Steelernation

[VaSteelerFan]

[quote name='BadassBengal' date='Jul 23 2005, 02:58 AM']Carson did more with less at the end. That's all I care about when it comes to my QB. Now we're givin him some shit, and he's gonna do some shit. Muthafucka has more stats than oldschooler...
[right][post="118063"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Huh?

This whole thread is full of Bengal fans using the rest of the team as the excuse why Ben had BETTER stats than Carson. Carson did not do more with less, he did much less with less. Maybe you can find some obscure stat that shows Carson did more in some category than Ben, but I have not seen it yet. Maybe you are talking about INT's. Carson did do more in that case.

[JC]

[quote name='VaSteelerFan' date='Jul 23 2005, 10:44 AM']No, it just means they expect the Bengals will have to sling the ball all over the field late in games because the defense will be giving up 30 points a game.  Throwing more means more yards for the QB.

Although, I am not sure why they rank them the way they do.  Last season, Ben outscored Carson in most FF leagues.
[right][post="118125"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

and when you throw more you have more stats and more throwing yards means more completions and more attempts and more touchdowns.

and they ranked them that way because they think carson will have better stats this season.

[bearcat7777]

Stats, Stats, Stats Clearly Ben had the better numbers over the year. The concern comes in his last games. Ben got worst as the year progress. Please see:

[url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6770/gamelog"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6770/gamelog[/url]

When teams found out what his tendencies were they adjusted. This downward trend leaves some doubt as to what his real ability is. Take the last Bengal game when Ben had a QB rating of 104 on 15/21 for 139 yards. But the rating does not count the seven sacks for 54 yards. It would have been better for the team for him to have thrown the ball away but he didn't thereby inflating his stats at the expense of the team.



Carson meanwhile started off slow and showed continued improvement as the season progressed. Please see:

[url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6337/gamelog"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6337/gamelog[/url]


Carson has shown a tendency to make a key turnover. He had interceptions go for touchdowns against some very good teams, Pitts twice, NE & Balt. A lot of his Int set up the opponents for easy scores - as in the Cleveland game. So Carson's big problem heading in to this season is to minimize his turnovers. If he can keep his 2 to 1 ratio on TD vs Int that he had the last six games then he will be alright.

Ben was rumored to be injured late in the season and we know that his playbook was limited. So can he bounce back from that, well that is what we shall see.


So I guess both sets of fans are happy with their young quarterbacks. The Bengals with their improving Carson and the Steelers with their declining Ben. We shall see who has the better stats this year. I'm betting on Carson. Don't expect any gifts from him this year.

[VaSteelerFan]

[quote name='bearcat7777' date='Jul 23 2005, 03:31 PM']The concern comes in his last games.  Ben got worst as the year progress.  Please see:

[url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6770/gamelog"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6770/gamelog[/url]

When teams found out what his tendencies were they adjusted.  This downward trend leaves some doubt as to what his real ability is.  Take the last Bengal game when Ben had a QB rating of 104 on 15/21 for 139 yards.  But the rating does not count the seven sacks for 54 yards.  It would have been better for the team for him to have thrown the ball away but he didn't thereby inflating his stats at the expense of the team. [/quote]

Don't you think some of those tendencies teams discovered were because of the limited playbook you mentioned? Apparently, Ben got so bad, he put up a 125.1 QB rating vs Baltimore's 6th ranked defense. You also forgot to mention the calibur of defenses he faced in that stretch.

Nov 28 - Washington - 3rd ranked defense in the NFL - QB Rating 66.9 - W16-7
Dec 5 - Jacksonville - 11th ranked defense in the NFL - QB Rating 158.0 - W17-16
Dec 12 - NY Jets - 7th ranked defense in the NFL - QB Rating 33.6 - W17-6
Dec 18 - NYG - 13th ranked defense in the NFL - QB Rating 84.8 - W33-30
Dec 26 - BAL - 6th ranked defense in the NFL - QB Rating 125.1 - W20-7

You will also remember that Burress was out for all but the BAL game during that stretch. Combine suddenly losing a starting WR and playing against top NFL defenses, and I wouldn't say Ben fell apart.

