Beaker Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jul 27 2005, 01:27 AM'][i][b]we gave them blankets with the small pox on it..... Also this they would have died Argument is bullshit.... ManyNatives in S America survived... because they were not encroached upon and annialated.... As for the Advanced pushing others aside... you will find that Argument in Mein Kampf And I don't like it there either[/b][/i][/quote] The Incas and the Mayas in S America lost huge numbers due to the Spanish bringing disease...and they were encroached upon and annihilated...they certainly did not fair much better than the natives in N America. And my point wasnt about the MORALITY of the more powerful beings pushing aside the less powerful (as it was in Mein Kampf). My point was that the human animal does the same thing as every other animal. [quote][i][b]Not true the Portugese and Spanish were the main Slave traders.... And they died on the passage because as rations wore out they were thrown over board tied together, and the Traders knew that the best way to weed out the week ones was to let them die off to get the best profit from southern plantation owners[/b][/i][/quote] You made the point that AMERICA killed 30 million slaves on the passage. I said America was ONE of the countries that provided a market, but was not the only country responsible for all those deaths. Yes, indirectly they were part of the reason for slaves dying...but were not solely and directly responsible for 30 million as you made it sound. [quote][i][b]Um.... The US dropped the Bombs on Japan AFTER hitler killed himself and Germany surrendered.... And we are the only nation to drop them on a city.... not to mention we choose a city like Hiroshima that was all civilian and not damaged to show the power of the bomb.[/b][/i][/quote] It was a known fact that Germany was working on the atomic bomb at the same time we were. If they would have gotten it first, you can be sure they would have used it in trying to swing the tide of war back in their favor. But we overran them before it came to fruition. But there was still another enemy present. Since America now had the technology, they used it to prevent having to invade the Japanese Home Islands. From the costs of taking back the smaller islands on the way, you can be sure that would have been a long and bloody event. Again, this is not a statement that it was moral...just a refute to the tone of the way you presented it. [quote][i][b]Ok so you are admitting that America used similar tactics to Nazi Germany ... now we are getting somewhere[/b][/i][/quote] Nobody's tactics in war are better or worse than the other's from a moral standpoint (in the sense of conventional warfare, I consider the concentration camps a separate action deployed under the cover of the war). The Axis were the aggressors. [quote]I am not attempting to be fair and balanced... I am presenting my side of how I see things... likewise others are free to share thier perceptions as well. I am not trying to scream the loudest.... I am providing my opinion on situations. [/b][/i] [right][post="119860"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I know you want to be "hard hitting" and raise people's ire. But that only causes knee jerk reaction based on emotion. If you truly wanted people to CONSIDER your points rather than simply REACT to them, you would temper them and present them more intelligently. In other words, are you truly interested in changing the world, or just lashing out in frustration like so many others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [color="blue"][i][b]Hey Whataya Know... Some NeoCon radio host wants to bring back the small pox blankets [/b][/i][/color] [u]Veteran Radio Host Paul Harvey Triumphs Smallpox Blankets To Native Americans, Black Slavery Advocates Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing, Biological Warfare To Fight War On Terror July 5 2005[/u] 83-year-old veteran talk show host Paul Harvey, whose show is syndicated by ABC to over 1,000 radio stations, has reached further into the abyss of zealotry and extremism by suggesting America should be less moral than its enemies in the war on terror and resort to carnal genocide in order to succeed. In comments broadcast to over 18 million listeners, Harvey stated the following. [i]After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Winston Churchill said that the American people…he said, the American people, he said, and this is a direct quote, “We didn’t come this far because we are made of sugar candy.