Ben vs Carson

[BengalsCat]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='Jul 27 2005, 10:17 AM']Yet another ? The Bengals are 29-41 against the Steelers.
That includes the lost decade. Way to go ! :roll:

 
Uggghhhh ....OK

 

Like I said....Bengals FANS accept it just as much as Steelers FANS.
You act like YOU had something to do with the Steelers winning
and WE had something to do with the Bengals losing. 
 

:roll:

How about Bettis having a ressurgence ? How about Troy Polamalu
having a break out year ? How about your Defense being
ranked 9th in 2003 and improving to 1st in 2004 ? How about
your Offense being ranked 31st in rushing  in 2003 and improving to
#2 in 2004 ?

The Steelers had the 14th ranked passing attack in 2003.
[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-PASSING/2003/regular"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-...NG/2003/regular[/url]
22nd overall Offense in 2003.
[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-TOTAL/2003/regular?sort_col_1=4"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-...ar?sort_col_1=4[/url]
The Steelers had the 16th ranked overall Offense in 2004.
[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-TOTAL/2004/regular?sort_col_1=4"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-...ar?sort_col_1=4[/url]

They were 28TH IN PASSING OFFENSE.
[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-PASSING/2004/regular?sort_col_1=8"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-...ar?sort_col_1=8[/url]
And 27TH IN PASSING ATTEMPTS...
[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-PASSING/2004/regular?sort_col_1=4"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/OFF-...ar?sort_col_1=4[/url]
But you want to act like the only difference between 2003 and 2004
was Roethlisberger and he is the ONLY reason for the improvement ? 
Ugggghhh.... OK [img]http://www.imagemagician.com/images/nebsmak/emotes/nut.gif[/img]
[right][post="120090"][/post][/right][/quote]


Post of the fucking year right here Old..... Since rothensburger iss just so perfect why did the Total offense go down.. Why was his passing ranked toward the end of the league..

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='mulepower' date='Jul 27 2005, 08:36 AM']Old Schooler,the 2003 Steelers  team and the 2004 Steelers team are basically the same team. There were only changes at the SS,FS position. The other starting positions replaced  were because of injury. Ben was the biggest difference on the 2004 team. Bettis started due to injury. 

  Any stats you throw up i know about already. There is nothing about the 2003 and 2004 Steelers you can tell me thats new.

  They went from 6 and 10 to 15 and 1.Saying Bettis and Polamalu was why and downplaying Ben as the main reason is hilarious. 

  The defense was because of Lebeau. 

You just don't want to accept that Ben,because he is in competition with Palmer,had more to do with the Steelers  winning record.

  Its everybody but Ben right LMAO. The 2003 team was much different with most of the same starters.
[right][post="120097"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Did I say it was EVERYONE BUT BEN ?
No I made a point that the Steelers had a suck ass running game
in 2003. I also made a point that their Defense wasn`t as good in 2003.
And then I made another point by showing you that the Steelers PASSING
Offense DROPPED in the rankings and that they were near
the bottom in the NFL in PASSING ATTEMPTS.
How in the fuck does that equal out to "Ben is the ONLY reason
the Steelers improved" ? The Steelers won in spite of Ben...NOT
because of him... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img]

[mulepower]

How many times are Steeler fans going to have to telll you that passing attempts doesn't mean a QB is better.

You seem to think that number of attempts is the key stat for a QB. I'd rather have a QB who completes passes when he does throw, rather than has to constantly throw to try to make up lost ground.

Palmer threw for only 250 more yards on almost 140 more attempts. He didn't throw 1,000 more yards like Favre did or 1500 more yards like Peyton Manning did. Palmer only threw 1 more TD on 140 more attempts. That's not a lot of production in all those throws.

The Steelers passing offense in 2004 was MUCH MORE efficient than in 2003.
GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
Maddox 16 519 298 57.4 3414 6.58 18 17 41/242 44 4 75.3
Ben 13 295 196 66.4 2621 8.88 17 11 30/213 43 7 98.1

[BengalsCat]

[quote name='mulepower' date='Jul 27 2005, 11:03 AM']How many times are Steeler fans going to have to telll you that  passing attempts doesn't mean a QB is better. 