Sure, Ben took some sacks, but on how many occasions did he make huge plays when other QB's would have tossed the ball out of bounds to keep from getting hit? IMO, he made more than enough plays to offset the negative impact of him taking too many sacks.

Ben was sacked 7 times in the CIN game, but that was definately not the norm for him. The other 23 sacks were spread over 13 games. It seems to be a running theme for many Bengals fans. Take a single occurance of something, and manufacture a weakness.


[quote]Carson meanwhile started off slow and showed continued improvement as the season progressed.[/quote]


So, since Carson had 3 good games late in the year, he can only get better. Because Ben struggled a bit against top NFL defenses after suddenly losing a starting WR, he can only get worse.

There is so much denial on this board about Ben and his accomplishments. He was a rookie QB thrown into a game in week 2, and starting in week 3. He then proceded to out-play every rookie QB in the history of the NFL. That all means nothing though. You see, Carson Palmer had 3 good games at the end of his season, which means Carson is clearly the better QB.... and if you don't agree, you're just a blind homer Steeler fan.

[Guest bengalrick]

i was bored so i blew the dust off the tape of the second pitt/cincy game... pretty good game actually... ben looked pretty good and its obvious that its pretty hard to compare ben to carson or vice versa... ben is moves more in the pocket and last year, he didn't seem to have many passing plays in his playbook... that isn't a knock on ben, just a testiment to pitt's run offense...

carson, on the other hand, has a lot of people around him, but not quite the same running offense... our running is good, but not great... it should be better this year, but that isn't hear nor there b/c that is a guess from a homer... but we have the same 5 and the same te's (which are only good for blocking) so they really should be better this year... but palmer definatly got much better as the season went along last year... i taped most of the games from last year, and you can see a marked difference from game 1 and 2 to game 11 and 12... that is why bengals fans are blinded by our rose color glasses right now to all these stats you are throwing at us... we are remembering the progress... IF it continues, the skys the limit... he has the arm and actually lost like 20 pounds this offseason, so he has agility too...

all in all, we have two of the better qb's in our division and they will probably face each other 10 times in the next 5 years, so we will be talking about this comparison for a long time...

i can't find the quote from these novels you guys are writing, but someone said that we were down 35-21 when we went down, so he wasn't going to be able to bring us back... what you didn't mention was the very next play, we faked a field goal and scored a td... we had two more chances to tie, w/ rusty, noodle arm kitna in there, and he didn't get the job done... it wasn't kitnas fault really... its hard to come in late in a ballgame and win the game, but i think that carson would have given us a real chance...

he made some mistakes all year, and you guys are hounding on this first year stuff which is fine.. ben will be a very good qb, and so will carson... they will be different kind of qb's though, b/c flat out, carson has "favre-like" arm strength and the second ravens game definately proves taht point... not many qb's can make the two late td's throws and many wouldn't try b/c they were threading the needle... ben has the ability to get out of the pocket, and the size to break would-be sacks and still keep the play alive... he reminds me of steve young b/c young was that, but he would run the ball much more... ben usually looks to throw...

its going to be a fun year of trash talking w/ you guys though

[Guest bengalrick]

here is a breakdown of carson's first 6 games and last 6 games (he only missed the last 3 games, but got hurt in the 4rth quarter of NE game... i left it out to for an easier breakdown...)

