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Sink or Swim: RGIII, Bradford, Cutler, Dalton


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You know what Jamie?

 

You have absolutely no clue about my ability to be "intellectually honest", in the same vein, you don't have the ability to see past your own perceptions do you?

 

You see, I have the ability to state the truth (Palmer IS a quitter) and admit that he did have 1 really good season, and I have not tried to revise history... I just refuse to look at the past while blinded by orange colored glasses. Even the "talking heads" who were mentioning him in the same breath as Brady and Manning during that season were WAY premature, and anyone with half a brain could see that and admit that.

 

One season does NOT put you in the same league (or breath) as HOF caliber QB's.

 

I was AT the playoff game and was sure that we were going to win until quitter went down, I thought that quitter had the "IT" factor until after he was Kimo'd.

Then, after some average seasons, the quitter quit. There it is, the total truth... unbiased, black & white, and in the open.

 

You see Jamie I have the "intellectual honesty" to tell the truth, be realistic, and base my opinion on what actually transpired during the one good season and the average seasons that followed. I've also lived long enough to know that once a quitter, always a quitter.

 

So you can shove your "intellectual honesty" up your keester meester.

 

Well said.  It amazes me how we have to have instantaneous gratification, that we have to make decisions based solely on the current moment.  Last week, all of the "NBA Experts" were saying how great the Spurs were, and how they were just the greatest team left playing in the tournament, and last night, those same "Experts" were espousing opinions on how the Spurs just were at such a disadvantage against the Thunder.  24/7 media and opinion leads to all of the problems we see with people latching on to an opinion, and maintaining it regardless of the obvious flaws in their argument. 

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Someone is still butthurt

If you think I'm butthurt from our last exchange, where you got caught out by everyone on the site twice and I left you bleeding and gaping on the floor, your level of self-delusion is even bigger than I thought.  And that's saying something.

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By all means show me were I said anything about multiple seasons. ;)

 

In fact you were pretty extatic for his return post injury along with the rest of us....

 

 

 

 

I would also suggest that sadly he was never the same after that knee injury, even if this pre-seaon packers game looked pretty good, I think we all can admit that.

 

So him leaving actually worked out better for us because post knee injury he doesnt look like a guy that can win the big one.

 

Which is entirely the same conversation we are having about Dalton but for different reasons. IE: Can he win the big one.

 

So be mad at him all you want, I frankly dont care. I, unlike you apparently, have moved on from Carson, and would rather have conversations about guys that are currently on this team.

It has nothing to do with being mad at him or not moving on, it's calling him what he is... a quitter. I never said that you referred to "multiple seasons" ... I referred to them. Why do you always find it necessary to try and start an argument on something isn't germane to the conversation at hand?

 

As for Dalton, when you have a QB who can at least get you to the stage where the TEAM has the chance to "win the big one", is it smart to take a chance on losing him and starting back at square one?

 

Enough for me, my charity work quota has been met for the year. Have a good day!

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Well said.  It amazes me how we have to have instantaneous gratification, that we have to make decisions based solely on the current moment.  Last week, all of the "NBA Experts" were saying how great the Spurs were, and how they were just the greatest team left playing in the tournament, and last night, those same "Experts" were espousing opinions on how the Spurs just were at such a disadvantage against the Thunder.  24/7 media and opinion leads to all of the problems we see with people latching on to an opinion, and maintaining it regardless of the obvious flaws in their argument. 

 

If you think for yourself, they're absurd. 

 

If you're a follower, they're your instructors.

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Truth. Turn back the clock and the battles between this board and trashnation and there was no shortage of Carson Palmer elite QB talk.

However, I don't think it's a shame. Carson Palmer could be the QB of this team right now. That was his choice not to buy into this organizatin. He robbed himself of a legacy building moment.

Whether he'd been seen as elite or not would be a question but his individual career direction would have been much better than spending it with the Raiders and now with a loaded NFC West.