†That was his response to the attack on Pearl Harbor. That we didn’t come this far because we are made of sugar candy. And that reminder was taken seriously. And we proceeded to develop and deliver the bomb, even though roughly 150,000 men, women and children perished in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. With a single blow, World War II was over. Following New York, Sept. 11, Winston Churchill was not here to remind us that we didn’t come this far because we’re made of sugar candy. So, following the New York disaster, we mustered our humanity. We gave old pals a pass, even though men and money from Saudi Arabia were largely responsible for the devastation of New York and Pennsylvania and our Pentagon. We called Saudi Arabians our partners against terrorism and we sent men with rifles into Afghanistan and Iraq, and we kept our best weapons in our silos. Even now we’re standing there dying, daring to do nothing decisive, because we’ve declared ourselves to be better than our terrorist enemies -- more moral, more civilized. Our image is at stake, we insist. But we didn’t come this far because we’re made of sugar candy. Once upon a time, we elbowed our way onto and into this continent by giving small pox infected blankets to native Americans. Yes, that was biological warfare! And we used every other weapon we could get our hands on to grab this land from whomever. And we grew prosperous. And, yes, we greased the skids with the sweat of slaves. And so it goes with most nation states, which, feeling guilty about their savage pasts, eventually civilize themselves out of business and wind up invaded, and ultimately dominated by the lean, hungry and up and coming who are not made of sugar candy.[/i] The disgusting bigotry and Nazi-like nature of these comments are the furthest yet that any Neo-Con has gone in attempting to justify harsher prosecution of the war on terror. The scale of this sickness dwarfs even previous comments by Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh. Rush Limbaugh suggested that the Abu Ghraib prison guards were "just having fun" and "blowing off some steam." The official official US Army report into Abu Ghraib lists the activities that Limbaugh defines as harmless fun. They include; - Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees. - Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light. - Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture. - Raping children. - A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee (rape) - Beating detainees to death. All of the above are great ways to relax according to Rush Limbaugh. Raping children and beating people to death is "harmless fraternity fun." Limbaugh then equalled his depravity last month when he released a line of merchandise that depicted the Guantanamo Bay detention camp in Cuba as a holiday home. Harvey has gone even further, advocating what amounts to mass genocide and ethnic cleansing. Does giving smallpox infected blankets to native Americans epitomise President Bush's vision of spreading freedom and democracy around the world? In the 18th century, the British fought France and its Indian allies for possession of what was to become Canada during the French and Indian Wars (1754-63). At the time of the Pontiac rebellion in 1763, Sir Jeffrey Amherst, the Commander-in-Chief of the British forces in North America, wrote to Colonel Henry Bouquet: 'Could it not be contrived to send smallpox among these disaffected tribes of Indians? We must use every stratagem in our power to reduce them.' The colonel replied: 'I will try to inoculate the [Native American tribe] with some blankets that may fall in their hands, and take care not to get the disease myself.' Smallpox decimated the Native Americans, who had never been exposed to the disease before and had no immunity. Harvey is seen by many as the conscience of America, having been on the radio since 1933. To have an individual of that gravitas openly advocate black slavery and genocide as a necessary tool tells us one of two things. Either Mr. Harvey has gone completely senile in his old age or he represents a growing trend of perversion amongst Neo-Conservatives who have gleefully proclaimed themselves to be morally bankrupt and have urged the US government to do the same and apply it to the construction of a decadent empire. And to conservatives reading this article, we are by no means saying that those on the extreme left are any different. During Clinton's tenure, many liberals tried to justify the brutal siege on the Waco Church in 1993. This represents the same mindset, the specific targeting and elimination of minority groups to further a jackboot agenda. The Muslims are just the latest victims of this crusade and they certainly won't be the last. The liberals couldn't ram through the entirety of their police state agenda, so they just put on sheep's clothing and returned as self-proclaimed conservatives and are now attempting to destroy America. One of Paul Harvey's peers, Michael Savage has continually advocated the arrest of anyone who criticizes the government. Last year he called for the arrest of a New York Times journalist for publishing an anti-US photograph under the reasoning that the editor was committing sedition by promoting enemy propaganda. On several occasions, Savage has even gone as far as to call for anti-government dissenters to be put in forced labor camps. The danger of this is all the more immediate when one considers the fact that three years ago FEMA began work