Jump to content

Ben vs Carson


Recommended Posts

Did that guy say DVDA???

Like Double Vaginal Double Anal???

No thanks dude... back to Squeeler nation with you and your 4 sausage block schemes.

Jeezes - I don't like us opening up our doors to this type of stuff... Is this why Myron Cope retired???

Keith
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Diamond Dave
[quote name='mongoloido' date='Jul 25 2005, 12:56 AM']I think Carson did more last year with less. He didn't have the two headed running game or the monster defense. I think more was asked of him than of Ben. I think Ben did a great job of managing games, but not a great job of going out and winning games. Not his fault really, he wasn't asked to win many games. It will take time for him.

Carson had to go win games from the start because our defense forced that on him. He struggled early, then showed game management skills against Dallas and Washington. After having a good half against you Steelers, he looked pretty crappy in the fourth quarter. After that last stumble though (against your great defense), Carson played lights out football against Cleveland, Baltimore, and New England (until that damn injury). He kept us in games early and won those games for us late.
Ultimately, I think Carson had the better year. The Steelers had a fantastic year, but I think Carson learned the NFL game and has proven capable of putting the team on his shoulder and winning. I believe Steelers players and fans still have to be holding their breath a little to see if Ben has that ability. I suspect he does, but I think he still needs to show it.
[right][post="118844"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. There were a number of games throughout the year that the Steelers were trailing late in the game and Roethlisberger had to lead the team back and get the win. Right off the top of my head, the games against Jacksonville and Dallas come to mind.

He struggled in the playoffs, which is something you won't find any Steeler fan denying. However those playoff game were NOT typical performances from him. It would be like one of us pointing to Palmer's first game against the Ravens as an indication of his entire NFL career.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest mongoloido

[quote name='Diamond Dave' date='Jul 25 2005, 07:53 AM']Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong. There were a number of games throughout the year that the Steelers were trailing late in the game and Roethlisberger had to lead the team back and get the win. Right off the top of my head, the games against Jacksonville and Dallas come to mind.

He struggled in the playoffs, which is something you won't find any Steeler fan denying. However those playoff game were NOT typical performances from him. It would be like one of us pointing to Palmer's first game against the Ravens as an indication of his entire NFL career.
[right][post="118916"][/post][/right][/quote]


In Dallas, he drove the team 24 yards for a victory on two passes for 17 yards and three straight running plays. A come from behind win, yes, but not the circumstances anyone felt fear. The Steelers started with the ball in easy field goal position, down by 3. Not a high pressure situation, in my opinion.

Jacksonville looked like a good win for Ben. Nice job on his part.

I still stand by my earlier post... In the future, don't say I'm "flat out wrong" without bringing arguments that challenge all of my post, please. I find it rude to have spent time and effort on a defensable opinion, only to have someone thrust a blanket denial and two vague game references in response. Jacksonville gives Ben a little more seasoning, but doesn't blow my arguments away by any means.

As for your second point: I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with that answer to Ben's performance in the playoffs if I lived yellow and black. In Ben's last five games, he's thrown more INTs than TDs in four of those games. He was miserable against the Jets, and better, but still throwing the INTs against the Giants. He rocked against the Ravens, which should put a smile on every face here :) . After that game though, he played two pretty bad games against the Jets and Patriots in the playoffs.

There's no need to panic or worry about Ben but you can't quite call four mediocre to lousy performances out of his last five games a mere blip on the radar. Ben has a long future in the NFL ahead of him (provided he wears a helmet :) ), but I would seriously not be breathing easy just yet. A comfort level, for me, is seeing steady improvement over a period of time. Ben fizzle in his last 5 games doesn't give me the same feeling that Carson's last 5 games has given me. I know I'm a homer, but that doesn't seem like an overly homeristic viewpoint.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Diamond Dave

[quote name='mongoloido' date='Jul 25 2005, 09:59 AM']In Dallas, he drove the team 24 yards for a victory on two passes for 17 yards and three straight running plays. A come from behind win, yes, but not the circumstances anyone felt fear. The Steelers started with the ball in easy field goal position, down by 3. Not a high pressure situation, in my opinion.

Jacksonville looked like a good win for Ben. Nice job on his part.

I still stand by my earlier post... In the future, don't say I'm "flat out wrong" without bringing arguments that challenge all of my post, please. I find it rude to have spent time and effort on a defensable opinion, only to have someone thrust a blanket denial and two vague game references in response. Jacksonville gives Ben a little more seasoning, but doesn't blow my arguments away by any means.