[b]Carson Palmer:[/b]
first 6 games: 211 attempts / 116 complete (54.9%); 1221 yards (10.52 ypc) 5 tds, 9 int's
last 6 games: 221 attempts / 147 complete (66.5%); 1676 yards (11.4 ypc) 13 tds, 9 int's

[b]Chad Johnson:[/b]
first 6 games (w/ palmer): 30 catches, 483 yards; 2 tds
last 6 games (w/ palmer): 45 catches, 588 yards; 5 tds

[b]TJ Houshmanzadeh:[/b]
first 6 games (w/ palmer): 18 catches, 233 yards, 0 tds
last 6 games (w/ palmer): 28 catches, 422 yards, 3 tds


i also added tj's and chad progression, b/c tj really caught fire mid way through last year, which eased the pressure off chads double and triple coverage... there is a marked difference, and this is why we are all so pumped up the td's we much higher, the ints were the same, and the percentage was much better... i did these stats myself, so i don't know the qb rating but i'd guess it aroudn 90-100...

and tj's success wasn't just b/c of carson's progression (though it helped) b/c he still had 27 catches for 323 yards in the last 4 games...

chad actually did get hurt by carson going down though, b/c he only had 20 catches for 203 yards... carson going down last year, probably cost us a wildcard bid

theres the stats we're pumped about...

[JC]

I always thought it was good to improve over the season then to become worse...i guess it just shows improvement

[mulepower]

TheCarsonShow quoting that whole reply and then saying nothing. I understand you have no fight in you just like the rest of the Bengal fans. If you can't refute points,it would be better to just go to sleep. I haven't seen one Bengal fan step up to prove my points wrong in that post and i don't think i will. Bring it or are you a bunch of cowards. Where's your damn backbone? We see it when your team has sucked with Steeler fans flooding your stadium with terrible towels. We know most of the Bengal fans are bandwagoneers.




Bearcat,

Like i stated previously,look who Ben played the last seven games. First,against the Bengals he admitted most of those sacks were on him. Throwing the ball away requires the QB to make sure he won't get an intention grounding penalty.A sack is better than a turnover.The Bengals in the second half, only managed only 42 yards and two first downs. Yeah in the second half of that game,Carson completed four passes out of eleven attempts. He was sacked three times in the second half and got an intention grounding penalty resulting in a Safety ending the game. It would have been better for Carson to get rid of it than take those sacks. Whats a better decision taking a sack or throwing it risking an int. or a penalty. Ben made the right decisions on some of those sacks ,the only thing is he needs to learn to get rid of it quicker.


Ben led the Steelers back against the Jags and Giants.Even playing bad against the Jets in the regular season the score was tied 3 all in the 4th quarter. Ben went 4 out of 5 for 99 yards in the 4th quarter. What Bengal fans don't know is they think any QB could have led the Steelers to a 15 and 1 record. There were teams just as good but their QBs didn't do that.



Let me remind you again of a few games where he was instrumental in the victory.

Threw a TD late in the rains of Miami to seal the game.

His long throws on the run helped beat Cleveland who were 2 and 2 before the loss.

Against the Cowboys leads them on a 4th quarter TD drive and then later on after a fumble recovery throws two crucial passes to set up a TD run.

He lead the Steelers on the game winning drive against the Jags where Jeff Reed kicked a FG to win it.

He helped win the game by throwing 2 TD passes against the Ravens before getting hurt.

Ben led some comebacks. In the first Bengals game your team had the led 17 to 14 at the end of third quarter. In the second game,the Bengals had the lead at halftime 14 to 10. The Bengals scored no more points.


When the Steelers needed him,Ben came through most of the time. How about Carson?






Improvement in the last three games has determined for Bengal fans that Carson is superior and not only had a better year but will have a better career. Lets us know when Carson beats the two teams who will be in the Super Bowl. Hell,beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. He had chance after chance after chance. Until Carson does,it doesn't matter who he beats. You gotta get through us.We're the division champs with a former rookie QB who hasn't even tapped his potential and he still had a better year than the almighty Carson Palmer who came back against one team and threw 3 interceptions against the 4 and 12 Cleveland Browns.

Rip Ben all you want because the Steelers still have a better team and next year Bengal fans will continue making excuses for their number one pick. I guess just because he isn't as bad as Akili Smith or David Klinger,its reason for Bengal fans to jump up for joy. Congratulations!

