-GoBengals- Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton has been criticized often during his career about his ability to throw the deep ball. It's something he doesn't do too often. Of the 1,510 passes he's thrown in the regular season and playoffs to this point, 23.4 percent of them have traveled 15 yards or more in the air. The rest have all been short- or intermediate-range passes that have been thrown on screens, slants, quick outs and the like. Even if Dalton isn't going deep all the time, he's going deep often enough to catch both the casual and die-hard fan's attention. Wednesday's Bengals factoid has to do with Dalton's deep-ball completion percentage. Dalton Here's the number of the day: 20.2 No, that's not his completion percentage on passes that travel 15 yards or more in the air. It would really be problematic if it was. That number, 20.2, is actually the difference between the completion percentage on Dalton's deep passes and his shorter ones. On balls that travel zero to 14 yards in the air, Dalton has a 61.4 completion percentage. On passes that go 15 yards or further, that percentage dips to 41.2. It's not surprising the number falls the deeper the pass goes. After all, it's more difficult to accurately deliver a strike to a moving target that has sizable defenders on top of it the further it gets from the quarterback. There's no math required for that truism. It's just football common sense. Still, the drop-off between the two completion percentages seems quite stark. The key word there is "seems." Take a quick look at most other current quarterbacks and you'll see similar drop-offs between their shorter-range passes and their longer ones. In the last three years (playoffs included),Peyton Manning has a completion rating differential of 21.4 percent. Tom Brady's drop-off on deep passes was 25.1 percent. Joe Flacco's was 27.6 percent. So maybe the heat Dalton takes when he goes deep ought to be extended to other quarterbacks, too. Maybe. But then we see that not everyone has had such significant changes between their deep passes and shorter ones. Colin Kaepernick, the owner of a 62.2 completion rating on shorter passes, only has a completion rating differential of 14.9 the last three seasons. Alex Smith's difference in deep passes and shorter ones the last three seasons was just 12.4 percent. Dalton's deep passing numbers draw criticism because it seems that when he misses deep, he often misses wildly. He overthrew receiver A.J. Green regularly last season and threw his share of interceptions to wide-open defenders who weren't draped on any of his passing targets. Of Dalton's 354 career passes of 15 yards or more, 21 have been intercepted. By comparison, Brady had 16 interceptions on deep balls the last three years and Flacco had 29. Of the aforementioned quarterbacks they're the best comparisons to use since the others missed all or parts of the last three seasons due to injuries. By the way, 31 of Dalton's other 1,162 shorter passes were intercepted between 2011-13. The reason we even raise Dalton's deep-passing completion rating is because the quarterback has resigned himself this summer to improving his deep-passing mechanics. He spent part of the offseason training with Tom House, a former Major League Baseball pitcher turned quarterbacks throwing coach who has worked with the likes of Drew Brees, Carson Palmer and Brady. Dalton told me earlier this offseason that one of the biggest mechanical tweaks House made with him was a simple one. Instead of reaching out wide with his non-throwing arm like quarterbacks tend to do when they're gearing up to go long, House had him keep his front shoulder and elbow tucked more into his body, a lot like how a major-league pitcher delivering a 90 mph fastball. They found that by doing that, Dalton could keep his body more under control. By staying closed, he greatly minimizes the chance that his front side flies open, causing the ball to go sailing when it leaves his right hand ... as it has done in the past. We'll see later this fall if that pointer and others will help. http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/8263/bengals-andy-dalton-completion-percentage-rating-factoid?ex_cid=espnapi_public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 You might as well just stop getting so worked up over Dalton. He's going to be the qb here for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 You might as well just stop getting so worked up over Dalton. He's going to be the qb here for a long time. I'm not sure if he actually read it: In the last three years (playoffs included),Peyton Manning has a completion rating differential of 21.4 percent. Tom Brady's drop-off on deep passes was 25.1 percent. Joe Flacco's was 27.6 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 You might as well just stop getting so worked up over Dalton. He's going to be the qb here for a long time. Inserts 44 magnum between lips... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Inserts 44 magnum between lips... ;) You'd do a much better job with a shotgun, 12 gauge preferably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Interesting read. I have a hard time drawing too much from Kaepernick's numbers. He's such a different type of QB. He's still a one read and run QB, and his 'forcing the ball' is more likely done with his legs than his arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Interesting read. I have a hard time drawing too much from Kaepernick's numbers. He's such a different type of QB. He's still a one read and run QB, and his 'forcing the ball' is more likely done with his legs than his arm. NFL Philosophy @NFLosophy · 4m Kap needs a guy who gets open quickly off the line so he doesn't have to make his 2nd read. That's why Kap struggled a little w/o Crabtree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Lol @ 15 and counting Dalton threads. Bordering on the absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Kaep's ability to run may also factor in to his completion percentage being better if DBs are looking in the backfield on broken plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Lol @ 15 and counting Dalton threads. Bordering on the absurd. Bordering on? I'd say we've long since dug a tunnel into and established a lucrative smuggling business in Absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Still amused that the owner trolls his own site. It's...weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 ^^^^ Some of the DD's take it so personal and get so mad that it makes it fun to bust their balls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Lol @ 15 and counting Dalton threads. Bordering on the absurd. That sentence is absurd.. We passed that a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Look at Dds get so mad, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I get as ballistic over the Dalton trolling by both sides as the next guy, but this is not the case here. Go dug up and posted a bunch of interesting articles yesterday, and shouldn't get pasted because one of them is about Dalton. We're never going to move to a better place on this board if people are going to continue to be nasty at the first opportunity instead of the last resort... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zins30 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I get as ballistic over the Dalton trolling by both sides as the next guy, but this is not the case here. Go dug up and posted a bunch of interesting articles yesterday, and shouldn't get pasted because one of them is about Dalton. We're never going to move to a better place on this board if people are going to continue to be nasty at the first opportunity instead of as a last resort... There's a thread devoted to these "Factoids" by Coley Harvey though. There's really not a need for a new thread for one of them. And FWIW, this specific factoid supports Dalton, so I'm not sure why people seem to think all the "DD's" are mad about it. I think it's simply that there's yet another thread about Dalton, not the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I get as ballistic over the Dalton trolling by both sides as the next guy, but this is not the case here. Go dug up and posted a bunch of interesting articles yesterday, and shouldn't get pasted because one of them is about Dalton.We're never going to move to a better place on this board if people are going to continue to be nasty at the first opportunity instead of the last resort... Couldn't agree more.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I get as ballistic over the Dalton trolling by both sides as the next guy, but this is not the case here. Go dug up and posted a bunch of interesting articles yesterday, and shouldn't get pasted because one of them is about Dalton. We're never going to move to a better place on this board if people are going to continue to be nasty at the first opportunity instead of the last resort... There's already a thread for the factoids stuff. Separating this was his way of trying to flame some more - at least, given his behavior on his own board for three years now - a logical presumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Not everyone reads every single thread on this board. Acting like he didn't follow some unstated protocol so he is automatically a troll is pretty lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Treehorn Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Look at Dds get so mad, lol. The fuck are DDs? We talking about tits now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I read the above article and to be honest, it didn't seem like bad news at all. In the last 3 years Dalton had 21 long balls intercepted, Brady, a 14 year HOF player had 16 and Flacco, a 6 year veteran had 29. Soooo what is wrong with a 3 year guy being a bit worse than a future HOFer and better than a guy many consider a franchise QB? Also, his drop off percentage was BETTER than run of the mill QBs like Brady, Manning and Flacco. Isn't that a good thing? Kapernick doesn't throw nearly as many long balls so I would expect his drop off percentage to be lower since safties tend to creep up into the box trying to stop Gore and Vernon Davis. A bit easier to throw a long ball without safety support. Really, if anything, the article above would make me think that a guy with only 3 NFL seasons under his belt is doing pretty damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 There's already a thread for the factoids stuff. Separating this was his way of trying to flame some more - at least, given his behavior on his own board for three years now - a logical presumption. I'm quoting you only because you are the last person to mention this, not because I'm trying to single you out. I also don't know that anything other than the first point applies to you. I have a lousy memory for tracking who says what, when. 1. I had no idea there was a single thread devoted to these things, which means it's entirely possibly Go didn't either. With the hit or miss infrequency of his posting, that's entirely plausible. 2. Even had I known that, I would have posted each article in it's own thread anyway. This stacking twenty articles into a single thread thing drives me crazy. I never want to sift through thirty pages of a single thread that probably bounced out into the tangent-o-sphere on page two... Outside of a post game recap thread, I think that practice muddies things way more than it tidies them 3. Even if it was a passive trolling maneuver, let him. People need to stop going nuclear every time they perceive someone looked at them funny. Aside from the fact it's overkill for the sake of overkill, it may not even be true... This site used to have very forgiving, but fair moderation. People would be encouraged to post with adult language, but asked to understand to respect each other. They'd get warned when they crossed the line, and a short 'timeout' when they refused to behave better. For whatever reason, that moderation doesn't happen anymore. It doesn't mean people can't take a deep breath and moderate themselves. Ignore the perceived trolling. Stop looking for sleights. Try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Be the bigger man. Whatever. Being a dick because we assume the other guy is being a dick is a shitty message board policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Mongo...the Dalton stuff is killing this site. Killing it. Dropping a new thread to re-focus and re-flame the stuff that's killing this site is shitty, in my opinion. There are already too many Dalton threads, but, hey, here's another. And I don't understand why the owner and his mods are the ones involved in the continued trolling and behavior that fucks up the site. Like I said, it's...weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengals7833 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I agree the Dalton argument is killing this site and it's both sides of the argument. I don't understand how people on here continue to argue the same shit day in and day out. I myself am not a huge Dalton fan. The only thingvl that will change my opinion of him is his play. Not countless arguments on this page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Not everyone reads every single thread on this board. Acting like he didn't follow some unstated protocol so he is automatically a troll is pretty lame. This. As evident when I posted the Still news about his daughter without seeing the other thread. DD'ers are so damned sensitive. The fuck are DDs? We talking about tits now? Boobs :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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