  You seem to think that number of attempts is the key stat for a QB. I'd rather have a QB who completes passes when he does throw, rather than has to constantly throw to try to make up lost ground.

Palmer threw for only 250 more yards on almost 140 more attempts. He didn't throw 1,000 more yards like Favre did or 1500 more yards like Peyton Manning did.  Palmer only threw 1 more TD on 140 more attempts. That's not a lot of production in all those throws. 

  The Steelers passing offense in 2004 was  MUCH MORE  efficient than in 2003.
              GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
  Maddox 16  519 298 57.4 3414 6.58  18 17 41/242 44 4 75.3   
  Ben      13 295 196 66.4 2621 8.88  17 11 30/213 43 7 98.1
[right][post="120118"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Yeah but the catch is he will. He steadly improved his game over the course of the year.. I didnt see that with ben.... The true test will be this year when people actualy game plan against rottenburger and he has throw the ball.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='mulepower' date='Jul 27 2005, 09:03 AM']How many times are Steeler fans going to have to telll you that  passing attempts doesn't mean a QB is better. 

  You seem to think that number of attempts is the key stat for a QB. I'd rather have a QB who completes passes when he does throw, rather than has to constantly throw to try to make up lost ground.

Palmer threw for only 250 more yards on almost 140 more attempts. He didn't throw 1,000 more yards like Favre did or 1500 more yards like Peyton Manning did.  Palmer only threw 1 more TD on 140 more attempts. That's not a lot of production in all those throws. 

  The Steelers passing offense in 2004 was  MUCH MORE  efficient than in 2003.
              GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
  Maddox 16  519 298 57.4 3414 6.58  18 17 41/242 44 4 75.3   
  Ben      13 295 196 66.4 2621 8.88  17 11 30/213 43 7 98.1
[right][post="120118"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Well since is the talking shit forum...I guess I should talk a little shit. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/15.gif[/img]


If you would pull your head out of your ass you would see that I
am not saying Ben isn`t any good because he didn`t have very
many passing attempts. I am saying that the Steelers running
game and Defense IMPROVED over what they were in 2003
so they didn`t RELY on him to THROW THE BALL.
They didn`t live or die off of Ben`s arm until the Playoffs...
where they DIED.

And Palmer responded with some gawky growing pains at first,
but then, halfway through the schedule, something clicked under that
orange-and-black striped helmet.

His quarterback rating for the first seven games was 62.6. For his last six
games, four of them victories, it was 96.9. In his last 6 games... 4 of
them were against top 10 Defenses...that were the Redskins, the Ravens,
the Patriots and even your beloved Steelers...

[mulepower]

"I am shocked," quarterback Carson Palmer said" "I am shocked," quarterback Carson Palmer said. "Not to take anything away from the Browns, but I think that's a team we can beat. I'm shocked to be 1-4."

Cincinnati's offense didn't cross midfield until the final play of the third quarter and moved into Cleveland territory only twice. The Bengals gained only 189 yards, committed 10 penalties and went 1-for-13 on third downs.


Cincinnati's offense didn't cross midfield until the final play of the third quarter and moved into Cleveland territory only twice. The Bengals gained only 189 yards, committed 10 penalties and went 1-for-13 on third downs.

Johnson, who stirred up the Browns with his shipment, had three catches for 37 yards and four drops.

"I stunk it up today," he said. "This loss is really on my shoulders."

Johnson, though, had no regrets about his stunt and said he'd do it again.

"No one stopped me," he said. "I stopped myself."


Way to go Carson against those Cleveland Browns. Yeah i know about the second Browns game when those 3 Carson interceptions kept the Browns in the game.

The Steelers committed 10 penalties against the Bengals one game and still won, so thats no excuse for the Bengals against the Browns in the first game.

Ben didn't click against the Steelers which was a game in the last six that Carson started and you keep going back to that time frame.

The Steelers defense improved,no shit sherlock, way to go John Edwards.

There were games during the regular season where they relied on Ben and he pulled it out for them. Keep living in denial that he didn't.