Only two rookie QBs have won a playoff game since the merger in 1970. Ben was one of them,so to even take anything out of his playoff performance is insane.

Carson did less with more since your offense has better players. Will it be a repeat?


FWIW

Here's the completion percentage for passes that are 0 to 20 yard throws for starting QBs who threw over 200 passes in that range :

1. Griese 72.2% (185 for 256)

2. Ben 71.4% (152 for 213)

3. Culpepper 71.2% (246 for 346)

4. Manning 70.4% (259 for 368)

5. Brees 69.3 % (178 for 257)

6. McNabb 68.8% (229 for 333)

7. Green 68.4% (253 for 370)

8. Volek 68.2% (161 for 236)

9. Bulger 67.9% (209 for 308)

10. Favre 67.5% (249 for 369)

11. Leftwich 65.8% (210 for 319)

12. Palmer 65.3% (203 for 311)

13. Delhomme 65.0% (215 for 331)

14. Testaverde 63.9% (209 for 327)

15. Pennington 63.8% (141 for 221)

16. Brady 63.7% (192 for 301)

17. McCown 63.0% (165 for 262)

18. Collins 62.5% (203 for 325)

19. Rattay 62.2% (155 for 249)

20. Boller 62.1% (179 for 288)

21. Carr 61.9% (190 for 307)

22. Bledsoe 61.7% (193 for 313)

23. Hasselbeck 61.5% (209 for 340)

24. Plummer 60.8% (217 for 357)

25. Vick 59.0% (121 for 205)

26. Feeley 58.2% (163 for 280)

27. Harrington 57.3% (180 for 314)

28. Brooks 55.5% (211 for 362)

[Randog]

Palmer may have an OK arm, but he can't tackle worth a damn.

[img]http://randenstein.homestead.com/files/cpowned3.jpg[/img]

[AAA]

Watch it mulepower, TheCarson Show might quote your entire post and follow up with some funny faces again.

bengalrick, your last two posts were the most objective and well thought out by a Bengal fan in this thread. I don't think Carson improved as much as those stats indicate, and I don't think he'll be as good as you think, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Southern Steeler]

This smack talk is terrible here......must be indicative of Cincinnati in general.


Supe and I are here now........The SteelerNation is taking over.

[mulepower]

[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 23 2005, 05:44 PM']I always thought it was good to improve over the season then to become worse...i guess it just shows improvement
[right][post="118255"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Its easy to improve from a 54% completion percentage and almost twice as many Ints than passing TDs.

Its easier to improve as a second year player, first year starter than a rookie,especially when that rookie had to play in the playoffs.


We can break it down any number of ways with or without the playoffs.

[JC]

[quote name='mulepower' date='Jul 23 2005, 05:52 PM']TheCarsonShow quoting that whole reply and then saying nothing. I understand you have no fight in you just like the rest of the Bengal fans. If you can't refute points,it would be better to just go to sleep.  I haven't seen one Bengal fan step up to prove my points wrong in that post and i don't think i will. Bring it or are you a bunch of cowards. Where's your damn backbone? We see it when your team has sucked with Steeler fans flooding your stadium with terrible towels. We know most of the Bengal fans are bandwagoneers. 


  Bearcat,

Like i stated previously,look who Ben played the last seven games.  First,against the Bengals he admitted most of those sacks were on him. Throwing the ball away requires the QB to make sure he won't get an intention grounding penalty.A sack is better than a turnover.The Bengals in the second half, only managed only 42 yards and two first downs. Yeah in the second half of that game,Carson completed four passes out of eleven attempts.  He was sacked three times in the second half and got an intention grounding penalty resulting in a Safety ending the game. It would have been better for Carson to get rid of it than take those sacks. Whats a better decision taking a sack or throwing it  risking an int. or a penalty. Ben made the right decisions on some of those sacks ,the only thing is he needs to learn to get rid of it quicker. 
  Ben led the Steelers back against the Jags and Giants.Even playing bad against the Jets in the regular season the score was tied 3 all in the 4th quarter. Ben went 4 out of 5 for 99 yards in the 4th quarter. What Bengal fans don't know is they think any QB could have led the Steelers to a 15 and 1 record. There were teams just as good but their QBs didn't do that. 

