

Three boys were killed

here 30 seconds later

as they ran north.

Mediterranean

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Gaza

Sderot

Gaza

GAZA

STRIP

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5 Miles

500 feet

 

Hamas and other militant groups have fired more than 1,000 rockets into Israel since simmering hostilities erupted into military confrontation on July 8. Most of the Gaza rockets have fallen in open ground in Israel or were destroyed by Israel’s Iron Dome interception system. For its part, Israel has struck houses, offices and farmland in the Gaza Strip with airstrikes, missiles fired from Apache helicopters and shelling from naval gunboats.

An Israeli military spokesman, Motti Almoz, told Israel’s Channel 10 that Israeli forces had fired at “a target near the sea” on Wednesday and that the details were still under review.

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The two explosions were about 30 seconds apart. Credit Tyler Hicks/The New York Times

Alon Ben-David, a senior military affairs journalist with extensive Israeli military sources, said information he had seen indicated that the military had identified the beach shack as belonging to Hamas and fired at it.

Mr. Ben-David speculated that the second blast had been aimed at the children running away, who might have been mistaken for militants. But he added that given the military’s technologically advanced surveillance equipment, “it is a little hard for me to understand this, because the images show that the figures are children.”

Continue reading the main story The Toll in Gaza and Israel, Day by Day

The daily tally of rocket attacks, airstrikes and deaths in the conflict between Israel and Hamas.

In Gaza Through July 16
1,653 targets struck by Israel
214 deaths
In Israel Through July 16
1,241 rockets launched from Gaza
1 death

The boys were part of the Bakr family, according to relatives who gathered outside the family’s apartment building, wailing and crying. One woman cursed both Israel and Hamas, and another quietly noted that Hamas had killed 10 members of the family in factional infighting.

Relatives who witnessed what happened identified the boys as Mohammad, 11 or 12, Ismail, 9, Zakariya, 10, and Ahed, 7 or 9. In the chaos of an extended family milling about in mourning, there was some confusion about the ages.

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Family members broke down after identifying the dead. Credit Tyler Hicks/The New York Times

Like many Gaza children from large families, the cousins were inseparable and traveled in a pack, playing nearly every day on the beach in normal times, relatives said.

But they had been cooped up during nine days of bombardment, said Nasreen al-Bakr, an aunt of Ahed, whose father had beaten him the day before for defying parents’ orders to stay off the beach.

Israeli gunboats patrol just offshore and have periodically fired shells landward. Still, the area near the port has generally been safe, with a row of hotels that are packed with foreign journalists. Some of the journalists gave first aid to another wounded child on the terrace of the Deira Hotel, where the bodies were initially brought.

“What was the fault of these children?” a woman wailed at the family home. “Are they terrorists?”

Ramzi, 8, Mohammad’s brother, said he had tried to tag along when the boys went to catch crabs and check on the family’s boats. But Mohammad apparently considered that the risk of going to the beach, while acceptable for himself, was too much for his little brother.

“He made me go back to the house,” Ramzi said softly. “He was always worried for me.”

Jodi Rudoren contributed reporting from Jerusalem.

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Further, an ineffective unguided weapon whose sole purpose is to kill without discretion isn't more moral or pure than a round fired by a heavy tank or a precision guided weapon dropped on a house. In fact, it seems obvious that a weapon designed to kill without any discretion whatsoever is morally inferior to expensive laser-guided weaponry specifically designed to increase accuracy and reduce collateral damage.

 

 

 

When one side has carte blanche support from the most technologically advanced military in history, if there is any moral high ground I would have to give that benefit to the side fighting with whatever surplus and homemade crap they can get their hands on. I am sure Hamas would love to have precision-guided weapons, heavy tanks, and most importantly the political capital on the international stage to use them at will. The recent rocket attacks on Israel have killed ONE person. I don't think there's any moral high ground at all, myself, but there's certainly not one to be found in killing hundreds of civilians with nicer equipment.

 

I would also suggest that it's a bit much to blame Palestine for not bending over & grabbing their ankles whenever Israel decides they need more territory.  Hamas did not rise to power in a vacuum & they don't stay in power because Muslims simply hate Jews.  The state of Israel itself was born out of terrorist tactics by the Irgun & Lehi & largely maintains control through a systematic program of genocide.  The form the Palestinian resistance has taken was inevitable.

 

All that being said, I am not convinced either side truly wants peace, at least not under the current leadership. I would suggest, though, that the way forward is going to involve holding Israel accountable.

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When one side has carte blanche support from the most technologically advanced military in history, if there is any moral high ground I would have to give that benefit to the side fighting with whatever surplus and homemade crap they can get their hands on.

 

 That's just the point. Neither side can claim the moral high ground. In the past Palestinians have attempted to draw attention to ther plight by blowing up airliners, bombing nightclubs and cafes, and bombing busses. They grabbed headlines by tossing old people out of wheelchairs into the ocean. And in this specific example they fire rockets into Israel from crowded residential areas, hospital parking lots, or anywhere else that thier own civilians can provide them with a handy human shield.

 

 

 

 

 I am sure Hamas would love to have precision-guided weapons, heavy tanks, and most importantly the political capital on the international stage to use them at will.