Talking about the playoffs against the Super Bowl champs,at least the Steelers were able to beat them one time last year. The Bengals wouldn't have, even though you think Carson would have brought them back, all based on the one Balimore game.

You can't determine a QB by one game and part of another like you're doing LMAO.

Ben was a rookie which is more difficult than a second year player first year starter like Carson. Only Bengal fans use that as trying to be equal.


[quote]For his last six
games, four of them victories, it was 96.9. In his last 6 games... 4 of
them were against top 10 Defenses...that were the Redskins, the Ravens,
the Patriots and even your beloved Steelers...[/quote]

Ben faced Dallas too...125.5 QB rating. Ben faced Cleveland to and had a 107.4 QB rating. Ben had a 126.4 QB rating against NE. Ben had a 125.1 QB rating against Baltimore.

Steelers faced top 10 defenses in points allowed...ooh my lol. Jax,NYJ twice,NE,Phil,Baltimore,Washington. Carson couldn't beat my beloved Steelers.

The last seven games Ben faced the number #2 defense in points allowed NE IN THE PLAYOFFS,number #4 defense, NYJ, in points allowed twice;,faced the number #5 defense in points allowed Washington;faced the #6 defense in points allowed Baltimore; faced the number #7 defense in points allowed Jax.

So thats five of the last seven games against the top seven defenses in points allowed. Six of them wins. His QB rating the last seven games,including the playoffs,was 86. The QB rating the last five games that doesn't include the playoffs was 93.4 and that was against Washington,Jax,NYJ,NYG and Baltimore. Yes i know the last half Carson had a better QB rating. Ben won more games and came back against the Jags,Jets and Giants.

The statement [quote]They didn't RELY on him to THROW THE BALL.[/quote] How does that take away from what Ben did? The object of a game is to win it,not throw for the most passing yards or have the most passing attempts. Ben was more efficient as a QB in the 2004 season than Carson was. Steeler fans are saying Ben has more upside because he knows less and still had a better 2004 season individually than Carson.Ben threw a lot less,had one less TD pass, averaged 20 yards less per game passing while completing 6 less passes per game. Ben wasn't prepared to be the 2004 starter while Carson was prepared to be the 2004 starter. Maybe Marvin Lewis should run the ball more if he wants to win more games.


The fact of the matter is Ben played better against the Bengals than Carson did against Pittsburgh. Until that changes,the Bengals won't beat the Steelers.

[Guest Claptonrocks]

Carson vs Ben.... the beat goes on......both good young QB's making a niche for themselves in the NFL....
Who's better??? Hell Id take either of them if I could.. I like Palmer becasue of his arm strength... Ben was more mobile last year but Carson has lost weight so he'll improve in that catagory.... close call as of now.....
Im sure Cleveland wouldnt mind having either at this point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='mulepower' date='Jul 28 2005, 12:03 PM']The statement  How does that take away from what Ben did? The object of a game is to win it,not throw for the most passing yards or have the most passing attempts. Ben was more efficient as a QB in the 2004 season than Carson was. Steeler fans are saying Ben has more upside because he knows less and still had a better 2004 season individually than Carson.Ben threw a lot less,had one less TD pass, averaged 20 yards less per game passing while completing 6 less passes per game.  Ben wasn't prepared to be the 2004 starter while Carson  was prepared to be the 2004 starter. Maybe Marvin Lewis should run the ball more if he wants to win more games.
[right][post="120704"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


:roll:


I`m not going to respond to the "book" you posted.
I think you are confusing what the TEAM did with
what Roethlisberger did. (go figure)
I see you shifted from your original post though...
When you said that the "only difference between 2003 and 2004
was Roethlisberger." [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img]

When I said that "they didn`t rely on him to throw the ball"
Well ...that`s what QB`s are paid to do...when they DID
rely on him to throw the ball...he tanked.
He was exposed...he averaged an INT every 26 passes
during the regular season. In the playoffs WHEN THEY DID RELY ON HIM
he averaged an INT every 10.8 passes. Hell he only threw the ball
54 times in 2 games...but was picked off 5 times !
Oh and Palmer averaged an INT every 24 passes...

