MichaelWeston Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I won't shed a single tear if we lose him to teams who are willing to overpay him. It happens every year in FA, and year and year out we've consistently made the right choice to stay away from the bidding wars. There are hundreds of cases of mega-deals that were busts, with only a handful that worked out the other way. You like to keep your own when you can, but not when it comes at the price of the long-term success of your franchise, and for MJ I'd put his ceiling/worth at around $8M, maybe $8.5 tops. Not much new there. In fact, we all knew this moment would come once he took the tag and Dunlap took his deal last year. We can take solace in knowing that we ended up with the better player -- AND the better deal. And let's not forget who else we have on this team, who deserves every penny he gets - along with the majority of MJ's sack stats. The only question now is, who's the next Wallace Gilberry? Or better yet, who's the next 3rd round pick we get argue about whether or not we want to keep in 4 or 5 years? I think we all thought this would happen but then the cap went up about 7 million this year and is rumored to go up about 30 million over the next two years. That's the big difference. That was the game changer. The money was there to pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I think we all thought this would happen but then the cap went up about 7 million this year and is rumored to go up about 30 million over the next two years. That's the big difference. That was the game changer. The money was there to pay him. Before we were going to be strapped to sign all of AJ, Burfict, and Dalton to long term deals, with Gio and possibly Marvin Jones and Eifert (not to mention the next Burfict or Geno or other unexpectedly emergent superstar) following soon behind them. Now we can actually sign those guys. And before you turn this into another Dalton Detour, we know for a fact that he's going to be our guy this season for sure. If he knocks it out of the park and pulls a Joe Flacco, we sure as shit will have wished that we had blown our wad on the third best player on our Defensive line and now had none to pay the QB we all wanted to keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I won't shed a single tear if we lose him to teams who are willing to overpay him. It happens every year in FA, and year and year out we've consistently made the right choice to stay away from the bidding wars. There are hundreds of cases of mega-deals that were busts, with only a handful that worked out the other way. You like to keep your own when you can, but not when it comes at the price of the long-term success of your franchise, and for MJ I'd put his ceiling/worth at around $8M, maybe $8.5 tops. Not much new there. In fact, we all knew this moment would come once he took the tag and Dunlap took his deal last year. We can take solace in knowing that we ended up with the better player -- AND the better deal. And let's not forget who else we have on this team, who deserves every penny he gets - along with the majority of MJ's sack stats. The only question now is, who's the next Wallace Gilberry? Or better yet, who's the next 3rd round pick we get argue about whether or not we want to keep in 4 or 5 years? I wouldn't give him $1 million a year. He had 4 sacks out of 1000 snaps.Let him leave.Why is everyone so obsessed about losing him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I wouldn't give him $1 million a year. He had 4 sacks out of 1000 snaps.Let him leave.Why is everyone so obsessed about losing him? Fear of change. It's a common trait among the small minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I wouldn't give him $1 million a year. He had 4 sacks out of 1000 snaps.Let him leave.Why is everyone so obsessed about losing him? We take a step back as a franchise by letting him go. His numbers otherwise went up last year across the board with the exception of sacks. He was ranked by pro football focus as the number two 4-3 defensive end in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 'No market' for free agent running back ... (Rotoworld) A source who "actively worked the phones" on the first day of the NFL's free-agency negotiating period Saturday noted to Profootballtalk.com that "there's currently no market for running backs." Back to the thread topic. Looks like the market at RB might be really slow. I will be really curious to see what Blounts, McFaddens and Tate's final contracts look like. I think that regardless of what happens with Lawfirm bringing in a vet at RB makes a ton of sense at a low price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 got 9-11 mil a year for mj wit a big sb. probly a 1/3-1/2 guarenteed if that many teams want him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 'No market' for free agent running back ... (Rotoworld) A source who "actively worked the phones" on the first day of the NFL's free-agency negotiating period Saturday noted to Profootballtalk.com that "there's currently no market for running backs." Back to the thread topic. Looks like the market at RB might be really slow. I will be really curious to see what Blounts, McFaddens and Tate's final contracts look like. I think that regardless of what happens with Lawfirm bringing in a vet at RB makes a ton of sense at a low price tag. Yeah, BJGE is pretty overpaid compared to the market. There are much better backs available at the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 We take a step back as a franchise by letting him go. Yeah, but for how long? Myself, I still want MJ back and I'm still hoping for an 11th hour deal that keeps him in Bengals stripes. But that said, I don't want a new deal at any cost and