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[quote name='AAA' date='Jul 21 2005, 06:55 AM']Otherwise you would realize those stats are misleading. Most of those stats are from his one and only good season.
[right][post="116850"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Kinda like Ben last season, right?
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[quote name='Beaker' date='Jul 21 2005, 10:34 AM']Kinda like Ben last season, right?
[right][post="116922"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


how does comparing Ben's rookie season to AAA's comment make any sense?

He was pointing out that Palmer's first 3 years in college were disappointing....but he did have one good year, which got him drafted.....

those who say Ben does not have a strong arm and lacks accuracy, just didn't watch him during the season....
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[quote name='CoolieMan' date='Jul 21 2005, 02:38 PM']how does comparing Ben's rookie season to AAA's comment make any sense?

He was pointing out that Palmer's first 3 years in college were disappointing....but he did have one good year, which got him drafted.....

those who say Ben does not have a strong arm and lacks accuracy, just didn't watch him during the season....
[right][post="116923"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Because of all the ben stats that were previously posted...one good season can inflate stats. Bottom line is that both are good QBs. We just think Ben got ALOT of support from his running game and his D. He was asked to manage games, Palmer was often behind and was asked to win games.

I think Palmer will be better served by the experience with more adversity in his second yr. I think Ben will struggle a little more than Palmer this yr. We are both happy with our guys, and we will all see together how this yr plays out.
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Guest oldschooler

[quote name='Sluzilla' date='Jul 20 2005, 06:20 PM']nobody's enshrined him yet...but here's an interesting stat...from nfl.com...

Ben
BEHIND BY 9-TO-16 POINTS  QB Rating 117.9
BEHIND BY 1-TO-8 POINTS  QB Rating 106.3

Carson
BEHIND BY 9-TO-16 POINTS  QB Rating 71.5
BEHIND BY 1-TO-8 POINTS  QB Rating 82.3
admittedly...Ben looked horrid in his first post-season...in his first year...but again...as a rookie he seems to perform better than Carson when behind...
[right][post="116666"][/post][/right][/quote]



Let me see. Big Ben`s team had the #1 Defense and the #1 rushing
Offense on his team. Carson`s team had 18 players go on IR and
a suspect defense.

Hell Trent Dilfer had a #1 defense and a #1 rushing offense
and all he did was win a Super Bowl. Big Ben made sure
his team didn`t even make it to the Super Bowl with his 3 INT`s...
but yet he is great ? :blink:

Anyway Palmer opened up ALOT of eyes in his last 4 performances
against the Steelers (2nd game), Browns, Ravens and Patriots.
Ben Roethlisberger opened alot of eyes in the Playoffs....
where he had a whooping QB rating of 61.3


[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PYDS/2004/post"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PYDS/2004/post[/url]

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[quote name='oldschooler' date='Jul 21 2005, 10:52 AM']Let me see. Big Ben`s team  had the #1 Defense and the #1 rushing
Offense on his team. Carson`s team  had 18 players go on IR and
a suspect defense.

Hell Trent Dilfer had a #1 defense and a #1 rushing offense
and all he did was win a Super Bowl. Big Ben made sure
his team didn`t even make it to the Super Bowl with his 3 INT`s...
but yet he is great ?  :blink:

Anyway Palmer opened up ALOT of eyes in his last 4 performances
against the Steelers (2nd game), Browns, Ravens and Patriots.
Ben Roethlisberger opened alot of eyes in the Playoffs....
where he had a whooping QB rating of 61.3
[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PYDS/2004/post"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PYDS/2004/post[/url]
[right][post="116929"][/post][/right][/quote]

what does QB rating have to do with defense rating? granted the Steelers running game allowed Ben to win more of his games, but he still rated pretty high....

again I will fall back on a rookie qb in the playoffs.....you can't expect them to perform as well as a veteran....as a Steeler fan, I hoped he would be better, but the pressure is even greater than the regular season, which Palmer will find out if the bengals ever make the playoffs.....

Yes, Palmer had a nice game against the Steelers....but who won.....granted it was more because your Defense was weak...for some reason it always seems to me that whoever the Bengals have at QB, they find a way to torch the Steelers....luckily though the Steelers also seem to find a way to beat you guys....

