big_dish Posted August 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Because I dont have the ability to not laugh at the hypocrisy of one of your "favorite black guys" Hope this doesn't make you not believe in heroes anymore :( Welfare Recipient Ben Carson Deserved His Welfare But Nobody Else Deserves Theirs He's not a favorite black guy. Hes a favorite person. So, the state and amount of people on welfare hasnt changed since the late 50's early 60's? Ooooookkkkaaaaayyy Welfare, or a help up, as it was designed and how it ran for decades was a good thing. It helped people get on their feet. Welfare as it is today is oftentimes a way of life. Its no longer a help up, its a hand out. Its free living, virtually forever for many people. It means women can have 10 kids and get paid for them. Welfare is a destructive device today, and was a helpful tool back then as it was intended. For the record- if welfare/food stamps/HUD etc etc was a 6 month or 1 year program to keep people in a home or fed while they looked for work I would be all for it. But its not- its an unincentive to do better things in life for many people, of all racial makeup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Ok ill play. If welfare was a tool back then but a crutch today what has changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Ok ill play. If welfare was a tool back then but a crutch today what has changed? Your entire premise is faulty. Welfare is a tool and safety net for many Americans in need. For people like this it is GOOD. It is also a system that is openly abused and gamed by a portion of the recipients. For people like this it is a CRUTCH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Your entire premise is faulty. Welfare is a tool and safety net for many Americans in need. For people like this it is GOOD. It is also a system that is openly abused and gamed by a portion of the recipients. For people like this it is a CRUTCH. it isn't my premise. Dish is somehow suggesting that welfare was different when Ben Carson took it then it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_dish Posted August 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 it isn't my premise. Dish is somehow suggesting that welfare was different when Ben Carson took it then it is today. Thats because it was... and he was a child when he benefited from it. That was 60+ years ago. Your entire premise is faulty. Welfare is a tool and safety net for many Americans in need. For people like this it is GOOD. It is also a system that is openly abused and gamed by a portion of the recipients. For people like this it is a CRUTCH. yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Then if it was I ask again what changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Oh are we going to do the "Welfare Queen" thing? Cool, let's talk about the TARP program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I'm embarrassed for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'm embarrassed for you. As am I for you. I think Jamie is posting under your name in this thread and the Ferguson thread. I'm trying to stay out of this forum and these threads though, because I realize the futility of it and I don't like it when I want to throat punch people who I used to like and respect. One thing I've learned posting and reading in here over the years, no one's mind is ever changed. You just get pissed off, and/or you piss people off. But these are scary times and important issues, so it's hard to stay quiet. Luckily after following the threads, I don't even need to comment. I agree with everything big_dish and SF2 have said in the Ferguson thread. Sorry guys, that hurts your standing more than helps in here, but while staying on the sidelines, I feel guilty for not publicly throwing out some support. side note; I think everyone in here is an intelligent, "good" person with the best of intentions. It always amazes me how such polar opposite views can come from people who share those qualities. Jamie hates it when I say this, but perception is reality for each of us. We all feel like the "other side" is bat shit crazy, and our side is so obviously correct and righteous. Reality is usually somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Not sure where y'all were going with the whole welfare thing (well, I have my suspicions) but keep in mind the majority of people on welfare are rural, white Southerners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Im not sure why Backer disagreeing with me means it hurts my standing around here but ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Im not sure why Backer disagreeing with me means it hurts my standing around here but ok. Not what I said. Me agreeing with big_dish and SF2 hurts their standing in here because some of you think I'm a horrible racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 One thing I've learned posting and reading in here over the years, no one's mind is ever changed. I wouldn't say "never", as it was a post by BJ many years ago that served as the linchpin for changing my whole worldview at a time when I was on your side of the political spectrum. Now, most folks aren't going to put forth the epistemological effort to look that closely at their own beliefs, belief system and worldview, but it's worth the journey if you want to give it a shot. Oh, and people don't change their worldview because they never bother to go see the world. Just sayin'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 I wouldn't say "never", as it was a post by BJ many years ago that served as the linchpin for changing my whole worldview at a time when I was on your side of the political spectrum. Now, most folks aren't going to put forth the epistemological effort to look that closely at their own beliefs, belief system and worldview, but it's worth the journey if you want to give it a shot. Oh, and people don't change their worldview because they never bother to go see the world. Just sayin'..... Yep. I've told BJ the same, that his views on inequality and justice