 

    Let me remind you again of a few games where he was instrumental in the victory.

Threw a TD late in the rains of Miami to seal the game.

His long throws on the run helped beat Cleveland who were 2 and 2 before the loss.

Against the Cowboys leads them on a 4th quarter TD drive and then later on after a fumble recovery throws two crucial passes to set up a TD run.

He lead the Steelers on the game winning drive against the Jags where Jeff Reed kicked a FG to win it.

He helped win the game by throwing 2 TD passes against the Ravens before getting hurt.

Ben led some comebacks. In the first Bengals game your team had the led 17 to 14 at the end of third quarter. In the second game,the Bengals had the lead at halftime 14 to 10. The Bengals scored no more points. 
When the Steelers needed him,Ben came through most of the time. How about Carson?

 
 
  Improvement in the last three games has determined for Bengal fans  that  Carson is superior and not only had a better year but will have a better career. Lets us know when Carson beats the two teams who will be in the Super Bowl. Hell,beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. He had chance after chance after chance. Until Carson does,it doesn't matter who he beats. You gotta get through us.We're the division champs with a former rookie QB who hasn't even tapped his potential and he still had a better year than the almighty Carson Palmer who came back against one team and threw 3 interceptions against the 4 and 12 Cleveland Browns. 

Rip Ben all you want because the Steelers still have a better team and next year Bengal fans will continue making excuses for their number one pick. I guess just because he isn't as bad as Akili Smith or David Klinger,its reason for Bengal fans to jump up for joy. Congratulations! 

  Only two rookie QBs have won a playoff game since the merger in 1970. Ben was one of them,so to even take anything out of his playoff performance is insane. 

  Carson did less with more since your offense has better players. Will it be a repeat?
  FWIW

Here's the completion percentage for passes that are 0 to 20 yard throws for starting QBs who threw over 200 passes in that range :

1. Griese 72.2% (185 for 256)

2. Ben 71.4% (152 for 213)

3. Culpepper 71.2% (246 for 346)

4. Manning 70.4% (259 for 368)

5. Brees 69.3 % (178 for 257)

6. McNabb 68.8% (229 for 333)

7. Green 68.4% (253 for 370)

8. Volek 68.2% (161 for 236)

9. Bulger 67.9% (209 for 308)

10. Favre 67.5% (249 for 369)

11. Leftwich 65.8% (210 for 319)

12. Palmer 65.3% (203 for 311)

13. Delhomme 65.0% (215 for 331)

14. Testaverde 63.9% (209 for 327)

15. Pennington 63.8% (141 for 221)

16. Brady 63.7% (192 for 301)

17. McCown 63.0% (165 for 262)

18. Collins 62.5% (203 for 325)

19. Rattay 62.2% (155 for 249)

20. Boller 62.1% (179 for 288)

21. Carr 61.9% (190 for 307)

22. Bledsoe 61.7% (193 for 313)

23. Hasselbeck 61.5% (209 for 340)

24. Plummer 60.8% (217 for 357)

25. Vick 59.0% (121 for 205)

26. Feeley 58.2% (163 for 280)

27. Harrington 57.3% (180 for 314)

28. Brooks 55.5% (211 for 362)
[right][post="118260"][/post][/right][/quote]


Well shit carson almost had as many completions as ben had attempts...anyways i like my odds with palmer taking a team to the super bowl...i guarantee he wouldn't choke in the afcc game...if only he would have had those last two damn games

[mulepower]

[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 23 2005, 09:11 PM']Well shit carson almost had as many completions as ben had attempts...anyways i like my odds with palmer taking a team to the super bowl...i guarantee he wouldn't choke in the afcc game...if only he would have had those last two damn games 
[right][post="118306"][/post][/right][/quote]


Actually Ben had almost as many yards throwing a lot less.

