Bengals have begun Contract Extension talks with Burfict

[bubba]

I think Burfict is the most important extension to get done out of he, AJ and Dalton.   Show him how much you appreciate him busting his ass and playing how he did at less than $500k per year avg for the past 2 yrs.  

Yes

[Le Tigre]

No...no..no...let him walk. We needz to spendz teh money on ohter needzzz!!

[Khatmandude]

No...no..no...let him walk. We needz to spendz teh money on ohter needzzz!!

 

We have players in 2019 that will need a contract! 

[HairOnFire]

I think Burfict is the most important extension to get done out of he, AJ and Dalton.   Show him how much you appreciate him busting his ass and playing how he did at less than $500k per year avg for the past 2 yrs.  

 

 Those who would make him wait just because they can are missing the point entirely. He's outperformed his contract every year. Reward that. 

[fluhartz]

 

 Those who would make him wait just because they can are missing the point entirely. He's outperformed his contract every year. Reward that. 

 

 

correct

[sparky151]

Yeah, Burfict is the most underpaid of him, Dalton, and Green. He should be first in line for an extension.

[coup000]

It is pretty clear how the Bengals operate. Burfict's agent will come in there with those lists of players that 1181 posted and say he deserves to be paid xxxx, the Bengals will respond that the reality is they control Burfict for the next 2 years at about $4M and for the next 3 at $10 or 11M if they use the franchise tag. They'll give him the option of playing the next 3 years for $10M (all non guaranteed) or the option to take some amount guaranteed now ($8-10M) and sign for 5 years 25ish or so.

 

That's how they do business. They got Geno Atkins, a top ten player in the league at a higher value position to take $10M per year, Burfict isn't getting anything close to that. 4-3 LBs are paid more like RBs than DEs.

[HairOnFire]

That's how they do business. They got Geno Atkins, a top ten player in the league at a higher value position to take $10M per year.

 

Those bastards!

 

IMHO the Bengals do business in exactly the same manner that most NFL teams do business, with the obvious exception being those teams that refuse to renegotiate with any player who has at least two years remaining on his contract. There are plenty of those.

 

Myself, I think this way is better and I point to Atkins and Dunlap as proof of admittedly team friendly deals that the players themselves were absolutely thrilled to sign. Burfict would be no different.

[coup000]

 

Those bastards!

 

IMHO the Bengals do business in exactly the same manner that most NFL teams do business, with the obvious exception being those teams that refuse to renegotiate with any player who has at least two years remaining on his contract. There are plenty of those.

 

Myself, I think this way is better and I point to Atkins and Dunlap as proof of admittedly team friendly deals that the players themselves were absolutely thrilled to sign. Burfict would be no different.

It's smart as hell. I've never said differently, I'm just pointing out that fact to the people who think Burfict is going to get some monster extension. He'll sign a team friendly deal or he won't sign at all.

 

I'm not quite as sure that Geno was "thrilled" to sign his deal, but I'm sure he doesn't have to cry himself to sleep considering he's already pocketed 22M from his deal. For a top 10 player in the NFL it still wasn't a great deal, just enough to be better than the alternative of playing out your contract and having no guarantees.

[alleycat]

But the difference is the Bengals almost always pay their guys through their contracts, so there is no funny money, and that has to mean something value-wise to the player also.

[SlantNGo]

It's smart as hell. I've never said differently, I'm just pointing out that fact to the people who think Burfict is going to get some monster extension. He'll sign a team friendly deal or he won't sign at all.

 

I'm not quite as sure that Geno was "thrilled" to sign his deal, but I'm sure he doesn't have to cry himself to sleep considering he's already pocketed 22M from his deal. For a top 10 player in the NFL it still wasn't a great deal, just enough to be better than the alternative of playing out your contract and having no guarantees.

 

Especially coming off a major injury like Geno's. Ask Henry Melton how the FA market was for a top DT coming off a major injury.

[|RayDoggBengal|]

But the difference is the Bengals almost always pay their guys through their contracts, so there is no funny money, and that has to mean something value-wise to the player also.

That's what a lot of people don't understand.  Sure a team will give someone a 5yr 50mil contract with 20 guaranteed, but 20 of that will be on the backend and they'll never see it.  They'll get cut before that 15mil last year.  So it becomes a 4yr 35mil

 

With the Bengals 5yr 45mil contract will pay 45mil.  That's 10mil in the last year vs getting cut and trying to find someone to pay you that 15mil.

