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Guns in America

MichaelWeston

By MichaelWeston
in JESUS & DRUMPF

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/one-roadblock-to-arming-teachers-insurance-companies/2018/05/26/59d6c704-5f7e-11e8-8c93-8cf33c21da8d_story.html?utm_term=.539c16f13b04

 

Kansas has a problem: It has a law allowing teachers to carry guns in the classroom, but almost no schools are using it because insurance companies refuse to provide coverage if they do. As EMC Insurance, the largest insurer of schools in Kansas, explained in a letter to its agents, the company “has concluded that concealed handguns on school premises poses a heightened liability risk.”

Then came the Parkland, Fla., school shooting in February, leading frustrated Republican legislators in Kansas to try forcing the issue with a bill banning “unfair, discriminatory” rates for schools that arm staff. The insurance industry held firm. Last month, the bill failed.

“I don’t think insurance companies are notorious anti-gun liberals,” said Mark Tallman, associate executive director for the Kansas Association of School Boards, “so we think they’ve got good reasons for not doing it.”

As proposals to arm teachers sweep across the nation, insurance companies are being forced to weigh the risks of these controversial plans. Some insurers are balking. Some are agreeing to provide policies but lamenting the lack of evidence about whether it makes schools safer — or increases the chances of people getting shot. Others are raising rates. 

“There’s not a lot of carriers that want to insure that risk,” Nate Walker, a senior vice president at insurer AmWINS Group. 

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T-Dub

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5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

Soon to be former FBI agent, I would guess. ND (negligent discharge) is generally a Big Deal even doing something reasonable like cleaning or checking a weapon after use.  I'm guessing Getting Jiggy With It carrying a hot weapon and pinging a civilian will cost him the badge & then some.

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USN Bengal

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The other sides take on school shootings... meanwhile our kids are no safer at all.

Shame on EVERYONE in office...

 

 

The shooting massacre in February at a Florida high school has unleashed a plethora of what experts say are questionable statistics that stoke confusion regarding gun violence in America.

One recent story by CNN, for example, states that there have been 23 school shootings so far this year where someone has been hurt or killed, and 288 since 2009.

In the recent case by CNN, they made up their own numbers by using a very broad definition of school shooting,” David Katz, CEO of Global Security and a former special agent with the DEA, told Fox News.

In the case of all those school shootings, Katz, who says this sort of study produces a false impression through “deceptive inclusion,” notes CNN’s report includes things such as BB guns. And it’s not necessarily the kind of gun violence that the headlines conjure up. According to Katz, the numbers include any shooting “that just happens to be on school property after hours with no real connection to the type of shootings we are all horrified at.”

William B. Fairley, president of Analysis & Interference — specialists in statistics and data science — agrees that most of the shootings on CNN’s list don’t approximate to what happened in Parkland, Fla., where 17 people were murdered this year in a shooting rampage on Feb. 14 at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

A heart-breaking gut check from an 8th grader on the real damage being done by excessive alarm about a statistically infinitesimal risk. "Shootings have made schools a place of ‘panicked fear’" https://t.co/vUD0PnDOpf via @BostonGlobe

— david ropeik (@dropeik) June 15, 2018

Fairley said that, by his count, 21 of the 23 shootings referenced by CNN “bear little resemblance . . . as they arise out of a fight, robbery, jealousy, accident, domestic situation, etc.” So even though the two school shootings left are two too many, the number 23 can create a misperception.

In addition, there’s a wider picture to take into account. For instance, historical comparisons. As Fairley notes, research has found “the current rate [of gun violence] to be well below that in the 1990s.”

"In the recent case by CNN, they made up their own numbers by using a very broad definition of school shooting.”

- David Katz

Another important comparison: how much gun violence is there in society at large? According to Fairley, “calculations indicate that gun violence in general dwarfs gun violence at schools and universities.” As distressing as school shootings are, Fairley believes we should note that “the injuries and deaths in the 23 incidents reported . . . add up to a tiny fraction of the annual total.”

David Ropeik, a consultant in risk communication and author of “How Risky Is It, Really?” ran the numbers. As he explained in a Washington Post editorial, taking into account the number of students attending school, “the statistical likelihood of any given public school student being murdered by gun, in school, on any given day since 1999, was roughly 1 in 1 billion.”

He then wondered if overreacting to the problem might be more dangerous than the risk of the actual shootings. As Ropeik explained to Fox News, the piece “got a lot of negative feedback . . . but no one quarreled with the numbers themselves.”