on constructing entire mini-cities for purposes of internment. It is common knowledge that this 'bastion of conservatism' was once a liberal hippy. He still advocates the books and philosophy of literary beatniks Jack Kerouac and William Burroughs, whose books included glorification of drug use. Mr. Wiener, like a plethora of other so-called right-wing talk show hosts, is a dangerous anti-American who hates freedom and what the founding fathers created. While he has a first amendment right to voice his comments, we feel the need to challenge them and will continue to monitor his subversive and extremist activities. Paul Harvey is an even greater threat to liberty and he will likewise be scrutinized. The argument that America has to be less moral than its enemies is paving the way for the American government to be less moral to its own people. Harvey's sentiments go against everything America is supposed to stand for. Does the biblical philosophy of treat others as you wish to be treated mean anything to Harvey? Harvey's argument lacks further credibility in light of the fact that the so-called 'terrorists' who would be at the brunt of Harvey's ire are in the vast majority of cases no terrorists at all. Consistent figures have indicated that as high as 90% of Iraqis arrested at checkpoints and hauled away to prison camps have no connection to car bombings. In most cases they don't have their papers in order or are accused of stealing wood. Do these crimes justify the use of biological warfare and nuking entire countries? The LA Times reported that no leaders of Al-Qaeda were identified as being at Guantanamo. That's because the US government ordered all the poor cavemen who were shoved onto the front lines by the Taliban to be arrested, while they safely evacuated 8,000 Al-Qaeda and Taliban cream (by accident of course) from Kunduz in Afghanistan. The justification of dropping nuclear bombs on countries is also a mindless argument. Many Neo-Cons called for 'levelling Fallujah' after American contractors were killed in the city. So next time there are a handful of murders in your city the government should solve the problem by letting loose a few A-Bombs? We demand a public apology and a retraction of Mr. Harvey's comments. Failing this, we extend an invitation for Mr. Harvey to appear on The Alex Jones Show and defend his comments. Contact ABC and Paul Harvey and voice your disgust at the promotion of black slavery and genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mongoloido Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 You're better off seeking information on your own, Beotch. BJ has no interest in presenting information and letting others form their own beliefs. He only wants you to agree with him. Makes for an ardent sports team fan, but a lousy educator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 we're still a great country beotch... don't worry we hear this shit from bj constantly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Dissension can be a good thing. But you need to watch and not cross the line between dissension and disparaging... [quote]dissension Difference of opinion; disagreement.[/quote] ^ | | Good [quote]Disparage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To match unequally; to degrade or dishonor by an unequal marriage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To dishonor by a comparison with what is inferior; to lower in rank or estimation by actions or words; to speak slightingly of; to depreciate; to undervalue.[/quote] ^ | | Bad I think BJ and a few others have crossed that line MONTHS ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Jul 27 2005, 09:33 AM']Dissension can be a good thing. But you need to watch and not cross the line between dissension and disparaging... ^ | | Good ^ | | Bad I think BJ and a few others have crossed that line MONTHS ago... [right][post="120096"][/post][/right][/quote] yeah, i was bored a week ago or so and went back to look at the old posts ... all of bj's posts were completely different... there is a marked difference... i swear something happened to him to change so drastically in the past 6 months.. it sucks too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 bj, i've been doing some reading on the "smallpox blanket" thing and there are sme interesting facts... first of all though, we did do some foolish and regrettable things... but nothing like what you and people like ward churchhill talk about... [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples"]click here[/url] [b][i]One of the most contentious issues relating to disease and depopulation in the Americas concerns the question of whether or not American indigenous peoples were intentionally infected with diseases such as smallpox. There is no evidence that the Spanish attempted to deliberately infect the American natives.8 However, there is one documented incident in which intentional infection was attempted by the British. During Pontiac's Rebellion in 1763, some Native Americans ("Indians") launched