 

I meant it's a shame because of what happened to Palmer.....knee injury vs NE, knee injury vs Pitt, elbow injury vs Tenn.  He was on track to become something special until those things happened....particularly the ACL/MCL/PCL/knee cap obliteration of his knee by the hands of one Kimo Von Oehlhoffen. 

 

 

Pro Bowl MVP?

 

That wouldn't get you enough to buy a cup of crack addict piss...

 

Actually, I think it pays like 50k and you get a new car for being ProBowl MVP.  That's a whole lotta crack addict piss you can buy.  You can probably have enough left over for a turd too if you'd like.  And no, by turd I don't mean Andy Dalton.  :lol:

 

That's actually my point Khat... he was talked about being in that echelon for 1 season, and that 1 season only. If you want to go by stats, Andy Dalton matches up pretty damn well for regular season stats with some legendary QB's... which is why stats can be meaningful, but AREN'T the be all and end all that some want to make them out to be.

As others have alluded to, Palmer also had TJ and Chad when they were performing at their best. Andy has only had AJ... I sincerely think this is a make or break season for Dalton, because with the talent that the majority seem to think that we have on this roster, there is no reason for this team to NOT go deep into the playoffs even if Andy is ONLY a middling QB.

See Trent Dilfer...

 

We only talked about him for that 1 season in that company because his knee got completely shredded during the playoffs of that very season.  If he had not gotten injured, I think we win that playoff game and maybe much more.  The offense was unbeleivable....throwing up 38 pts at Pitt to essentially clinch the division.  Palmer was a fantastic QB in 2005.  I think that sort of talk would have continued. 

 

Palmer did have some very nice pieces around him as well, the OLine was top notch and Chad, TJ and Henry were a great WR corps even if Chad freelanced often.  

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It has nothing to do with being mad at him or not moving on, it's calling him what he is... a quitter. I never said that you referred to "multiple seasons" ... I referred to them. Why do you always find it necessary to try and start an argument on something isn't germane to the conversation at hand?

 

Dodge and weave. Point elsewhere so maybe you won't scrutinize his flaws. It's his MO, and now well established technique.  What's sad is that he thinks it works, and when you give up arguing with him after you've reduced him to rubble, he returns to the scene of his ass-raping with self-congratulations.  

 

But let's break this down to it's most basic, to what's really going on here.

 

Jamie_B has been exposed... as a Palmer Defender.

 

And that's not something anyone should be trumpeting, much less take pride in.

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By all means show me were I said anything about multiple seasons. ;)
 
In fact you were pretty extatic for his return post injury along with the rest of us....
 
 
 
 
I would also suggest that sadly he was never the same after that knee injury, even if this pre-seaon packers game looked pretty good, I think we all can admit that.
 
So him leaving actually worked out better for us because post knee injury he doesnt look like a guy that can win the big one.
 
Which is entirely the same conversation we are having about Dalton but for different reasons. IE: Can he win the big one.
 
So be mad at him all you want, I frankly dont care. I, unlike you apparently, have moved on from Carson, and would rather have conversations about guys that are currently on this team.


Didn't he win the pro bowl MVP after the injury?
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I meant it's a shame because of what happened to Palmer.....knee injury vs NE, knee injury vs Pitt, elbow injury vs Tenn.  He was on track to become something special until those things happened....particularly the ACL/MCL/PCL/knee cap obliteration of his knee by the hands of one Kimo Von Oehlhoffen. 

 

 

Actually, I think it pays like 50k and you get a new car for being ProBowl MVP.  That's a whole lotta crack addict piss you can buy.  You can probably have enough left over for a turd too if you'd like.  And no, by turd I don't mean Andy Dalton.  :lol:

 

 

We only talked about him for that 1 season in that company because his knee got completely shredded during the playoffs of that very season.  If he had not gotten injured, I think we win that playoff game and maybe much more.  The offense was unbeleivable....throwing up 38 pts at Pitt to essentially clinch the division.  Palmer was a fantastic QB in 2005.  I think that sort of talk would have continued. 