Roethlisberger was put into the PERFECT situation and he thrived.
I`m not disputing that...would he have played better than Eli Manning
if he was forced to play on the Giants...I doubt it.
Would the Steelers played better in the Playoffs with Palmer....probably.




Oh and as far as your last asinine statement.

[quote]The fact of the matter is Ben played better against the Bengals than Carson did against Pittsburgh. Until that changes,the Bengals won't beat the Steelers.[/quote]

Yeah Ben played better against the19th ranked defense than
Carson did against the #1 defense ....whoa you got me there ! :roll:

[CoolieMan]

how did palmer do in the playoffs????


as I have said before Qbs are paid to do more than throw passes.....ben did extremely well at leading the offense and helping them come from behind during the regular season....YES I wish he had done better in the playoffs, but then he WAS A ROOKIE....rookies make mistakes.....

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='CoolieMan' date='Jul 28 2005, 01:07 PM']how did palmer do in the playoffs????


as I have said before Qbs are paid to do more than throw passes.....ben did extremely well at leading the offense and helping them come from behind during the regular season....YES I wish he had done better in the playoffs, but then he WAS A ROOKIE....rookies make mistakes.....
[right][post="120756"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Yeah they get paid to hand the ball off too...Ben has that
part mastered. :roll:

Did Ben get the Steelers to the playoffs single-handedly ?
I`m pretty sure the #2 ranked running Offense and the
#1 ranked overall Defense had ALOT more to do with it...
(going to repeat myself)
The Steelers had the 28TH RANKED PASSING OFFENSE
and 27TH RANKED IN PASSING ATTEMPTS in the REGULAR SEASON.
He averaged 22 passes a game (and I`m just counting games
he started)
That has nothing to do with the Playoffs.

Every other Qb that was in the playoffs:
McNabb 31 passes a game
Manning 31 passes a game
Bulger 34 passes a game
Culpepper 34 passes a game
Brady 29 passes a game
Pennington 28 passes a game
Hasselback 33 passes a game
Brees 26 passes a game
Plummer 32 passes a game
Vick 21 passes a game
Favre 33 passes a game


Let me see...Roethlisberger threw on average about as many passes
a game through the season as Michael Vick ...and I think everyone
agrees Michael Vick kills people more with his legs than his arm.
Ben killed people more with his HAND OFFS than he did with his arm.
Get that spot ready in Canton for him ! :roll:

[Jamie_B]

Get 'em Captin Stat.

[CoolieMan]

Did I say Ben got them to the playoffs by himself? I don't think I have ever made that assertion....Everyone knows the running game and D got them to the playoffs....

My point about the playoffs was that the intensity is picked up during the post season and it is extremely tough for a rookie qb to adapt....maybe one day carson will make it that far.....unless the bengals D improves though...it won't happen soon.....Carson is a good qb and for Fantasy football he would be a better choice sense he passes more often......but he still has only had one good half of a season.....he needs to prove this year that the last 8 games is what he really is as a qb and not the inconsistant one he showed in the first half of last year.

During the regular season, Ben did lead the team to late game comebacks a few times....he can do it with his arm when necessary no matter what you bengal fans think....he can go deep with accuracy.....watch the kid play against someone other than the bengals so you can focus on him and not how your D is playing.....I was very impressed with the kid as a rookie....and with a whole training camp as the #1 guy...he should be even better this year......

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='CoolieMan' date='Jul 28 2005, 02:07 PM']Did I say Ben got them to the playoffs by himself?  I don't think I have ever made that assertion....Everyone knows the running game and D got them to the playoffs....[right][post="120820"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

No.
But your buddy did...and you keep saying "how did Palmer
do in the Playoffs" ...so seeing how the thread title is titled Ben vs Carson
I thought I would remind you it was about the entire season... and for
Ben that INCLUDES the playoffs.