Ropeik gives a psychological explanation for the battling statistics on issues like gun safety. With groups like the NRA on one side and gun control advocates on the other, “we subconsciously twist the facts so our view of those facts matches the view of our tribe on that issue . . . People who are selective with how they calculate their numbers, and who are less than open and honest about what went into their numbers, can feed the polarization that keeps society from considering things objectively.”

Correcting Gun Control Lies about "America’s unique gun violence problem," responding to https://t.co/vioANAxhnD's maps and charts https://t.co/adqj8o2Oc5

— CrimeResearch (@CrimeResearch1) May 29, 2018

John Lott, President of the Crime Prevention Research Center and contributor to FoxNews.com, who has published “More Guns, Less Crime,” has long been in the thick of the gun debate. He goes into particulars on school shootings statistics, stating that the incidents under discussion include “a school-bus window broken by a pellet gun, a gun accidentally discharged in a weapons class at a . . . community college, a gun accidentally discharged by a police officer with no one harmed, a college student using a gun [to] stop himself from being beaten.”

Lott thinks the reporting on school shootings isn’t just misleading, but harmful. As he explains, “any death is a tragedy . . . but despite the recent uptick, the number of murders from school shootings has clearly been falling over time since the beginning of the 1990s. It is hard to think of any benefit from exaggerating the risks and making people think that this is a growing problem. It terrorizes kids.”

Experts agree that making the public more aware of the data can help cut through any questionable use of statistics. As Katz claims, the thing “an individual can do is parse through the data and see where terms are being manipulated.”

Ropeik adds, “openness and honesty about how the numbers were compiled should be required, and any numbers that don’t provide that explanation should be treated with caution.”

Lott thinks the press “too readily gives mass news attention to reports from . . . gun control organizations and only fact-checks them weeks after the initial news stories . . . My suggestion is that reporters contact others in the field to get critical comments before they publish news stories, and in this case actually take the time to do independent news searches on these cases themselves.”

Fairley would also demand more from the media that reports these numbers. He notes science journals “have policies for the accurate use of statistics. These are enforced by editors and reviewers to eliminate articles that fail the published standards. Would it be too much to ask that the organs that influence the conduct of our lives meet similar standards?”

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7 hours ago, BengalBacker said:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/06/21/no-one-tell-david-hogg-but-americans-set-a-gun-sales-record-in-april/

 

 

http://freebeacon.com/culture/report-nearly-400-million-civilian-owned-guns-america/

Seems to be at odds with this.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/american-gun-ownership-is-now-at-a-30-year-low/?utm_term=.1f54e174dcf7

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19 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Seems to be at odds with this.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/american-gun-ownership-is-now-at-a-30-year-low/?utm_term=.1f54e174dcf7

"According to the survey, which was conducted among 1,001 Americans."

 

First, do you think that's an adequate sample rate given the estimate is 400 million guns? Second, who was surveyed and how? Third, if I'm surveyed, I'm telling them no, I don't own a gun, as would most everyone I know who was asked.

 

I know a lot of people who have become first time gun owners and concealed carriers in recent years. Don't know anyone who used to have them but doesn't anymore.

 

https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/

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Jamie_B

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1 hour ago, BengalBacker said:

"According to the survey, which was conducted among 1,001 Americans."

 

First, do you think that's an adequate sample rate given the estimate is 400 million guns? Second, who was surveyed and how? Third, if I'm surveyed, I'm telling them no, I don't own a gun, as would most everyone I know who was asked.

 

I know a lot of people who have become first time gun owners and concealed carriers in recent years. Don't know anyone who used to have them but doesn't anymore.

 

https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/

1. I see no reason why 1001 is not adequate, no. 2. I have about as much of an idea of who was surveyed and how with regard to that survey as I do yours. 3. Because of some irrational fear that they might get taken away? 

 

I don't know I saw a guy destroy his AR-15 after that FL shooting. 

 

I'm wondering if there is lower ownership but with those that do own owning many more? That would make sense seeing as every time the NRA tells people they are coming for your guns you always see a spike in sales. 

Now, of course, Gun Manufacturers in part fund the NRA so I'm sure there is no vested interest in keeping you scared at all. 

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T-Dub Hall Of Fame

T-Dub

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:lmao:

 

Holy shit he's going to get himself shot!   I wasn't aware the NRA opposed a bill to restrict access between 4-12 years old.  I even think kids should probably be educated about guns considering the likelihood of encountering them but.. PUPPY PISTOL?  At least I'm not seeing many NRA bumper stickers these days. 

 

Cohen is doing God's work.  Too bad that Freddie Mercury project fell through since dude is obviously great at becoming a character.

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