a widespread and effective offensive against British soldiers and settlers. Fort Pitt, with a garrison of 330 men (and over 200 women and children inside), was attacked on June 22, 1763, primarily by Delaware (Lenape) Indians. Too strong to be taken by force, the fort was kept under siege. On 24 June 1763, the commander of Fort Pitt gave representatives of the besieging Delawares two blankets that had been exposed to smallpox, in hopes of spreading the disease to the Indians in order to end the siege. Indians in the area contracted smallpox. It is impossible to verify how many people (if any) contracted the disease as a result of the Fort Pitt incident; the disease was already in the area and may have reached the Indians through other vectors. Even before the blankets had been handed over, the disease may have been spread to the Indians by native warriors returning from attacks on infected white settlements.9 Although British General Jeffrey Amherst is usually associated with this incident, by the time he suggested trying to spread the disease to the Indians, officers at Fort Pitt had already made the attempt, apparently on their own initiative. It is certain that these British soldiers attempted to intentionally infect Indians with smallpox; what is uncertain is whether they succeeded.10 A second alleged incident is disputed. The controversial professor Ward Churchill has written that in 1837 the United States Army deliberately infected Mandan Indians by distributing blankets that had been exposed to smallpox, resulting in 125,000 deaths. Others have made similar charges, though without the high death toll. However, sociology professor Thomas Brown argues that Churchill's cited sources do not support these claims. According to Brown, one of Churchill's sources, Russell Thornton, agrees that Churchill has misrepresented him, saying, "The history is bad enough  there's no need to embellish it."11 Historian Guenter Lewy agrees that there is no evidence that the United States ever attempted to deliberately infect Native Americans. In fact, he says, the opposite was taking place: the U.S. government had implemented a program of smallpox vaccination for Indians at the time of the alleged Mandan incident. Vaccination for Native Americans had been suggested in 1801 by President Thomas Jefferson, who attempted to send smallpox vaccine on the Lewis and Clark expedition for distribution to western tribes. An official U.S. vaccination program was first funded in 1832 during the administration of President Andrew Jackson, with an act passed "for the purpose of arresting the progress of smallpox among the several tribes by vaccination." One study concludes that in some areas of the United States, American Indians were eventually more thoroughly vaccinated against smallpox than their white neighbors.12[/i][/b] also, reasons that the disease spread so fast and in general: [b][i]-People fled whenever there were outbreaks of disease, which inadvertantly helped spread the disease even further. This also left few people behind to care for the infected people, who often died from lack of food and water. -Native American medical treatments such as sweat baths and cold water immersion (practiced in some areas) weakened patients and probably increased mortality rates.7 -Europeans brought so many deadly diseases with them because they had many more domesticated animals than the Native Americans. Domestication usually means close and frequent contact between animals and people, which is an opportunity for animal diseases to mutate and migrate into the human population. [/i][/b] the british (our ancestors) definatly did spread the blankets... we (americans) didn't do that, and the article that ward churchill wrote was bullshit, as is discussed wilkepedia above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Come on now, Rick. That was probably written by white people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote name='steggyD' date='Jul 27 2005, 12:48 PM']Come on now, Rick. That was probably written by white people... [right][post="120155"][/post][/right][/quote] Even worse, probably a white christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote name='steggyD' date='Jul 27 2005, 11:48 AM']Come on now, Rick. That was probably written by white people... [right][post="120155"][/post][/right][/quote] sorry, your probably right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote]i swear something happened to him to change so drastically in the past 6 months.. it sucks too...[/quote] [i][b]More education, My disgust of religion that was there from day one, just spread to other things[/b][/i] [quote]You're better off seeking information on your own, Beotch. BJ has no interest in presenting information and letting others form their own beliefs.[/quote] [i][b]I never claimed that I was to be seen as a presenter of both sides... Beotch I can recommend you some books but to some they would propaganda, to fox they should be illegal, and to Oldschooler they would be sedition.