Carson Palmer would choke in the AFCC game. He choked all throughout the year and i have yet had anyone address those games i brought up where he did. He choked against the Steelers twice. If Carson would have played the last part against NE,and the last three games they would have went 2 and 2 the last four games. No playoffs still. The Bengals wouldn't have went 10 and 6.

[JC]

[quote name='mulepower' date='Jul 23 2005, 09:18 PM']Actually Ben had almost as many yards throwing a lot less.

  Carson Palmer would choke in the AFCC game. He choked all throughout the year and i have yet had anyone address those games i brought up where he did. He choked against the Steelers twice.  If Carson would have played the last part against NE,and the last three games they  would have went 2 and 2 the last four games. No playoffs still. The Bengals wouldn't have went 10 and 6.
[right][post="118311"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


well he did have a pretty good game against the ravens...that def. wasnt a choke

Against the pats? he wasnt having a problem in that game..and they would have made the playoffs

[mulepower]

[quote name='AAA' date='Jul 23 2005, 07:05 PM']Watch it mulepower, TheCarson Show might quote your entire post and follow up with some funny faces again.


[right][post="118274"][/post][/right][/quote]


This time Palmerfor President did and wrote a few statements, which i guess is an improvement.

[Nati Ice]

and your a moron...

how did carson "choke all throughout the year"

[mulepower]

[quote name='Nati Ice' date='Jul 23 2005, 09:23 PM']and your a moron...

how did carson "choke all throughout the year"
[right][post="118314"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Try to keep up. Its on another post.

Lets talk about the Carson Palmer who brings his team back He's a number one pick who had ample opportunities to win more games.
Against the NYJ,Palmer throws a pick with two minutes left on the last drive when a TD could have tied it,sending the game into OT. Hey that was his first choke.

Third start,3 int. against the Ravens and couldn't get them into the end zone. Hey its the second choke.

Fourth start,a little over two minutes left down by four points against the Steelers. What does he do? Troy Polomalu picks his pass off and runs him over at the goal line to score. Then next possession Palmer throws an int. to Chad Scott to just about end the game. Another choke.

Why couldn't Palmer against the Browns in the first game lead the Bengals to any TDs in the second half? Yep another choke job.

Against Tennessee,Palmer had 2nd and goal at the 9 with 35 seconds left. He even said," I should've gone one-two and thrown it out of the back of the end zone, stop the clock and give us a chance on third down," Palmer said. Instead was sacked by Haynesworth and fumbled. This is the Tennessee team that wins their division yearly. Oh thats right,they went 5 and 11,last in the division. Before that game,they were 2 and 5. Another choke job.

Against the Steelers again,with a chance to win the game Carson starts at his own nine yard line. Gets sacked by 34 year old Kimo on first down.Second down,Williams and Aaron Smith hit Palmer in the end zone causing a intentional grounding penalty.Why couldn't Palmer lead his team to any TDs in the second half,heck any FGs. In the second half, Cincinnati's offense managed only 42 yards and two first downs. Another choke job.

The second game against the Browns,Palmer kept the Browns in it with three interceptions. Two of the picks gave the Browns field position at the seven and one making it easy to score 14 points. The other one resulted in a FG. Yeah Palmer threw 4 TDs and the Browns went 4 and 12.

Before Palmer got hurt the score was Patriots 35 and Bengals 21.So i don't think he would have won that game for the Bengals.

[Guest Superman]

[quote name='BadassBengal' date='Jul 22 2005, 11:36 PM']Is that right?

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

Someone didnt watch Mr. Palmer durin the second half of the season...
[right][post="117934"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


and someone didnt watch Ben for an entire season.

oh, and here's your smilies.