 

If Hamas had better weapons at it's disposal they'd use them to kill more jews. They admit this freely. No moral high ground to be found there.

 

 

 

 

 

 The recent rocket attacks on Israel have killed ONE person. I don't think there's any moral high ground at all, myself, but there's certainly not one to be found in killing hundreds of civilians with nicer equipment.

 

Israel's nicer equipment includes cell phone apps that warn citizens where rockets strikes are about to occur and a state-of-the-art Iron Dome weapon system that knocks the rockets down. By comparison, when firing rockets into Israel Hamas protects itself by using it's own civilians as human shields. So take a wild guess which side has higher civilian casualties?  

 

 

 

  The form the Palestinian resistance has taken was inevitable.

 

How many innocent Palestinians would be alive today if Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israel? 

 

Or more specifically, would there be 4 dead Palestinian boys on a beach to mourn if Hamas weren't firing more than a thousand rockets into Israel?

 

 

 

 

 

 

All that being said, I am not convinced either side truly wants peace, at least not under the current leadership. I would suggest, though, that the way forward is going to involve holding Israel accountable.

 

So, neither side wants peace, but one side has to be held accountable because they're dying less often than the other?

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A simple question for you.

 

If Hamas weren't firing thousands of rockets into Israel would those four boys on the beach be dead today?

 

 

This is the lack of accountability I am referring to; the notion that Israel is only reacting to provocation, that they are somehow the victim. 

 

If Israel hadn't forced a population into refugee status and then systematically oppressed them for decades, would they be firing ineffectual rockets at them despite the lopsided & overhwhelming repercussions just for the sake of offering some symbolic resistance?

 

 

 



So, neither side wants peace, but one side has to be held accountable because they're dying less often than the other?

 

 

No, both sides have to be held accountable.

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If Israel hadn't forced a population into refugee status and then systematically oppressed them for decades, would they be firing ineffectual rockets at them despite the lopsided & overhwhelming repercussions just for the sake of offering some symbolic resistance?

 

Symbolic displays of resistance lead directly to dead babies, dead teenagers, and lopsided casualty figures.

 

By refusing to stop firing rockets into Israel Hamas seems willing to pay in innocent blood for to the photo-ops that result.

 

 

 

 

No, both sides have to be held accountable.

 

We both know those four dead boys alive today if Hamas wasn't firing rockets into Israel.

 

Also of note, a relative of one of the dead boys blamed both Israel and Hamas before admitting that 10 family members had been killed by Hamas in earlier "factional infighting"

 

So much for claims of genocide.

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The very fact you can rationalize the killing of 4 innocent kids (whose deaths you have actually heard about since they were killed in front of dozens of journalists, but there are many more kids who have been killed.  In fact 25% of the deaths have been children) says everything about your stance I need to know.

 

I pity your lack of humanity.

 

These are kids.....they didn't vote for Hamas but were gunned down.  And here you are rationalizing the behavior and putting the onus on the Palestinians for their death.  Unbelievable. 

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Israel Defending itself through the years...

 

 

shrinking-map-of-palestine.png

 

 

I admit the longstanding Palestinian strategy based upon demanding Israel disolve itself before participting in good faith peace negotiations doesn't seem to be working in the way Palestinians hoped.

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The very fact you can rationalize the killing of 4 innocent kids (whose deaths you have actually heard about since they were killed in front of dozens of journalists, but there are many more kids who have been killed.  In fact 25% of the deaths have been children) says everything about your stance I need to know.

 

I pity your lack of humanity.

 

These are kids.....they didn't vote for Hamas but were gunned down.  And here you are rationalizing the behavior and putting the onus on the Palestinians for their death.  Unbelievable. 

 

 

It's a simple question, but you seem unwilling to answer it. 

 

If Hamas wasn't firing rockets into Israel would those children still be alive?

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It's a simple question, but you seem unwilling to answer it. 

 

If Hamas wasn't firing rockets into Israel would those children still be alive?

 

They aren't alive.  They were murdered by Israeli military.  You trying to shift the blame isn't changing that.  You're pathetic, using tactics straight out of a paid Israeli shill handbook.  Maybe you needed a second job:

 

Israel To Pay Students For Pro-Israeli Social Media Propaganda
The Huffington Post UK  | By Lucy Sherriff
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Posted: 14/08/2013 16:33 BST Updated: 14/08/2013 16:46 BST
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Israel has announced it will pay university students to circulate pro-Israeli information on social media networks, without having to identify themselves as working for the government.

The move was publicised in a statement from Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office, the Associated Press reported. Students will receive scholarships to "engage international audiences online" and combat anti-Semitism and calls to boycott Israel, it was alleged.

In 2012, a Palestinian-run blog reported similar arrangements between the National Union of Israeli Students and the Israeli government. Students would be paid $2,000 to post pro-Israel messages online for five hours a week.

According to Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz, the most recent proposition is being spearheaded by Danny Seaman, who was slammed by the media for writing anti-Muslim messages on Facebook.

Students will be organised into units at each university, with a chief co-ordinator who receives a full scholarship, three desk co-ordinators for language, graphics and research who receive lesser scholarships and students termed “activists” who will receive a “minimal scholarship”, the Independent reported.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/14/israel-pay-students-propaganda_n_3755782.html

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