[quote]My point about the playoffs was that the intensity is picked up during the post season and it is extremely tough for a rookie qb to adapt....maybe one day carson will make it that far.....unless the bengals D improves though...it won't happen soon.....Carson is a good qb and for Fantasy football he would be a better choice sense he passes more often......but he still has only had one good half of a season.....he needs to prove this year that the last 8 games is what he really is as a qb and not the inconsistant one he showed in the first half of last year. [/quote]

Carson`s last 2 games were against 2 teams that were fighting
for home field advantage in the playoffs (Patriots) or for their
playoff lives (Ravens) and both games were on the road.
He put up great numbers against both teams in hostile enviroments.
He improved as the season went on...I have no reason to think
that the improvement won`t continue.

[quote]During the regular season, Ben did lead the team to late game comebacks a few times....he can do it with his arm when necessary no matter what you bengal fans think....he can go deep with accuracy.....watch the kid play against someone other than the bengals so you can focus on him and not how your D is playing.....I was very impressed with the kid as a rookie....and with a whole training camp as the #1 guy...he should be even better this year......[/quote]


Ummmm I live in Tennesee ...I watched the Steelers play against
a few teams....none of them were the Bengals.
I have already stated that Ben thrived in the position he was put in.
If the Steelers had a shitty running game and mediocre defense
then I am sure they wouldn`t have even won 8 games. Ben got way to
much credit for the Steelers success. That`s all I have been saying....

[Guest BlackJesus]

Southern Steeler........

[img]http://home.myuw.net/ryst/livejournal/caught_the_gay.jpg[/img]

[The Scales]

Just before the Patriots/Steelers playoff game, my buddy was like "yo, who you think is gonna win?"
He b.t.w went to the dark side during the lost decade, and became a Steelers fan.


Me: "Eh, the rots will expose Ben as the inexperienced rookie that he is." "He is the Beneficiary of a Stellar Defense and Run Game." "all this E.S.P.N Hype is just that."


Both are good, but Carson's better and i don't need to break down a million stats to know this.

And anyway, it's about the team, and the Steelers were far and away the better team last year. Continunity has a lot to do with that, but the Bengals held their own and are on their way up.

[Southern Steeler]

Black Jesus,




[img]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu7.jpg[/img]

[JC]

[quote name='Southern Steeler' date='Jul 28 2005, 10:51 PM']Black Jesus,
[img]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu7.jpg[/img]
[right][post="121133"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]
and southern steelers comeback is shut the fuck up which=

BURNED [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img]

[Southern Steeler]

well, I could have responded with another equally retarded gay post. I just decided to go in another direction.

But since you like those........

[img]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg[/img]

[sean]

I watched Ben play at Miami and wanted him to be a Bengal. He had that "something" that teams win with...similar to Tom Brady. Most of the time he gets the job done and wins. That being said, I still would rather have Carson. He has better physical skills and also is a winner. Not only is he a winner , he knows how to overcome subpar performances. He seems to have the same mentality as a successful closer in the MLB.
Ben hasn't had to show this trait yet. Let's see how he bounces back after setbacks.

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='Southern Steeler' date='Jul 28 2005, 11:28 PM']well, I could have responded with another equally retarded gay post.  I just decided to go in another direction.

But since you like those........

[img]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg[/img]
[right][post="121148"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

how dumb are you? a fucking steelers fan started this "gay thread"

dumbass [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img]

[Jophis]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' date='Jul 25 2005, 12:26 PM']I am sure these "toe injuries" will have a tendancy to flare up in every game that Ben is forced to throw the ball.
[right][post="119024"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

No shit...so wtf? Are we going to hear about Ben's high school foot injury for the rest of his career whenever he plays like shit?

[mulepower]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='Jul 28 2005, 02:03 PM']:roll:
I`m not going to respond to the "book" you posted.
I think you are confusing what the TEAM did with
what Roethlisberger did. (go figure)
I see you shifted from your original post though...
When you said that the "only difference between 2003 and 2004
was Roethlisberger."  [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img]  [/quote] My quote was

[quote]Ben was the biggest difference on the 2004 team.[/quote] Ben was the biggest difference in the 2004 team. The Steelers had the 2004 Bus,not the 1997 Bus. They had Duce Staley and half the season he was injured. The Bengals have a top 10 back while the Steelers have two guys close to a #20th ranked back in the NFL now. The post above wasn't that long.