As for your second point: I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with that answer to Ben's performance in the playoffs if I lived yellow and black. In Ben's last five games, he's thrown more INTs than TDs in four of those games. He was miserable against the Jets, and better, but still throwing the INTs against the Giants. He rocked against the Ravens, which should put a smile on every face here :) . After that game though, he played two pretty bad games against the Jets and Patriots in the playoffs.

There's no need to panic or worry about Ben but you can't quite call four mediocre to lousy performances out of his last five games a mere blip on the radar. Ben has a long future in the NFL ahead of him (provided he wears a helmet :) ), but I would seriously not be breathing easy just yet. A comfort level, for me, is seeing steady improvement over a period of time. Ben fizzle in his last 5 games doesn't give me the same feeling that Carson's last 5 games has given me. I know I'm a homer, but that doesn't seem like an overly homeristic viewpoint.
[right][post="118926"][/post][/right][/quote]

And I consider it rude for someone to post homer laden opinions as fact.

For the millionth time, no one is denying that he had a bad showing in the playoffs. But as I said, it would be like Steelers fans cherry picking Palmer's worst performance and saying "here it is - this is the best it's ever going to get".

Ben had a foot and rib injury in those games. Add that in with the mounting pressure of the entire nation looking at you as possibly being the first ever rookie to take his team to the Super Bowl. Think that might have had and effect?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest bengalrick

[i]And I consider it rude for someone to post homer laden opinions as fact.[/i] - [b]diamond dave[/b]

[i]In Dallas, he drove the team 24 yards for a victory on two passes for 17 yards and three straight running plays. A come from behind win, yes, but not the circumstances anyone felt fear. The Steelers started with the ball in easy field goal position, down by 3. Not a high pressure situation, in my opinion.

Jacksonville looked like a good win for Ben. Nice job on his part.[/i] - [b]monogloido[/b]

these are "homer opinions"??? :blink: they seem more like FACTS to me... great post mono...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Diamond Dave' date='Jul 25 2005, 12:19 PM']Ben had a foot and rib injury in those games. Add that in with the mounting pressure of the entire nation looking at you as possibly being the first ever rookie to take his team to the Super Bowl. Think that might have had and effect?
[right][post="118956"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

I thought Cower called Ben out on that and said that Benny boy didn't have a foot injury.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest bengalrick

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' date='Jul 25 2005, 11:58 AM']I thought Cower called Ben out on that and said that Benny boy didn't have a foot injury.
[right][post="118976"][/post][/right][/quote]

ouch... [url="http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/index.php?sport=pftball&type=profile&name=5273"]click here[/url]

[i]Jan. 27 - Steelers coach Bill Cowher said Ben Roethlisberger did not break two toes Sunday, as the quarterback had claimed, according to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. [b]Cowher said Roethlisberger was referring to toes that were broken in high school or college but were aggravated in the game.[/b] [/i]

:blink: ... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Diamond Dave

[quote name='bengalrick' date='Jul 25 2005, 01:10 PM']ouch... [url="http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/index.php?sport=pftball&type=profile&name=5273"]click here[/url]

[i]Jan. 27 - Steelers coach Bill Cowher said Ben Roethlisberger did not break two toes Sunday, as the quarterback had claimed, according to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. [b]Cowher said Roethlisberger was referring to toes that were broken in high school or college but were aggravated in the game.[/b] [/i]

:blink: ... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]   [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]
[right][post="118982"][/post][/right][/quote]


Do you read your own posts?


"...broken in high school or college but were aggravated in the game..."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Diamond Dave
[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' date='Jul 25 2005, 12:58 PM']I thought Cower called Ben out on that and said that Benny boy didn't have a foot injury.
[right][post="118976"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

He never said he didn't have a foot injury. The press took something Ben said and twisted the meaning. Ben had said in a post-game interview that he suffered a foot injury during the game. The press found out that Ben had broken two of his toes in a high school game and ran with the story that he broke them in the Patriots game.