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Guest bengalrick
[quote name='AAA' date='Jul 21 2005, 01:55 AM']It's obvious you never watched Carson play much in college, especially prior to his senior season. [b]Otherwise you would realize those stats are misleading.[/b] Most of those stats are from his one and only good season, 2002. His 3 seasons prior to that were NOT great by any means. Palmer was the top recruit coming out of college. Everyone at USC thought he would be the answer. He was huge disappointment for 3 years. If it wasn't for his one and only good season he would have been one of the biggest recruiting flops in college history. He didn't even get Chow's offense until he simplified it. Carson has always struggled to read defenses. He has all the physical tools in the world but when it comes to football smarts he's below average at best.
[right][post="116850"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

so were bens last year...

how many different OC's did he have during his first 3 years, while on his way to breaking must of USC's records?

and how can you be so pumped about ben... i mean, the highlights for his college career were cincinnati every year... he sure as hell didn't play teams like carson played his whole career... ben could be alright, but since he has had one game to prove he can be a good passer, and he looked like i would out there, i wouldn't be so sure that he is the answer... he dind't play much competition in college, and you guys had a great team last year, so he wasn't exposed until the playoffs..
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[quote name='Sluzilla' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:36 AM']ok...let's try this then...kordell never led the steelers to the super bowl...

kordell lost every afcc game he was starting QB in...
for someone claiming to be more educated than other fans...you are failing miserably...yes...you ARE ignorant...
[right][post="116828"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Neil O'Donnell then same thing they looked the same at least after he lead you to the super bowl he was at least back the next year. Oh wait he went to the Jets well that was thet best move he ever made.
Education on steeler football facts is not for me it tends to make people fish, dip, and date cousins.

Where did you go?
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]
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[quote name='BrassBengal' date='Jul 21 2005, 11:35 AM']Neil O'Donnell then same thing at least after he lead you to the super bowl he was at least back the next year.  Oh wait he went to the Jets well that was smart best move he ever made. 
Education on steeler football facts is not for me it tends to make people fish, dip, and date cousins.

Where did you go?
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]
[right][post="116940"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

It would just be education on over all football info...I know that is a lot to expect from a bengals fan......

bengalrick....and others.....I find it amusing that you all seem to think that how a rookie performs in the playoffs is more telling of his future than how he performed the rest of the season.....maybe this year Palmer will find out what playoff football is all about...it is not the same pressure as the regular season...I for one am damn glad Ben had the opportunity to learn in the second biggest game of the season...yes he looked bad....yes, I wish he wouldn't have thrown those ints....but at least he had the chance......
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Guest bengalrick

[i]bengalrick....and others.....I find it amusing that you all seem to think that how a rookie performs in the playoffs is more telling of his future than how he performed the rest of the season.....maybe this year Palmer will find out what playoff football is all about...it is not the same pressure as the regular season...I for one am damn glad Ben had the opportunity to learn in the second biggest game of the season...yes he looked bad....yes, I wish he wouldn't have thrown those ints....but at least he had the chance......[/i]

it doesn't matter that it happened in the playoffs... he never had to throw the ball much through out the year, and put his team on his shoulders... the one game he did have to, he played horribly... i don't know if he'll be a star in the NFl, but he sure didn't show me he was FOR SURE last year...

i'll give you the benefits of already playing a playoff game... that does count for something...

if you're offense can run the ball, like you did last year then ben will be fine... if he is forced to put the offense on his shoulders, and carry this team w/ his arm [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] good luck... i dont see it happeneing... carson did have to do that last year... his stats are misleading last year too, b/c his first 6 games, he didn't do that good... and that was throwing the ball a hell of a lot... you may have a qb w/ some playoff experience, but he didn't have the experience like carson did, of thorwing the ball a lot last year...

one thing is for sure though, the afc north is looking stacked and is probably the best division in the nfl again this year... 3 teams are playoff caliber teams, and then there are the browns.. :lol: it is going to be a fun year this year...

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[quote name='CoolieMan' date='Jul 21 2005, 09:38 AM']how does comparing Ben's rookie season to AAA's comment make any sense?

He was pointing out that Palmer's first 3 years in college were disappointing....but he did have one good year, which got him drafted.....

those who say Ben does not have a strong arm and lacks accuracy, just didn't watch him during the season....
[right][post="116923"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Strong enough to watch it waddle in the air...and accurate enough to throw it to the other team...yah i saw that
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[quote name='AAA' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:33 AM']Carson Palmer had 4 years as a QB in college and 1 season starting in the NFL and has had only ONE good season. He finally put it together his senior season after Norm Chow had to dumb down his offense so Carson could understand it. I know, I'm a USC fan and I've watched all of his college games. The funny thing is Chow expanded the playbook after Carson left for a FIRST year starter (Leinhart). So you guys have a QB with one good season thanks to a OC who is known to make QBs look good and you guys think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Carson had a year to sit on the bench and learn. Then he was named the starter. So he took all of the offseason snaps as a starter. Ben took all of the offseason snaps as a backup and was thrown into action as a rookie and yet he still played better than Carson. But he did falter in the playoffs. No one can deny that. But he still got his team to the playoffs as a ROOKIE. Speaking of winning games when was the last time the Bengals had a winning season? I guess when your team has been the laughing stock of the league for more than a decade you have to grasp at straws.
[right][post="116827"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Didn't Carson go through 3 offensive coordinators? Chow, Jackson and I can't remember who else. When he finally had a year under his belt in the chow system it started to click. Leinert had 2 years to absorb the Chow system before he started.
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[quote name='bengalrick' date='Jul 21 2005, 11:53 AM'][i]