[coup000]

That's what a lot of people don't understand.  Sure a team will give someone a 5yr 50mil contract with 20 guaranteed, but 20 of that will be on the backend and they'll never see it.  They'll get cut before that 15mil last year.  So it becomes a 4yr 35mil

 

With the Bengals 5yr 45mil contract will pay 45mil.  That's 10mil in the last year vs getting cut and trying to find someone to pay you that 15mil.

Agents and players understand it just as well as we do. The agents like to have the huge numbers attached to their names but everyone with any sense knows that they aren't seeing the last portion of most of those contracts. In some cases they bank on that. Sign a 5 year deal that has huge cap charges/base salaries in years 4 and 5 and you have the chance to pocket huge dollars in years 1-3 and then get cut and sign another deal with another signing bonus, just like Dqwell Jackson did recently. There are positives and negatives.

[sois]

But the difference is the Bengals almost always pay their guys through their contracts, so there is no funny money, and that has to mean something value-wise to the player also.

 

x2, that's a cool think MB does.

[HairOnFire]

It's smart as hell. I've never said differently, I'm just pointing out that fact to the people who think Burfict is going to get some monster extension. He'll sign a team friendly deal or he won't sign at all.

 

Agreed, but it'll still be a win/win deal precisely because it will be a team friendly deal that the player is happy to sign due to timing. And there's the rub because right now Burfict should be highly motivated to accept a deal that pays him slightly less than absolute top dollar in exchange for the ability to cash in now.

[T-Dub]

But the difference is the Bengals almost always pay their guys through their contracts, so there is no funny money, and that has to mean something value-wise to the player also.

 

I wonder how much disconnect exists between players & agents over this; I don't know how the agent's percentage is calculated but I'd guess that it doesn't matter much to them.  Plus, all ESPN will say is that their client signed a $500 million contract, even if they're unlikely to ever see half of that.

[coup000]

 

Agreed, but it'll still be a win/win deal precisely because it will be a team friendly deal that the player is happy to sign due to timing. And there's the rub because right now Burfict should be highly motivated to accept a deal that pays him slightly less than absolute top dollar in exchange for the ability to cash in now.

I think most players on the Bengals believe that they would make more money on their second deals if they had been drafted by a different team. So while the deals they sign are obviously satisfactory to them, I'm not sure they are truly happy with them in that moment. In retrospect, many of them probably realize that it was in their best interest later in their careers however. I think most young players would rather bet on themselves and sign those massively backloaded deals, resulting in those amounts getting paid or getting cut and getting a new signing bonus.

 

I wonder how much disconnect exists between players & agents over this; I don't know how the agent's percentage is calculated but I'd guess that it doesn't matter much to them.  Plus, all ESPN will say is that their client signed a $500 million contract, even if they're unlikely to ever see half of that.

Agents are paid their contractual % of cash received by the player, so total contract value doesn't impact their fee at all if the amounts are never paid.

[sparky151]

 

I wonder how much disconnect exists between players & agents over this; I don't know how the agent's percentage is calculated but I'd guess that it doesn't matter much to them.  Plus, all ESPN will say is that their client signed a $500 million contract, even if they're unlikely to ever see half of that.

 

Agents typically get 3% of an NFL contract. When a player changes agent, his old agent still gets some of the money. Agents get a bigger % of money from marketing and endorsements. 

[|SF2|]

 

Agents typically get 3% of an NFL contract. When a player changes agent, his old agent still gets some of the money. Agents get a bigger % of money from marketing and endorsements. 

And that is why players and their agents want to play in large markets.  The ability to secure lucrative endorsement deals is far higher even if they are local deals.

[|Harley|]

Burfict is worth as much to the Bengals as Willis and Bowman are to their team. He is worth 10mil.

 

Having said that, I would be thrilled to get him signed for anything between 5 to 8mil a year for 5 years. I think he would be willing to take less per year for a fat signing bonus since he's been under paid thus far. Any contract should have behavior clauses so he doesn't go off the deep end with this new found wealth.

 

Lock him down now.

[happyrid]

Burfict is worth as much to the Bengals as Willis and Bowman are to their team. He is worth 10mil.

 

Having said that, I would be thrilled to get him signed for anything between 5 to 8mil a year for 5 years. I think he would be willing to take less per year for a fat signing bonus since he's been under paid thus far. Any contract should have behavior clauses so he doesn't go off the deep end with this new found wealth.

 

Lock him down now.

