Bgal Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I am not going to knock you for this thread because I think you have a valid point. Andy is spreading the ball big time and Mohamed Sanu is fucking Shining. When AJ is back and Marvin Jones I honestly can't think of ANY team that has 3 WR as good as ours without being a Homer. I'd rather have what Denver has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I don't think Dalton has ever thrown an Int that he can be blamed for. Always somebody to doing something. True Story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 https://vine.co/v/OqzmxF5ZzYI If Gresham runs the vertical like he is supposed to, this ball drops right in the breadbasket. This is from Joe Goodberry's Twitter, who had a conversation with a fan over Twitter breaking down why this play happened as it did after posting this video (hence the original comment about the throw on the video). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Watched in multiple times on DVR and it's still an overthrow. Goodberry is wrong if he thinks Gresham should have run a vertical route with the two deep safeties. The open area was right behind the linebackers and in front of the safeties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Watched in multiple times on DVR and it's still an overthrow. Goodberry is wrong if he thinks Gresham should have run a vertical route with the two deep safeties. The open area was right behind the linebackers and in front of the safeties. If Kuechly drops at all, Gresham is supposed to stay vertical. If Dalton throws it where Gresham runs to, its an easy pick by Kuechly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'd rather have what Denver has. Demarius is up there with AJ talent wise. Mohamed or Marvin Jones are better than Emanuel Sanders. Welker is one more hit in the head away from being a vegetable. So, I respect your opinion but I'll stick with the Cincy boys. PS...Julius is better than both of our TE's combined I'll say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 It's an overthrow or the ball shouldn't have gone there. Gresh is split out in a short slot and takes a dull slant up field and sits right behind the MLB and in front of the safeties. I what to know what option route Andy is throwing that Gresh is supposed to run taking him out of the soft spot of the zone and into a defender. Anyway, it don't fucking matter. 0 points for the Panthers as their kicker missed a FG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Pick #1 Ill give you. Pick #2 Andy threw it too high. That said he wasn't the problem yesterday. The D who had every starter on the field for most of the game and only missing Thompson in reserves was the problem. We are blitzing way too much imo. Im cool with more than Zimmer was doing but they need to do it less. And dial up something different. That delayed blitz is awful. Seldom gets close, takes a defender out of the picture basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 If Kuechly drops at all, Gresham is supposed to stay vertical. If Dalton throws it where Gresham runs to, its an easy pick by Kuechly. No way. Gresh had the window he was about 5 yards behing the LB. He starts on the hash and ends up open in the middle of the "B". The intercepting safety was charging from the hash and catches it inside the hash marks about 5 yards behind Gresh probably in the middle, his momentum to catch up to the overthrow took him to the opposite hash. If Gresh was supposed to stay vertical, Andy didn't throw it vertical. Anyway Gresh isn't Billy Hamilton that ball wasn't throw at the right distance either. Also if Gresh was supposed to stay vertical and that's what Andy threw why the hell is he jumping for the ball? The ball went right through the B and about 5 yards deeper. Greah was open, too. Also Andy and Hue sat on the bench looking at something after the play. Anyway doesn't matter, they didn't get any points out of it. Can we put this to bed now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Gresham jumped because he wasn't in the right place. He's supposed to be where the ball lands. The whole route is based on Dalton and Gresham reading the coverage of 59, Dalton read it right, Gresham read it wrong. 59 has underneath coverage, if Dalton throws the route Gresham runs it's picked off or broken up. On this type of play the QB has to trust his receiver to make the same read. He's throwing to a spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgal Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Interceptions are going to happen for a variety of reasons, especially when your defense is literally forcing the offense to throw a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Gresham jumped because he wasn't in the right place. He's supposed to be where the ball lands. The whole route is based on Dalton and Gresham reading the coverage of 59, Dalton read it right, Gresham read it wrong. 59 has underneath coverage, if Dalton throws the route Gresham runs it's picked off or broken up. Just stop. It was 3rd and 15, Gresh cut his route off a yard or two behind first down. His momentum carries him in the air to the 50 as he trys to catch it. Behind the LBs in front of the safeties. The intercepting safety was outside the hash and had to charge up field to catch the ball at Panther 43/44 yardline. Andy's release wouldn't have allowed for a TE to get that deep. He had to release that ball when Gresh was at the Bengal 45. The intercepting safety that was about 5 yards behind Gresh had to lunge to get and his momentum was so great it carries him to the opposite hash and to the Panther 38 as he prepares to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 https://vine.co/v/OqzmxF5ZzYI If Gresham runs the vertical like he is supposed to, this ball drops right in the breadbasket. This is from Joe Goodberry's Twitter, who had a conversation with a fan over Twitter breaking down why this play happened as it did after posting this video (hence the original comment about the throw on the video). Nope. Ball wasn't thrown like Gresh was to stay vertical. Gresh lined up on the hash. The ball goes through the B and was intercepted between the hash. I don't care who Joe Goodberry is. Dalton probably release the ball when Gresh is around the Bengal 45. The intercepting safety who is playing behind Gresh outside the hash has to turn towards the Panther sideline charge up field and catch the ball at the