if MJ is allowed to leave I'm not going to piss and moan about it until I see how the Bengals react and backfill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 ESPN - Jets tell CB Antonio Cromartie he will be cut; he tweets thanks to team for "helpin me grow as leader" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Looks like Branden Albert is going to sign with the Fins. Could help Zach Martin potentially drop to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 ESPN - Jets tell CB Antonio Cromartie he will be cut; he tweets thanks to team for "helpin me grow as leader" Why not take a chance on him ? He would be cheaper than Leon Hall. Potentially an equal or better CB. Yes, he has an injury issue with the hips but what would be wrong with structuring a contract to reflect a team's doubt ? I do believe there will be a team to take a flyer on him but do not believe it will be the Bengals. Oh, thanks for reminding me why I would be a terrible GM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Some interesting tweets from Dehner today.... Paul Dehner Jr.@pauldehnerjr6h @JasonB_Marcum @BMeek23 @Jake_NFL Maybe match, but there's not as much $ available as people think. Blake Meek@BMeek236h @pauldehnerjr @JasonB_Marcum @Jake_NFL I'm not buying that. There is plenty of money there. Everything out there says 29 mil under cap Paul Dehner Jr.@pauldehnerjr6 hrs @BMeek23 It's $23. Then you count $15-$20 mil or so for draft, RFA, injuries, dead $,etc., you're prob looking at $4-$7 mil to spend. Blake Meek@BMeek236h @pauldehnerjr your number is lower than EVERYONE else's. there is no possible way we have 4-7 mil to spend on Collins and Johnson Paul Dehner Jr.@pauldehnerjr6 hrs @BMeek23 How many people you are getting numbers from have talked w/ #Bengals management in the last week? Paul Dehner Jr.@pauldehnerjr6 hrs @BMeek23 That's fine, I'm only telling you reality of what they are saying and thats ALL that really matters here. Sounds like in addition to the normal "pad" for injuries, rookies and other bullshit we have managed to magically make $6M in cap space disappear to the point where we have only $4-7M of real space to sign guys. The creative accounting this team uses never ceases to amaze me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Some interesting tweets from Dehner today.... Paul Dehner Jr.@pauldehnerjr6h@JasonB_Marcum @BMeek23 @Jake_NFL Maybe match, but there's not as much $ available as people think. Blake Meek@BMeek236h@pauldehnerjr @JasonB_Marcum @Jake_NFL I'm not buying that. There is plenty of money there. Everything out there says 29 mil under cap Paul Dehner Jr.@pauldehnerjr6 hrs@BMeek23 It's $23. Then you count $15-$20 mil or so for draft, RFA, injuries, dead $,etc., you're prob looking at $4-$7 mil to spend. Blake Meek@BMeek236h@pauldehnerjr your number is lower than EVERYONE else's. there is no possible way we have 4-7 mil to spend on Collins and Johnson Paul Dehner Jr.@pauldehnerjr6 hrs@BMeek23 How many people you are getting numbers from have talked w/ #Bengals management in the last week? Paul Dehner Jr.@pauldehnerjr6 hrs@BMeek23 That's fine, I'm only telling you reality of what they are saying and thats ALL that really matters here. Sounds like in addition to the normal "pad" for injuries, rookies and other bullshit we have managed to magically make $6M in cap space disappear to the point where we have only $4-7M of real space to sign guys. The creative accounting this team uses never ceases to amaze me. I suspect they have also budgeted some money for extensions for AJ, Vontaze, etc. I think they will get at least 1 big extension done before the season, but they might not get the serious negotiations going until the summer, same as Carlos and Geno last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I suspect they have also budgeted some money for extensions for AJ, Vontaze, etc. I think they will get at least 1 big extension done before the season, but they might not get the serious negotiations going until the summer, same as Carlos and Geno last summer. That would make a lot more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 yea they've long had $8-10M earmarked for Dalton and Green alone, which has always factored into Hobson's numbers which some people seem to miss. And honestly at this point that amount alone should be just for Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I suspect they have also budgeted some money for extensions for AJ, Vontaze, etc. I think they will get at least 1 big extension done before the season, but they might not get the serious negotiations going until the summer, same as Carlos and Geno last summer. Why save money when the cap is going to go up anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Four-time All-Pro defensive end Jared Allen is not planning on returning to Vikings, according to a league source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Why save money when the cap is going to go up anyways I am thinking that when those guys get extensions, their cap numbers are going to go up a lot in 2014. So it isn't necessarily saving money to carry forward for future years, but saving money for later this year. That is what happened with Geno and Carlos in 2013, so that when FA ended in 2013, it looked like we still had a lot of money to spend but in the end when those extensions were signed, we ended up pretty close to the cap. So for example, Vontaze has a cap number of less than $1M as of today. He is going to get a big signing bonus if he signs and even though it will be spread out over multiple years, it will still bump his 2014 cap number way up. So if he goes from $500,000 cap number as of now to like $7M, that is another $6.5M less cap space that we have this year. If both AJ and Vontaze sign this