Cowher only clarified that he reinjured those toes, that he didn't break them in that game.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' date='Jul 25 2005, 02:26 PM']I am sure these "toe injuries" will have a tendancy to flare up in every game that Ben is forced to throw the ball.
[right][post="119024"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


you guys are awfully damn hard on a rookie.....he was a good enough leader to help get the Steelers to the AFCC game.....when palmer gets the bengals there....lets see how well he performs....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest bengalrick

[quote name='Diamond Dave' date='Jul 25 2005, 01:08 PM']Do you read your own posts?
"...broken in high school or college but were aggravated in the game..."
[right][post="119016"][/post][/right][/quote]

must have missed that part :unsure:

still a pretty lousy excuse... i wonder if he would have said it if they would have won...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='bengalrick' date='Jul 25 2005, 03:29 PM']must have missed that part :unsure:

still a pretty lousy excuse... i wonder if he would have said it if they would have won...
[right][post="119073"][/post][/right][/quote]

we will never know.....lets see what carson's excuse is if he ever makes it that far.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Beaker' date='Jul 25 2005, 03:43 PM']Arent you guys tired of this pointless argument yet? Three threads devoted to it. Carson and Ben will answer on the field this yr.
[right][post="119094"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

It's the offseason....what else you got to do?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Diamond Dave

[quote name='bengalrick' date='Jul 25 2005, 03:29 PM']must have missed that part :unsure:

still a pretty lousy excuse... i wonder if he would have said it if they would have won...
[right][post="119073"][/post][/right][/quote]

Yes, bruised ribs and and injured foot. What lame excuses.

I'll remember this stance the next time I hear about the Bengals OL and Palmer having injuries last year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest bengalrick
you won't hear ME blaming losing on injuries... i might say it in jest hear and there, but injuries are part of the game...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Diamond Dave' date='Jul 24 2005, 06:27 PM']Umm...

Steelers, better record than the Eagles and won the head to head match up.
You were saying?
[right][post="118671"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
Umm the eagles went to the super bowl

steelers didnt

As i was saying
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 25 2005, 05:19 PM']Umm the eagles went to the super bowl

steelers didnt

As i was saying
[right][post="119157"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Unless the eagles beat the Steelers to get there it is not PROOF that they are better than the Steelers....both teams lost their last game to the same team

when you are a fan of the best team in your state you can talk shit.....uhhh....wait....never mind...the browns suck so bad Ohio St might beat them.....

when your team makes the AFCC game, you can talk shit.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest mongoloido
[quote name='Diamond Dave' date='Jul 25 2005, 12:19 PM']And I consider it rude for someone to post homer laden opinions as fact.[/quote]

Show me one stat that I have given that is not verifiable on nfl.com. After that, show me absolutely anything in your posts that involves more than opinion and vague reference. Man it's dumb trying to argue points with people unable to debate a topic on it's merits. I'm done with you and this thread.


[quote]For the millionth time, no one is denying that he had a bad showing in the playoffs. But as I said, it would be like Steelers fans cherry picking Palmer's worst performance and saying "here it is - this is the best it's ever going to get".[/quote]

I thought I made it clear that Carson showed steady improvement over his final games of the season. Aside from a great game against the Ravens, Ben played poorly and threw more interceptions than touchdowns in 4 of his final 5 games. We aren't talking about just the playoffs or 1 or 2 games. 4 of his last 5 games had Ben playing poorly. So no, it is absolutely nothing like picking Palmer's worst performance of the year, because his worst game was september 29th against the Baltimore Ravens. Ben's worst game was December 12th against the New York Jets. Carson improved at the end of the season, throwing more TDs than INTs in 5 of his last 6 games. Ben finished his final 6 games throwing more TDs than INTs only twice.

[quote]Ben had a foot and rib injury in those games. Add that in with the mounting pressure of the entire nation looking at you as possibly being the first ever rookie to take his team to the Super Bowl. Think that might have had and effect?
[right][post="118956"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Rothlisburger was listed as "questionable" for the Buffalo game with a rib injury (he did not play). After that, there is no mention of ANY injuries in his profile. If the injury isn't important enough to even list as making the player "probable," I don't buy it as an excuse at all.


Rothlisberger : [url="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/6770/injuries.html"]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...0/injuries.html[/url]


If you're curious, the site kept tabs on all the other players with injuries throughout the playoffs.














I honestly don't mean this as a flamewar insult, but: You really need to learn how to defend your own positions and attack other people's positions. You're not performing well in any aspect of the debate process.


Until the next thread, I think I'm done on this topic. Adieu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='TheWretchedMass' date='Jul 25 2005, 06:18 AM']Hmmm...Brown who sucks as an owner (until he hired marvin) or Rooney who just wants the money from all you idiots...tough decision.
[right][post="118912"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


this may well be the dumbest statement in the history of the English language. Followed closely by, "I do"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...