Bengals have begun Contract Extension talks with Burfict

[|Lucid|]

Back on topic...

 

TEZ FODDER:  Speaking of Tez, despite a FOX report that the sides have made progress toward a long-term extension, a Burfict deal didn’t look imminent heading into the weekend. The Bengals have been hammering away for an extension the past couple of weeks and indications late this week were they weren’t near a deal. But if someone in the negotiations is the source for a story that says the gulf has narrowed, things could change. The Bengals’ blueprint is to wrap up Burfict, quarterback Andy Dalton, and maybe others before tackling the mega deal for A.J. Green.

 

Leave it Hobson to throw cold water on any positive news. Also, they want to do, Taze, Dalton and "maybe others" before Green??? What sense does that make?

 

I think it's a PR way of saying not to expect any movement on that front this season.

[Jamie_B]

Only others coming up that I'd think are possible would be Gresh

[Phatcat]

Back on topic...

 

TEZ FODDER:  Speaking of Tez, despite a FOX report that the sides have made progress toward a long-term extension, a Burfict deal didn’t look imminent heading into the weekend. The Bengals have been hammering away for an extension the past couple of weeks and indications late this week were they weren’t near a deal. But if someone in the negotiations is the source for a story that says the gulf has narrowed, things could change. The Bengals’ blueprint is to wrap up Burfict, quarterback Andy Dalton, and maybe others before tackling the mega deal for A.J. Green.

 

Leave it Hobson to throw cold water on any positive news. Also, they want to do, Taze, Dalton and "maybe others" before Green??? What sense does that make?

 Don't have the quote verbatim, but seems in line with what Mike Brown said this offseason.  They want to sign Dalton, but if not they have to move on.  Guessing they are still in that window given the window they have with AJ is 2 years..  And all the chatter with attempts to sign Burfict is great.  Where there is smoke there is fire.     Not taking this as cold water but just the cold hard facts of the NFL and signing players to long term contracts.    

[Jackie Treehorn]

This thread is exhibit 1A as to why I no longer come here first for Bengal news and rarely contribute.  A Burfict thread turns into a Dalton thread.  Really!?   
 
A lot of good people on this forum.  Unfortunately the moderators and owner are the most trollish.   Sad.   

Can you point me in the direction of another Bengal fan site worth checking out? Every thread on here turns to the same people talking about the same dalton shit over and over again.

[Inigo Montoya]

There is plenty to disagree about regarding a new deal for Dalton. On the other hand, I think just about everyone agrees on a new deal for Burfict being a good thing. It would be the best and biggest move so far this off-season, IMO. Tez deserves a new deal based off his performance and the team should be able to pay less than they would on the open market since they control him contractually for the next two years.

[Squirrlnutz]

 

I think it's a PR way of saying not to expect any movement on that front this season.

 

Yeah its nice having the 5th year option on AJ.  The cap situation is set up to extend all these guys over two years as well as pay for two "franchise tags" at the same time if necessary.

I imagine they are telling Andy's camp that they will use the franchise tag if necessary and sticking around that 15 number.  Dalton's camp would be stupid to not start the conversation at Flacco's contract, but it would be pretty sensible to split the difference and agree this year.  If not, he may face two prove-it years because he can play well and still not come to terms at the end of 2014 so he gets franchised and has to do it again.  Or he will tank and bring his value down with him.  

My money is on deals for both Dalton and Burfict before week 1.

[HairOnFire]

Only others coming up that I'd think are possible would be Gresh

 

You go to hell.

 

You go to hell and you die.

[Oldcat]

Back on topic...

 

TEZ FODDER:  Speaking of Tez, despite a FOX report that the sides have made progress toward a long-term extension, a Burfict deal didn’t look imminent heading into the weekend. The Bengals have been hammering away for an extension the past couple of weeks and indications late this week were they weren’t near a deal. But if someone in the negotiations is the source for a story that says the gulf has narrowed, things could change. The Bengals’ blueprint is to wrap up Burfict, quarterback Andy Dalton, and maybe others before tackling the mega deal for A.J. Green.

 

Leave it Hobson to throw cold water on any positive news. Also, they want to do, Taze, Dalton and "maybe others" before Green??? What sense does that make?

 

Green already got a raise for next year when they signed his 5th year option a few weeks ago.  His offseason where a long term deal is really needed is next offseason, not this one.

[Oldcat]

 

Yeah its nice having the 5th year option on AJ.  The cap situation is set up to extend all these guys over two years as well as pay for two "franchise tags" at the same time if necessary.

I imagine they are telling Andy's camp that they will use the franchise tag if necessary and sticking around that 15 number.  Dalton's camp would be stupid to not start the conversation at Flacco's contract, but it would be pretty sensible to split the difference and agree this year.  If not, he may face two prove-it years because he can play well and still not come to terms at the end of 2014 so he gets franchised and has to do it again.  Or he will tank and bring his value down with him.  

My money is on deals for both Dalton and Burfict before week 1.