summer, they could easily eat up $15 million of the $30M or whatever of cap space we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I am thinking that when those guys get extensions, their cap numbers are going to go up a lot in 2014. So it isn't necessarily saving money to carry forward for future years, but saving money for later this year. That is what happened with Geno and Carlos in 2013, so that when FA ended in 2013, it looked like we still had a lot of money to spend but in the end when those extensions were signed, we ended up pretty close to the cap. So for example, Vontaze has a cap number of less than $1M as of today. He is going to get a big signing bonus if he signs and even though it will be spread out over multiple years, it will still bump his 2014 cap number way up. So if he goes from $500,000 cap number as of now to like $7M, that is another $6.5M less cap space that we have this year. If both AJ and Vontaze sign this summer, they could easily eat up $15 million of the $30M or whatever of cap space we currently have. I've been under the impression that that is the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 To add a little more context to the previous post, Geno's extension took his 2013 cap number from under $1M to just a little over $7M last summer. It ate up over $6M of our 2013 cap space. Carlos' contract extension bumped his cap number from a little over $1M to just a little under $7M in 2013. Between the 2 of them, they cost about $12M of cap space last summer. I could be off on the exact numbers, but I think we went from having like $18M of cap space to about $6M when those 2 guys got their extensions. It's entirely possible that we see something similar this year where we end free agency with $15 or $20M of cap space but then summer extensions get us pretty close to the cap. At least that is what I hope happens. If the salary cap goes up to $150 or $160M in a couple years, we better not let AJ or Vontaze hit the open market... (I could definitely be wrong, but I think Andy will end up playing out the last year of his deal and if he has a good season, he will get franchise tagged next March and they will try to work out a long term deal with him this time next year, which will eat up a bunch of our 2015 cap space.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Four-time All-Pro defensive end Jared Allen is not planning on returning to Vikings, according to a league source. Why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Why ? Don't know. That's coming from his agent after talks broke off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 To add a little more context to the previous post, Geno's extension took his 2013 cap number from under $1M to just a little over $7M last summer. It ate up over $6M of our 2013 cap space. Carlos' contract extension bumped his cap number from a little over $1M to just a little under $7M in 2013. Between the 2 of them, they cost about $12M of cap space last summer. I could be off on the exact numbers, but I think we went from having like $18M of cap space to about $6M when those 2 guys got their extensions. It's entirely possible that we see something similar this year where we end free agency with $15 or $20M of cap space but then summer extensions get us pretty close to the cap. At least that is what I hope happens. If the salary cap goes up to $150 or $160M in a couple years, we better not let AJ or Vontaze hit the open market... (I could definitely be wrong, but I think Andy will end up playing out the last year of his deal and if he has a good season, he will get franchise tagged next March and they will try to work out a long term deal with him this time next year, which will eat up a bunch of our 2015 cap space.) I'm the Bengals GM in a mock offseason over at Football's Future. So I've been looking at Bengal contracts and the cap situation pretty closely. The Bengals have a lot of cap space and should have freedom to be proactive in free agency. For instance they only have about 34 players under contract for 2015 currently but have more than 60 mil in cap space available for that season (plus any carryover). Any rookies who make the team in 2014 will be under contract for 2015 at second year salaries. In the mock the Bengals re-signed Collins ahead of free agency (probably too cheaply), outbid other teams to keep MJ, tendered Vinnie Rey at 2nd round level, let Hawkins and Sanzenbacher enter free agency. Only Bengal FA we wanted back that we lost was Mays but got Jeron Johnson instead for same money. Added Jason Campbell, Vonta Leach, Rashad Jennings, Brian de la Puente, Jerome Simpson, Jacoby Jones, Dan Connor, Cortland Finnegan. Re-signed Ghee, Pollak, Hawkins, Sanzenbacher. Getting ready for the draft with about 14 mil in cap space. We exercised the 2015 option on Green and will try to get an extension for Burfict before we're done. Anyway the point of this isn't to pat myself on the back but to point out that the Bengals have plenty of cap space to be active in free agency if they want to. They apparently don't plan to be active but using the cap as an excuse is bogus. We gave MJ a 9 mil per year offer, de la Puente cost 4.8 mil, AJ's tag will put him on the books for 2015 at a bit over 10 mil, we'll offer Burfict a contract comparable to what Bowman and Willis are making. At QB the plan is to keep Dalton on his 2014 salary, sign a vet backup (Campbell as it turned out), and draft a rookie QB. If Dalton plays well in both the regular and post seasons in 2014 then we extend him or tag him. Plenty of cap space to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 You collecting FBs and WRs to do your pool or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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