 

Palmer did have some very nice pieces around him as well, the OLine was top notch and Chad, TJ and Henry were a great WR corps even if Chad freelanced often.  

Yeah... the "what if's" if quitter hadn't gotten Kimo'd are too painful to think about. That was a bad ass offense.

If you're in to crack addict piss and turds... then that WOULD buy you a lot I suppose... LOL!

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If you think I'm butthurt from our last exchange, where got caught out but everyone on the site twice and I left you bleeding and gaping on the floor, your level of self-delusion is even bigger than I thought.  And that's saying something.

 

 

Is that what you did huh?

 

:lol:

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just have to laugh about how people are STILL bitter how many years later

 

good lord move on

 

Oh, we did, completely. And for most of us, nothing made that easier than replacing the proven quitter Carson Palmer with the proven winner Andy Dalton.

 

But aside from the incredible damage Carson tried to inflict on the team, the point you seem to miss is that we aren't holding your ability to forgive and forget with CP against you.  We're holding your open support for a proven spineless quitter against you.  There's a big difference, which most people but yourself can see.

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Oh, we did, completely. And for most of us, nothing made that easier than replacing the proven quitter Carson Palmer with the proven winner Andy Dalton.

 

But aside from the incredible damage Carson tried to inflict on the team, the point you seem to miss is that we aren't holding your ability to forgive and forget with CP against you.  We're holding your open support for a proven spineless quitter against you.  There's a big difference, which most people but yourself can see.

 

 

Open support?

 

I think you mistake my open indifference for support. I simply was discussing Carson as it relates to that year. But then it wouldnt be the first time you mistook something I've said and ran with it.

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Yeah Alley is going looney again, ignore him.

USN referenced the Carson contract and questioned people's feelings at the time. There was a point that alot of Bengals fans thought he was elite around that contract signing. Dalton via his current day track record hasn't been received at that level. What happened to Palmer after the contract or who is showing open support or who didn't doesn't matter.
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A serious question for all the people who are against Dalton getting extended...

 

Were you in favor of the Quitters extension when he received it?

 

Great numbers in the season, but never won a playoff game or made playoffs in consecutive years... I seem to remember most people were ecstatic with it.

 

Carson had those dreamy blond locks and wasn't a soulless ginger.

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Then you dont remember that Baltimore game.

 

Andy has never done anything remotely like that.

 

Actually he did.  He brought us back for a win against an undefeated Buffalo team that had thumped New England already.

 

He also came within a last second sack of beating Baltimore in Baltimore with AJ Green out of the lineup.

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Actually he did.  He brought us back for a win against an undefeated Buffalo team that had thumped New England already.

 

He also came within a last second sack of beating Baltimore in Baltimore with AJ Green out of the lineup.

 

 

:lol: Undefeated Buffalo who ended up sucking the rest of the season.

 

The legend of Andy Dalton destroyed Buffalo's season

 

:fistpump:

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The mere fact that you've referenced him as quitter not once but twice means you have an inability to be intellectually honest about this.

 

Even if only for a year, the year he got injured, he was mentioned in the same breath as Manning and Brady and not just by us Bengal fans, to say otherwise is revisionist history. 

 

Every single one of us believed had he not got injured in that playoff game that it would have been us rather than the Steelers in the superbowl. I'd venture to say your on that list too.

 

This is clouding the issue.  He was mentioned in that breath because of his physical skill set.  Matt Stafford is mentioned in those breaths as well because of his physical skill set.

 

The real question is did that skill set get us to where we wanted to be?  One time it came close, but every other time it failed.  I'll take Andy Dalton and 3 consecutive playoff berths over Matt Stafford and 10 million yards while going 2-28 against winning teams.