[/b][/i] [quote]Dissension can be a good thing. But you need to watch and not cross the line between dissension and disparaging...[/quote] [i][b]I disagree... finishes filling up Molotov Cocktails [/b][/i] [quote]Come on now, Rick. That was probably written by white people...[/quote] [i][b]Of course it was..... Also to me the blanket perse is not the entire issue... the issue is that they were invaded... and contact through invasion whether it causes death by contact or intentional exposure is still death ..... The entire concept that we Discovered America is completley flawed, racist, steelers suck ass, and rediculous. Europeans make it as if the land sporuted from the ocean when Columbus saw it..... That kind of belief combined with religion lends well to extermination[/b][/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jul 27 2005, 06:25 PM'][i][b]The entire concept that we Discovered America is completley flawed, racist, steelers suck ass, and rediculous. Europeans make it as if the land sporuted from the ocean when Columbus saw it..... That kind of belief combined with religion lends well to extermination[/b][/i] [right][post="120324"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] But how do we know there wasn't another group of people here before them even? You know, a group that they wiped out with diseases and such, when they arrived here. Scientists actually have found traces of people that date even further back than the native Americans which we usually believe were first here. We have even begun to retract the whole land bridge idea. Anyways, what do you want us to do? Go back to where we came from? My family has been here since around Civil War time, where are we supposed to go? I don't think they're holding our house for us still in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote]But how do we know there wasn't another group of people here before them even? You know, a group that they wiped out with diseases and such, when they arrived here. Scientists actually have found traces of people that date even further back than the native Americans which we usually believe were first here. We have even begun to retract the whole land bridge idea. Anyways, what do you want us to do? Go back to where we came from? My family has been here since around Civil War time, where are we supposed to go? I don't think they're holding our house for us still in Germany.[/quote] [i][b]But what if Aliens were here first before all of us??? the what if game can go all day.... What I do know is there was a giant country full of brown people and a few hundred years later 99% of them were gone. As for what we should do... No we can't go back... But we can acknowledge our real history... Increase living conditions on Reservations through economic aid ... Place Native Americans more into the countrys image.... small steps like placing an indian chief on money, Teaching high school kids American history starting with Native Americans not Columbus, Have an official cabinet position for indigenous affairs, find companys that still might exist that did take part in Indian extermination and fine them up the ass with the $ going to reservartions etc etc etc ....[/b][/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Jul 27 2005, 04:25 PM'][i][b]More education, My disgust of religion that was there from day one, just spread to other things[/b][/i][right][post="120324"][/post][/right][/quote] So you claim you are more educated...but you hate on people and expect the people you hate on to act differently than what you are acting...that makes sense. [img]http://www.imagemagician.com/images/nebsmak/emotes/nut.gif[/img] [quote][i][b]I never claimed that I was to be seen as a presenter of both sides... Beotch I can recommend you some books but to some they would propaganda, to fox they should be illegal, and to Oldschooler they would be sedition.[/b][/i][/quote] You`re giving yourself WAY TO MUCH credit. What you are doing is disparaging...NOT sedition. You`re not leading a rebellion. You`re pushing people away from believing like you... [quote][i][b]I disagree... finishes filling up Molotov Cocktails [/b][/i][/quote] Hate on hater... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalsOwn Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Jul 27 2005, 11:52 AM']Even worse, probably a white christian. [right][post="120157"][/post][/right][/quote] BLASPHEMY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 [quote name='BengalsOwn' date='Jul 27 2005, 07:53 PM']BLASPHEMY! [right][post="120360"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] You know I was being facieses dont you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Jul 27 2005, 07:43 PM']You know I was being facieses dont you? [right][post="120387"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] i thought he was going off the "wiccans as pets" post... i was rolling when he posted it... not 100% sure though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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