 

The other thing I hope the Dalton team is keeping in mind is that if they get too high a number, that will put the squeeze on the other positions and the defense because we won't be able to field as good a team.  Maybe he should ask for 20, then send 5 or so back to the team to pay the offensive line.

[USN Bengal]

 
An argument isn't just contradiction.
An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Now THAT is funny... +1 for any relevant Money Python reference!

[Le Tigre]

What do you want?
Well I was told outside ...
Don't give me that you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
What!
Shut your festering gob you tit! Your type makes me puke! You vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert!
Look! I came here for an argument.
Oh! I'm sorry, this is abuse.
Oh I see, that explains it.
No, you want room 12A next door.
I see - sorry.
Not at all. Stupid git.

[Jamie_B]

 
You go to hell.
 
You go to hell and you die.

:lol:

Wait am I going to get accused of trolling you for that post?

:ninja:

[happyrid]

I think with AJ we are on pretty solid ground. Off the top of my head, I don't think a single 1st rounder from that draft class has got an extension yet (though Patrick Peterson is reportedly close).

 

Seems like the teams, the agents or both are content to push those extensions off into the future another year. In part due to the fact that those 2015 option years are actually pretty lucrative. So there's not a huge sense of urgency from the player/agent to get anything done that's particularly team friendly. For the team, if they aren't getting a team friendly deal, then what's the point of taking on the extra risk of the early extension?

 

Totally different situation with Burfict. He is set to play for peanuts in 2014. And he knows that most likely he'd have to play for $3M or so in 2015 if he doesn't do a team friendly extension (teams aren't going to want to do a big contract AND give up a 1st rounder plus). So Vontaze and his agent are actually going to be very open to a team friendly extension and the Bengals of course should be as well.

[Oldcat]

I think with AJ we are on pretty solid ground. Off the top of my head, I don't think a single 1st rounder from that draft class has got an extension yet (though Patrick Peterson is reportedly close).

 

Seems like the teams, the agents or both are content to push those extensions off into the future another year. In part due to the fact that those 2015 option years are actually pretty lucrative. So there's not a huge sense of urgency from the player/agent to get anything done that's particularly team friendly. For the team, if they aren't getting a team friendly deal, then what's the point of taking on the extra risk of the early extension?

 

Totally different situation with Burfict. He is set to play for peanuts in 2014. And he knows that most likely he'd have to play for $3M or so in 2015 if he doesn't do a team friendly extension (teams aren't going to want to do a big contract AND give up a 1st rounder plus). So Vontaze and his agent are actually going to be very open to a team friendly extension and the Bengals of course should be as well.

 

The 5th year option is like a free franchise tag year...a little less expensive but around market rate.  With cap going up agents have an interest in holding off a year.

[happyrid]

 

The 5th year option is like a free franchise tag year...a little less expensive but around market rate.  With cap going up agents have an interest in holding off a year.

 

Yeah, exactly. The further from FA a guy is, the more team friendly the deal usually. When you have guys like Atkins, Dunlap, Burfict, etc. who are locked in to cheap rookie deals, they are cool with taking a more team friendly offer because if they don't, it's a ton of risk to go play for peanuts for a year or 2 and risk injury. Especially for guys who have never had a real payday and only banked a few million total their first 3 years. It's worth maybe losing a couple million a year on the back end for an instant huge payday and lifetime security with a big signing bonus. 

 

With these first round guys who make good money their first 4 years (I think AJ averaged about $6M per) and then get pretty lucrative 5th year money (around $10M), there is less risk involved to just play it out. They already have made money. And they aren't risking injury for peanuts because their salaries in year 4 and 5 are pretty high. 

 

Next offseason is probably when we will see a flurry of deals for those 1st round guys heading into their option years. 

 

The pecking order (not in terms of talent, just in terms of timing) for the Bengals is going to be:

1. Vontaze (likely in the next month),

2. Andy (likely March 2015) and then

3. AJ (likely summer 2015 or even summer 2016 since they also have the franchise tag). 

[Oldcat]

 

Yeah, exactly. The further from FA a guy is, the more team friendly the deal usually. When you have guys like Atkins, Dunlap, Burfict, etc. who are locked in to cheap rookie deals, they are cool with taking a more team friendly offer because if they don't, it's a ton of risk to go play for peanuts for a year or 2 and risk injury. Especially for guys who have never had a real payday and only banked a few million total their first 3 years. It's worth maybe losing a couple million a year on the back end for an instant huge payday and lifetime security with a big signing bonus. 

 

With these first round guys who make good money their first 4 years (I think AJ averaged about $6M per) and then get pretty lucrative 5th year money (around $10M), there is less risk involved to just play it out. They already have made money. And they aren't risking injury for peanuts because their salaries in year 4 and 5 are pretty high. 

 

Next offseason is probably when we will see a flurry of deals for those 1st round guys heading into their option years. 