[quote]When I said that "they didn`t rely on him to throw the ball"
Well ...that`s what QB`s are paid to do...when they DID
rely on him to throw the ball...he tanked.
He was exposed...he averaged an INT every 26 passes
during the regular season. In the playoffs WHEN THEY DID RELY ON HIM
he averaged an INT every 10.8 passes. Hell he only threw the ball
54 times in 2 games...but was picked off 5 times !
Oh and Palmer averaged an INT every 24 passes...[/quote]

Carson costs the Bengals game after game after game.You think a rookie QB is exposed. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] He just started his career and wasn't expected to start but be #3 on the depth chart in 2004.The Heisman Trophy winner Carson Palmer, who played at USC under Chow,was all prepared for the 2004 season while watching film of the 2003 NFL season, still didn't have a better season than a rookie QB from a Mac conference.

Let me bring up these games Palmer "choked" AGAIN
Lets talk about the Carson Palmer who brings his team back according to Bengal fans. He's a number one pick who had ample opportunities to win more games.
Against the NYJ,Palmer throws a pick with two minutes left on the last drive when a TD could have tied it,sending the game into OT. Hey that was his first choke.

Third start,3 int. against the Ravens and couldn't get them into the end zone. Hey its the second choke.

Fourth start,a little over two minutes left down by four points against the Steelers. What does he do? Troy Polomalu picks his pass off and runs him over at the goal line to score. Then next possession Palmer throws an int. to Chad Scott to just about end the game. Another choke.

Why couldn't Palmer against the Browns in the first game lead the Bengals to any TDs in the second half? Yep another choke job.

Against Tennessee,Palmer had 2nd and goal at the 9 with 35 seconds left. He even said," I should've gone one-two and thrown it out of the back of the end zone, stop the clock and give us a chance on third down," Palmer said. Instead was sacked by Haynesworth and fumbled. This is the Tennessee team that wins their division yearly. Oh thats right,they went 5 and 11,last in the division. Before that game,they were 2 and 5. Another choke job.

Against the Steelers again,with a chance to win the game Carson starts at his own nine yard line. Gets sacked by 34 year old Kimo on first down.Second down,Williams and Aaron Smith hit Palmer in the end zone causing a intentional grounding penalty.Why couldn't Palmer lead his team to any TDs in the second half,heck any FGs. In the second half, Cincinnati's offense managed only 42 yards and two first downs. Another choke job.

The second game against the Browns,Palmer kept the Browns in it with three interceptions. Two of the picks gave the Browns field position at the seven and one making it easy to score 14 points. The other one resulted in a FG. Yeah Palmer threw 4 TDs and the Browns went 4 and 12.

Before Palmer got hurt the score was Patriots 35 and Bengals 21.So i don't think he would have won that game for the Bengals.


Thats six games he choked.


Carson averaged a TD pass every 24 passes. Ben averaged a TD pass every 17 passes. You're making a big deal out of passing attempts and how many completions when Palmer threw for only 276 more yards.With the way you talk,Palmer had 1,000 more yards passing. After all,Carson has better receivers and a better RB on offense. Thats a good situation offensively with top 5 WR in CJ,Mr 7-11.

Ben played bad in the playoffs and only one other rookie starting QB advanced past the first game in the playoffs since the 1970 merger too.It goes to show you rookie QBs don't win in the playoffs. Even Dan Marino as a rookie lost in the playoffs; to the 9 and 7 Seattle Seahawks 27 to 20.Ben also threw 5 TDs in 54 attempts which a TD pass about EVERY 11 passes.

You think during the playoffs is the only time the Steelers relied on him. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] You equate passing attempts,not yards,to the team relying on the QB. For some crazy reason,you think run pass ratio is how you determine whether an offense relies on the QB without considering passing yardage. When your team is behind in the 4th quarter,like games against the Cowboys,Jaguars,Jets,Giants the team is relying on the QB to throw the ball.