if you're offense can run the ball, like you did last year then ben will be fine... if he is forced to put the offense on his shoulders, and carry this team w/ his arm  [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]   good luck... i dont see it happeneing... carson did have to do that last year... his stats are misleading last year too, b/c his first 6 games, he didn't do that good... and that was throwing the ball a hell of a lot... you may have a qb w/ some playoff experience, but he didn't have the experience like carson did, of thorwing the ball a lot last year...

one thing is for sure though, the afc north is looking stacked and is probably the best division in the nfl again this year... 3 teams are playoff caliber teams, and then there are the browns.. :lol: it is going to be a fun year this year...
[right][post="116950"][/post][/right][/quote]

no shit....if your offense can run the ball like the Steelers did last season....you will probably make the playoffs...(if you can keep a few starters on D healthy)...the ground game helps you control the clock.....keep the other team's offense on the bench...that is where they need to be.....Ben does have a lot to prove to the NFL....but so does Palmer....neither one has made a case for being a sure fire super star....but both have potential.....Ben's arm did win some games late last year....the Steelers were behind some and he did have to lead them to 4th quarter rallies.....but yeah....the running game helped relieve some pressure....

barring injuries.....I see the Steelers taking the division with the bengals probably second and the shitstains sucking hind tit...again......

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[quote name='sean' date='Jul 21 2005, 11:57 AM']Didn't Carson go through 3 defensive coordinators? Chow, Jackson and I can't remember who else. When he finally had a year under his belt in the chow system it started to click. Leinert had 2 years to absorb the Chow system before he started.
[right][post="116956"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

what does a defensive coordinator have to do with carson?
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[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 21 2005, 11:55 AM']Strong enough to watch it waddle in the air...and accurate enough to throw it to the other team...yah i saw that
[right][post="116954"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

and Palmer NEVER throws ints??????????
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[quote name='CoolieMan' date='Jul 21 2005, 11:03 AM']what does a defensive coordinator have to do with carson?
[right][post="116964"][/post][/right][/quote]

Did I say that? AAA must have had me on the defensive. :P

Thanks, I'll be here all week. Try the veal, tip your waitress.

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[quote name='sean' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:10 PM']Did I say that? AAA must have had me on the defensive. :P

Thanks, I'll be here all week. Try the veal, tip your waitress.
[right][post="116971"][/post][/right][/quote]

what if she spills my drinks on me?????

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Guest bengalrick

then don't tip the bitch!! :lol:

i agree w/ everything... except your prediction of coarse :)

i say:
bengals 10-6
steelers 9-7
ravens 8-8
browns 2-14

but at this point, we are all going off biases... injuries and momentum will be essential in this division this year...

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[quote name='bengalrick' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:44 PM']then don't tip the bitch!! :lol:

i agree w/ everything... except your prediction of coarse :)

i say:
bengals 10-6
steelers 9-7
ravens 8-8
browns 2-14

but at this point, we are all going off biases... injuries and momentum will be essential in this division this year...
[right][post="117003"][/post][/right][/quote]

the browns win 2 games.....I think you are giving them too much credit...

i am not even going to ask why you think the Steelers will lose 7.....wishful thinking on your part I believe.....

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Guest bengalrick

[quote name='CoolieMan' date='Jul 21 2005, 11:48 AM']the browns win 2 games.....I think you are giving them too much credit...

[b]i am not even going to ask why you think the Steelers will lose 7.....wishful thinking on your part I believe.....[/b]
[right][post="117007"][/post][/right][/quote]

:lol: kinda...

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[quote name='CoolieMan' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:53 PM']unless the ol completely falls apart....I just don't see the steelers losing 7 games....
[right][post="117012"][/post][/right][/quote]


and with that new olinemen of yours.... :P

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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:54 PM']and with that new olinemen of yours....  :P
[right][post="117013"][/post][/right][/quote]

as I said......I know my girlfriend is hot....you don't have to keep bringing her up.....she aint heavy...she's my lover






note to all.....yes....I am joking......I could never get a woman that hot......

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[quote name='CoolieMan' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:57 PM']as I said......I know my girlfriend is hot....you don't have to keep bringing her up.....she aint heavy...she's my lover






note to all.....yes....I am joking......I could never get a woman that hot......
[right][post="117015"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]
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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Jul 21 2005, 12:57 PM'] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]
[right][post="117017"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

thank you....thank you....I'm here all week....
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