 

coup has already kind of touched on this, but they probably will give him his $10M a year for the years he would be an unrestricted FA (2016 and beyond). But the Bengals pretty much already have him locked up for 2 years, $4M. If they add 3 years, 30M on after that, you end up with about 5 years, $34M total. Maybe they sweeten it a little to 5 years, $35M total. $7M a year.

 

They can structure it however they want, but the fact that we already have him cheap for 2 years will bring down the total contract to make it look more reasonable even if he does basically get his $10M a year for those future years.

 

I think some of the people saying "make him wait" don't really understand that it doesn't matter that much. If the Bengals force him to play out the next 2 years for cheap and then hit FA and say he then is able to command 3 years, $33M ($11M a year in FA) and the Bengals then sign him. Sure they got 2 cheap years, but over 5 years they end up paying $37M instead of $34 by signing him now.

 

The "cheap years" end up being built into any extension anyway, so you aren't just giving the player a bunch of free money by signing him to an extension early. In fact, you are just exchanging some security for the player for a discount on the future years. The player loses out a little bit of long term earnings potential to get some security and upfront cash. The team takes some risk onto itself in exchange for potential future bargains.

[turningpoint]

5 years 38 million with 23 million guaranteed. 

[happyrid]

5 years 38 million with 23 million guaranteed.

I hope the Bengals can get a bit longer deal like with Dunlap and Atkins. A 5 year would technically be a 4 year extension since he is just a RFA next offseason, but in reality would be more like a 3 year extension since we have him the next 2 years. If they are going to give him over $10M a year for his UFA years, they should be able to buy up 4 or 5 of them and lock him up for 6 or 7 years total.

My guess would be 6 years, $45 M.

[coup000]

 

coup has already kind of touched on this, but they probably will give him his $10M a year for the years he would be an unrestricted FA (2016 and beyond). But the Bengals pretty much already have him locked up for 2 years, $4M. If they add 3 years, 30M on after that, you end up with about 5 years, $34M total. Maybe they sweeten it a little to 5 years, $35M total. $7M a year.

 

They can structure it however they want, but the fact that we already have him cheap for 2 years will bring down the total contract to make it look more reasonable even if he does basically get his $10M a year for those future years.

 

I think some of the people saying "make him wait" don't really understand that it doesn't matter that much. If the Bengals force him to play out the next 2 years for cheap and then hit FA and say he then is able to command 3 years, $33M ($11M a year in FA) and the Bengals then sign him. Sure they got 2 cheap years, but over 5 years they end up paying $37M instead of $34 by signing him now.

 

The "cheap years" end up being built into any extension anyway, so you aren't just giving the player a bunch of free money by signing him to an extension early. In fact, you are just exchanging some security for the player for a discount on the future years. The player loses out a little bit of long term earnings potential to get some security and upfront cash. The team takes some risk onto itself in exchange for potential future bargains.

My thought process for the 5 year 25M prediction was assuming the Bengals point to the franchise tag for that 3rd year. They would indicate to the agent that they have 3 years of control for around $10M, you add 2 more years at 10 each onto that and discount 5M off that total because they are going to be paying out the big cash now as opposed to later. 5 years 25M.

[happyrid]

My thought process for the 5 year 25M prediction was assuming the Bengals point to the franchise tag for that 3rd year. They would indicate to the agent that they have 3 years of control for around $10M, you add 2 more years at 10 each onto that and discount 5M off that total because they are going to be paying out the big cash now as opposed to later. 5 years 25M.

 

It's possible, though that seems a bit low. Also, any decent agent is going to know everything that does and does not give him leverage. In this case, the agent should know that AJ Green will also be hitting FA after 2015. So there is no guarantee that the Bengals would even be able to use the franchise tag on Burfict. So I think the starting point is more along the lines of 2 years, $4M (though even that is not 100% guaranteed if some team gets really aggressive in RFA). Then add the $10M a year type seasons on after that. Let's say you add 4 seasons at $10M each to the end. That gives you 6 years, $44M total. Maybe a slight discount to the Bengals gets you to 6 and $42. 

 

Something along those lines would be my guess. Depending on length of deal, it should end up being in the $6-8M a year range overall. 

 

My general point though is that doing the extension now and bumping Burfict's current salary isn't "free money" to Burfict that the Bengals are just giving away for no reason. It is going to directly buy them at least that much money worth of savings in the future. Plus, it rewards a key contributor both making him happy and showing the rest of the locker room (including undrafted guys like Lamur, DiManche, Robinson, etc.) that working hard can lead to huge money.