reflect some things I have read in liberation theology and has changed some of my views as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 As am I for you. I think Jamie is posting under your name in this thread and the Ferguson thread. I'm trying to stay out of this forum and these threads though, because I realize the futility of it and I don't like it when I want to throat punch people who I used to like and respect. One thing I've learned posting and reading in here over the years, no one's mind is ever changed. You just get pissed off, and/or you piss people off. But these are scary times and important issues, so it's hard to stay quiet. Luckily after following the threads, I don't even need to comment. I agree with everything big_dish and SF2 have said in the Ferguson thread. Sorry guys, that hurts your standing more than helps in here, but while staying on the sidelines, I feel guilty for not publicly throwing out some support. side note; I think everyone in here is an intelligent, "good" person with the best of intentions. It always amazes me how such polar opposite views can come from people who share those qualities. Jamie hates it when I say this, but perception is reality for each of us. We all feel like the "other side" is bat shit crazy, and our side is so obviously correct and righteous. Reality is usually somewhere in the middle. You are wrong in one sense.... At least with me... My mind has been changed a few times in this forum and I value the opinions.... When they are well thought out and presented in a good manner... What I don't like and I try not to argue with people who do this is when it becomes an obvious "I am right and you wrong" machismo display... Kind of like when you are arguing with someone in person and you realize they aren't hearing a word you say, but they are just thinking about what they will say next to prove you wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 I can't say I've ever done a complete 180 based on something I've read here, but it's definitely made me question my own beliefs and refine my arguments. It's also a valuable insight into how someone with an opposing view arrived at that viewpoint, or in some unfortunate cases the lengths people will go to in order to justify those views to themselves or even delude themselves as to what those views ultimately amount to.. as on display here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 You are wrong in one sense.... At least with me... My mind has been changed a few times in this forum and I value the opinions.... When they are well thought out and presented in a good manner... What I don't like and I try not to argue with people who do this is when it becomes an obvious "I am right and you wrong" machismo display... Kind of like when you are arguing with someone in person and you realize they aren't hearing a word you say, but they are just thinking about what they will say next to prove you wrong.... Your metamorphosis, from ACA passage rancor to post mid-term election "shit, they're coming for me" change was particularly gratifying. Please note that this is not meant to be a teasing post; it's just nice to see someone else gain a greater understanding of the world's dysfunction and lack of empathy and realize that there are changes to be made that can benefit us all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Your metamorphosis, from ACA passage rancor to post mid-term election "shit, they're coming for me" change was particularly gratifying. Please note that this is not meant to be a teasing post; it's just nice to see someone else gain a greater understanding of the world's dysfunction and lack of empathy and realize that there are changes to be made that can benefit us all... I like to believe I reside some where in the middle on most issues... More towards common sense and that not everything... Or better yet barely any issue is clearly black and white... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 I like to believe I reside some where in the middle on most issues... More towards common sense and that not everything... Or better yet barely any issue is clearly black and white... Admitting you're wrong is not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Admitting you're wrong is not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength... And one of the harder things in life to do! Lol Only age and wisdom can teach you that you don't know every damn thing in the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 And one of the harder things in life to do! Lol Only age and wisdom can teach you that you don't know every damn thing in the world! Damn straight.... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Turns out this original story wasn't even true, the kid wasnt white he was hispanic.... and all that was said about the cop was he was "not white" which doesnt mean he was black either. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/24/right-wing-spreads-despicable-lie-about-shooting-victim-in-order-to-support-their-race-hate/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Turns out this original story wasn't even true, the kid wasnt white he was hispanic You can be both when it fits the narrative. (George Zimmerman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 You can be both when it fits the narrative. (George Zimmerman) As we've seen with this ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_dish Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Turns out this original story wasn't even true, the kid wasnt white he was hispanic.... and all that was said about the cop was he was "not white" which doesnt mean he was black either. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/24/right-wing-spreads-despicable-lie-about-shooting-victim-in-order-to-support-their-race-hate/ I already knew he was hispanic. But in this forum, Hispanic is the exact same thing as white, for some reason. So there was no point in mentioning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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