 

Skill set and scouting reports are still clouding the issue.  Someone quoted the guy I have on ignore and he had the fucking gall to say Carson could win games by himself?  What fucking games did he take the team on his back and win?  I seem to remember him having an atrocious time throughout his career when the pocket wasn't pretty.  When routes were a yard off there were a lot of INTs, and when things mattered against our rivals he seemed to have a knack for finding Polamalu wide open in the flat.  His last pass for us was a throw away on 4th down.  4th fucking down.

 

ANDY DALTON is consistently more successful in the regular season than Carson Palmer throughout his entire career.  You pay QBs with that consistancy, get it done.

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What happened to Palmer after the contract or who is showing open support or who didn't doesn't matter.

 

Sure it does. Because if you're stupid enough to continue to pine after that quitter bitch, then every other thought you have in your head is suspect, and must be discounted.

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This is clouding the issue.  He was mentioned in that breath because of his physical skill set.  Matt Stafford is mentioned in those breaths as well because of his physical skill set.

 

The real question is did that skill set get us to where we wanted to be?  One time it came close, but every other time it failed.  I'll take Andy Dalton and 3 consecutive playoff berths over Matt Stafford and 10 million yards while going 2-28 against winning teams.

 

Skill set and scouting reports are still clouding the issue.  Someone quoted the guy I have on ignore and he had the fucking gall to say Carson could win games by himself?  What fucking games did he take the team on his back and win?  I seem to remember him having an atrocious time throughout his career when the pocket wasn't pretty.  When routes were a yard off there were a lot of INTs, and when things mattered against our rivals he seemed to have a knack for finding Polamalu wide open in the flat.  His last pass for us was a throw away on 4th down.  4th fucking down.

 

ANDY DALTON is consistently more successful in the regular season than Carson Palmer throughout his entire career.  You pay QBs with that consistancy, get it done.

 

He's probably more successful in the post season than Carson as well.


 

 

:lol: Undefeated Buffalo who ended up sucking the rest of the season.

 

The legend of Andy Dalton destroyed Buffalo's season

 

:fistpump:

 

I'm glad you are accepting my point and admit your error.

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Carson had those dreamy blond locks and wasn't a soulless ginger.

It's funny, but it's also sad, because it's true.  If only these Dalton haters could get more in touch with their repressed sides, and not have to scapegoat their suffering, this whole site would be a happier place and we could all get along. #loveyourhomo

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I think Andy had the disadvantage of being thrown into the mix with a new offense and young players. I think he benefitted from having a consistently top 10 D.

I think Palmer walked right into an offense ready to produce big numbers with a defense that could only stop teams via the turnover.

At the end of the day, Carson helped this franchise with the retirement talk getting them out of that contract as his ability to QB was drastically changed from when he signed it. Then he robbed himself of an opportunity to reclaim the stature of "elite" by not believing in the organization.

The lesson to be learned is that true franchise QBs have raised the financial bar in both terms of stated amounts and gaurantees. If you play market game and get a QB that is less you are forcing the rest of the roster to work magic on the cheap. Unfortunately there's nothing in Dalton's resume (to date) that states elite regardless if Palmer's big burst on the scene was real or not.
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Sure it does. Because if you're stupid enough to continue to pine after that quitter bitch, then every other thought you have in your head is suspect, and must be discounted.


Then the opposite is true. You promote Dalton because you have increased Halo effect for him resulting from your continued distaste for the way Palmer left.
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At the end of the day, Carson helped this franchise with the retirement talk getting them out of that contract as his ability to QB was drastically changed from when he signed it.

 

Yeah, that Carson Palmer really helped us!  Nothing was more helpful than announcing he'd rather quit the game than honor his 100MM contract with us -- just before the draft where were forced to call his bluff and take a QB, when we should have had the luxury of building other areas of our team.  Carson, the Benevolent, we should call him.

 

LMAO, and THIS is coming from the guy who regularly accuses everyone else on here of revisionist history.

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