 

The pecking order (not in terms of talent, just in terms of timing) for the Bengals is going to be:

1. Vontaze (likely in the next month),

2. Andy (likely March 2015) and then

3. AJ (likely summer 2015 or even summer 2016 since they also have the franchise tag). 

 

Another possibility is that Andy gets locked down around training camp time.  That's when the Atkins/Dunlap contracts came through IIRC

[Arkansas Bengal]

Can you point me in the direction of another Bengal fan site worth checking out? Every thread on here turns to the same people talking about the same dalton shit over and over again.

 

Here you go--enjoy!

 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/90650/

[Le Tigre]

What a weird-assed site that is.

[|kennethmw|]

 

Here you go--enjoy!

 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/90650/

 

That's gotta be one of your favorite sites.  You probably feel right at home.

[Inigo Montoya]

I think with AJ we are on pretty solid ground. Off the top of my head, I don't think a single 1st rounder from that draft class has got an extension yet (though Patrick Peterson is reportedly close).
 
Seems like the teams, the agents or both are content to push those extensions off into the future another year. In part due to the fact that those 2015 option years are actually pretty lucrative. So there's not a huge sense of urgency from the player/agent to get anything done that's particularly team friendly. For the team, if they aren't getting a team friendly deal, then what's the point of taking on the extra risk of the early extension?
 
Totally different situation with Burfict. He is set to play for peanuts in 2014. And he knows that most likely he'd have to play for $3M or so in 2015 if he doesn't do a team friendly extension (teams aren't going to want to do a big contract AND give up a 1st rounder plus). So Vontaze and his agent are actually going to be very open to a team friendly extension and the Bengals of course should be as well.

Agreed. The option year for AJ is a de facto franchise tag and it's not a situation that creates much leverage for either side. Burfict is another story. The team has him on the cheap for the next two years and will probably get a favorable deal as a result.

[Arkansas Bengal]

 

That's gotta be one of your favorite sites.  You probably feel right at home.

 

Hey Kenneth--GO FUCK YOURSELF!

 

Loser

[coup000]

If AJ makes it to the summer of 2016 without a deal, there is a VERY real chance we lose him. At that point there is no incentive for him to sign a long term deal that isn't top of the market. We don't tend to pay top of the market. If I am the Bengals I have a ton of urgency to get a deal done this offseason, once we get past this year there is very little incentive for him to sign and leverage for us to use. If he hits the open market, he's gone.

[sparky151]

If AJ makes it to the summer of 2016 without a deal, there is a VERY real chance we lose him. At that point there is no incentive for him to sign a long term deal that isn't top of the market. We don't tend to pay top of the market. If I am the Bengals I have a ton of urgency to get a deal done this offseason, once we get past this year there is very little incentive for him to sign and leverage for us to use. If he hits the open market, he's gone.

 

2016 would be AJ's first year on a tag. He could plausibly be tagged again in 2017. A third tag would require paying him the QB tag amount so that's unlikely. But a new contract for him will pay an amount similar to the tags so apart from not being able to use the tag on someone else there isn't much urgency.

[HairOnFire]

Can you point me in the direction of another Bengal fan site worth checking out? Every thread on here turns to the same people talking about the same dalton shit over and over again.

 

 

Well, if you're up for the job my old spot at Bengalszone has yet to be filled.

 

Applicants hoping to replace me there will need to average 6 posts per day, but it's not as much work as it sounds as many of my posts were one-liners or dick jokes.

 

That said, you will need to make your one-liners and dick jokes so memorable that many years later more forgettable posters like Marvin can still be outraged by posts they can't even remember. Happily, that task is easier than it might seem once you've developed your own recognizable brand.

 

Last, please note that if you do choose to move on you'll need to provide your own wet blanket before becoming accepted as an official Zoner.

[happyrid]

 

Another possibility is that Andy gets locked down around training camp time.  That's when the Atkins/Dunlap contracts came through IIRC

 

Definitely possible. I personally think its something like a 75% chance he plays out 2014 without an extension and a 25% chance they get something done this summer. So wouldn't shock me at all, but if I had to bet on 2014 vs. 2015 for the extension, my money would be on 2015.

 

Not to get too far OT in the Vontaze thread, but I think you have to look at the incentives for both sides for a deal around $15M a year today.

 

For the Bengals, there isn't too much urgency there. If they wait and Andy has a great year, they still can probably get something done in that general neighborhood and they have the franchise tag as leverage. If they are offering $13M, is there really a big incentive to drop a bunch of guaranteed money now and meet him at $15M or more instead of waiting?

 

Dalton's side is in a similar boat. If his agent takes a "below market" offer (anything under $17M imo), other agents will use that to recruit against him when the next big FA QB is looking for an agent. Andy's stats in his first 3 years say he should get that Ryan, Stafford, Romo type of deal and he probably feels very confident that he can go out and earn that type of money with his play in 2014. So there's no incentive for him to go down to $15M or belownow.

 

I just tend to think they are pretty far apart even though we're talking about a few million a year. For example, its possible that the Bengals are offering 5 years $65M ($13M a year) and Dalton is asking for 5 years $85M ($17M a year). When you are talking about 5 years, the annual gap really adds up and they could be $20M or more apart on the overall deal.