Panther 44/43. His effort to catch up to the ball can be measured as he starts for his return he's on the opposite hash and at the Panther 38. If Andy threw the ball for a vertical route by Gresh and at the proper distance that safety is making a play without chasing it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 People on both sides seem very sure of themselves here. Is there an article or other evidence to support it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgal Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 People on both sides seem very sure of themselves here. Is there an article or other evidence to support it? Does it matter? Andy is going to have bad throws. Gresham is going to fuck up. Let's just bash both of them for it and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I have been pleasantly surprised with Dalton this year. He is allowed to sail a pass here or there. He isn't making tons of mistakes which is great. Gresham isn't either so far. Sanzenbacher has more fumbles. Both have a history of issues in these areas. I am not excited when it comes down to crunch time to see the ball in either's hands. I don't think the last game was either's fault. That one was on the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Even if that was on Dalton, or if it was on Gresham, Dalton went 33 for 43 yesterday. He missed just 10 passes, in a game without 3 of their top 4 receiving options. He was really good. Gresham was helpful. It was an unfortunate pass, but sometimes shit happens. They didn't lose that game yesterday because of anything that Dalton or Gresham did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 People on both sides seem very sure of themselves here. Is there an article or other evidence to support it? NFL game rewind. Pause it at 1:27. What you see is Bengals had to get to 46 for a first. Gresh just turning in at the 47/48 in the middle of the field (proper depth for a first). Ball in the air (this is important) at about the Bengals 43. He's directly in the middle of 3 defenders. 4/5 yards behind a LB and 4/5 in front of two safeties. It was an overthrow. There is no read that says take it up field. It would have been an incredible feat for Gresh to cover the additional 8-10 yards to get to the depth if you buy that a play is designed to go at defenders instead of front of them. It's not hard, the safety that made the play had 4/5 yards on Gresh to catch up to the ball and make the play at the Panther 44/43. Gresh would have needed to be at least to the Panther 45 and probably 44/43 to make a play on that throw. There's no freakin way Andy threw that ball at that time expecting Gresh to work at the assumed distance and it doesn't even make sense because they didn't need that much to move the chains and that depth would have gotten him covered. It's complete horseshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Even if that was on Dalton, or if it was on Gresham, Dalton went 33 for 43 yesterday. He missed just 10 passes, in a game without 3 of their top 4 receiving options. He was really good. Gresham was helpful. It was an unfortunate pass, but sometimes shit happens. They didn't lose that game yesterday because of anything that Dalton or Gresham did. I agree with this a bunch. Panthers got 0 points out of it and the Bengals tied the game and then took two leads (counting OT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Even if that was on Dalton, or if it was on Gresham, Dalton went 33 for 43 yesterday. He missed just 10 passes, in a game without 3 of their top 4 receiving options. He was really good. Gresham was helpful. It was an unfortunate pass, but sometimes shit happens. They didn't lose that game yesterday because of anything that Dalton or Gresham did. I agree completely. In my original post I said I thought Andy might have played his best game minus the two picks. He spread the ball around extremely well and had Carolina guessing wrong most of the day. The Bengals punted only once, allowed only one sack, and were very good on 3rd downs (10-16). Sanu, Gresham, Tate, and Sanzenbacher combined for 24 catches in AJ's absence. Gio and Pac man supplied huge explosive plays that delivered two touchdowns on quick scoring drives. Andy methodically moved the ball most of the day otherwise, except for the picks. The line deserves part of the blame for the 1st interception since the throw was clearly affected by the pressure. I thought the 2nd one was a risky throw that Andy just sailed a little bit. Going to Gio on that play was probably the better option even on 3rd down. The fact that Carolina missed the FG shortly afterward was fortuitous and kept us in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I agree completely. In my original post I said I thought Andy might have played his best game minus the two picks. He spread the ball around extremely well and had Carolina guessing wrong most of the day. The Bengals punted only once, allowed only one sack, and were very good on 3rd downs (10-16). Sanu, Gresham, Tate, and Sanzenbacher combined for 24 catches in AJ's absence. Gio and Pac man supplied huge explosive plays that delivered two touchdowns on quick scoring drives. Andy methodically moved the ball most of the day otherwise, except for the picks. The line deserves part of the blame for the 1st interception since the throw was clearly affected by the pressure. I thought the 2nd one was a risky throw that Andy just sailed a little bit. Going to Gio on that play was probably the better option even on 3rd down. The fact that Carolina missed the FG shortly afterward was fortuitous and kept us in the game. If you are looking to play blame game on that series. First down is were you should look. Gresh probably has close to a 100 yard day if they hit him open on first down. It was single high look the low safety jumps on the WR at the bottom and the high safety takes the other. Wide open - huge gain if not TD. The Interception play was a bad throw but it was excusable because of the down and distance and trailing and it ended up being 0 points for Panthers and the Bengals tied later and took the lead a couple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Credit where it's due - Gresh had a pretty good game. He & Andy seem to be developing a rapport. I'll take elite leadership over elite arm strength 11 times out of 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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