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img]

[Nati Ice]

we were on a drive when he got hurt dumbass, the score would then have been 28 - 35, and we got the ball back after the pats next possession so yea, if he wouldnt have gotten hurt we could have very easily beaten the pats

[Nati Ice]

first off... for all sakes and purposes carson was a rookie this year, he didnt even play a down last year... all he did was practice, so his "experience" isnt even applicable


[b]NFL.com QUARTERBACK PASSING STATS
Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 14 13 295 196 66.4 2621 8.88 58 17 11 30/213 43 7 98.1
2004 Cincinnati Bengals 13 13 432 263 60.9 2897 6.71 76 18 18 25/178 34 8 77.3 [/b]


lets examine the stats mathematically, shall we...

first off - carson had nearly 50% more passing attempts and roughly the same completion percentage as benji... therefore - like everyone else has said... BEN WAS NOT TESTED... hell, the only starter in the afc who had less passing attempts was gaycia, a homosexual who was hurt and yet still had nearly as many attempts as big ben!!!

benji was a handoff specialist... pittsburgh was ranked 2nd in rushing yards a game and 1st in attempts... rankings in which the bengals were ranked 17th and 18th respectably... pittsburgh had 140% the amount of rushing attempts that the bengals had and 130% the amount of yards and yet you want to sit here and tell me that carson choked!!!

carson was a damn rookie who went even in td/int ratio... a DAMN good percentage for a rookie qb who plays in a primarily passing offense...

just face it... benji had a better td/int ratio but he works in a running offense, he did not have to put up the same numbers that carson was expected to do... pittsburgh was 5th to last in passing yards a game in the entire nfl!!! and DEAD FUCKING LAST IN ATTEMPTS AND ATTEMPTS PER GAME!!!!!!!!

as you can tell... ben is not a bad quarterback... i am not attempting to make that arguement but if you are too dense to understand these stats you probably oughtta go back to donkey puching the rest of your pissburgh friends muleboy

[AAA]

You obviously don't know shit about football if you think a year of going through training camp, watching film, and learning an offense doesn't give a QB any advantage before starting.

Palmer spent 5 years at USC before coming to the Bengals. Then he had an entire year to sit and learn, plus 2 training camps and 2 sets of preseason games to prepare. Plus he took all of the offseason snaps as the #1 QB.

Ben played 3 years at college from a small conference. He didn't have a year to sit and learn. He took all of the offseason snaps as a backup. The offense was never designed with the thought that he would start in 2004. Tom Brady said there was a HUGE difference between his rookie season and his 2nd. He said he had no clue what was going on as a rookie.

Btw, if it was so easy for the Steelers to just let Ben hand off and take away all the pressure why didn't the Bengals do that for Carson? And this Ben was never tested shit is ridiculous. Obviously you never watched any of the Steelers games or read anything in mulepower's 1st post. Again, the QB playing for a losing team with nothing on the line is under more pressure, while the QB playing for the playoff contender was under less pressure. WTF?? But Carson threw the ball more so he's better.

[Randog]

Last year, we made it to the AFCC game. We lost to the Pats, but we made it. With a [b]rookie[/b] QB.

When was the last time the Bengals made it to the playoffs again?

And unless your D is WAY better in 2005 than in 2004, expect to see Palmer winging it out all the time as you guys play from behind game after game. As a Steeler fan, I am supremely confident that our D and running game will be two HUGE plusses that will make a more seasoned Ben's second year as a starter that much easier.

Damn, I'm glad I'm not a Bungle fan. I wouldn't have much to look forward to.

Obligatory smilies...

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

[JC]

another one of you?...why dont you go back to the hell hole they call pittsburgh and cheer for your gangster qb

[Randog]

[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 24 2005, 12:01 AM']another one of you fuckers...why dont you go back to the hell hole they call pittsburgh
[right][post="118385"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Wow. Using profanity against me. Many people would consider that to be very rude.

I think you should be banned for calling me a "fucker".

Fuckstick.