Its funny that Ben even threw the ball

Ben
Att Comp Pct Yds YPA TD Int 1st 20+ Sac Rate
1ST QUARTER 76 51 67.1 862 11.34 6 5 40 19 6 104.2
2ND QUARTER 91 58 63.7 708 7.78 5 2 37 10 12 96.8
3RD QUARTER 63 37 58.7 455 7.22 2 3 24 7 5 71.9
4TH QUARTER 65 50 76.9 596 9.17 4 1 29 7 7 118.5

Ben threw for 130 first downs. Ben threw 43 passes that were 20 yards+. 18 passes that were 20 yards + Ben threw in the first half,25 passes 20 yards + in the second half.

Carson
Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int 1st 20+ Sac Rate
1ST QUARTER 101 66 65.3 643 6.37 50 5 3 30 5 4 87.2
2ND QUARTER 112 66 58.9 709 6.33 51 6 6 39 7 5 73.1
3RD QUARTER 97 65 67.0 729 7.52 76 3 3 37 8 3 86.7
4TH QUARTER 122 66 54.1 816 6.69 62 4 6 34 14 13 65.5

Carson threw for 140 first downs. Carson threw 34 passes 20 yards +. Carson threw 12 passes 20 yards+ in the first half while he threw 22 passes 20 yards+ in the second half.

Ben threw for 219 more yards in the 1st quarter, Carson threw for 1 more yard in the second quarter. Looks like Ben threw for more yards in the first half. Carson had 276 more passing yards in the third quarter and 220 more yards in the 4th quarter. Carson threw for more yards in the second half.

Bengals fans say Ben didn't do much passing the ball so he's inferior yet Ben had more 20 + yard passes.




[quote]Roethlisberger was put into the PERFECT situation and he thrived.
I`m not disputing that...would he have played better than Eli Manning
if he was forced to play on the Giants...I doubt it.
Would the Steelers played better in the Playoffs with Palmer....probably.
Oh and as far as your last asinine statement.
Yeah Ben played better against the19th ranked defense than
Carson did against the #1 defense ....whoa you got me there ! :roll:
[right][post="120753"][/post][/right][/quote]

Ben wasn't put into a PERFECT situation(there is none) because, unlike Carson Palmer who had all of the 2004 offseason to get ready to be the starter,the Steelers QB went in for an injured Tommy Maddox in the second game. During training camp,our #2 QB got hurt and Ben was moved up the depth chart. Ben had to adjust a lot more than Carson.

Your passing defense was much better than your rushing defense. The Bengals secondary isn't bad at all ,except maybe at SS. So the discrepancy isn't as big as you're making it out to be.

The only better rookie QB since 1970 was Dan Marino.

Why would Palmer do better in the playoffs?Ben played with a rib injury could Palmer play with his injury. Palmer should have led the Bengals to the playoffs. He had chances too.

[Southern Steeler]

[quote name='Nati Ice' date='Jul 29 2005, 01:28 AM']how dumb are you? a fucking steelers fan started this "gay thread"

dumbass  [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img]
[right][post="121240"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Yes, a Steeler fan started this thread. Your buddy Black Jesus "gayed" it up.



dumbass

[Southern Steeler]

[quote name='sean' date='Jul 29 2005, 01:10 AM']Ben hasn't had to show this trait yet. Let's see how he bounces back after setbacks.
[right][post="121227"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


This is one of the best statements on this board. 100% true. How he performs this season will be a good measuring stick for how is career will turn out, in my opinion.

The great ones respond from a bad game (AFCC) by turning it up a notch and learning from their mistakes. We shall see if Ben fits that category or not.

[BlacknGold]

[quote name='Palmerforpresident9' date='Jul 24 2005, 03:47 PM']Because carson can throw a spiral

and he had more passing yards and touchdowns

You didnt put in passing yards

Carson-2897

Benni-2621

and more completions to...jeez how can you forget those

I also forgot to add that carson has a better teacher in marvin lewis so in the long run he will be better

(waits to see if a steeler fan makes a mistake and disses marvin)
[right][post="118632"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

The key to your passing yards is that Ben started 14 games, Carson beat him by 200 yards that equals 1 game. Anything else?