Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Do you have solid evidence, or are you are you considering your opinion or other left leaning opinions as fact? What makes Seth Rogan such an authority? Kyle is a hero for his service. All of them are regardless of their particular role or duty. I think the seals who took out Bin Laden are heros. I'm thankful for men as brave as he is. You mean aside from his own quotes from his own book regarding how he felt about the Iraqis? You mean besides the fact that Ventura won a court case over this? Have you not payed any attention to the whole Kyle story? What makes you an authority? Kyle is no hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 "We are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here" is in the top 10 of biggest crocks of shit I have ever laid eyes on. We are fighting them over there for many reasons, but our safety and security are not among them. 1) the American people need a boogeyman, otherwise we might complain about all the freedoms we are losing 2) defense contractors gotta get paid 3) HELLO, OIL? 4) opening markets to sell Coca-Cola, Marlboro, etc. 5) more I can't think of right now...need more coffee Does anyone here think that maybe by killing over 600,000 Iraqis it might have pissed off the remaining 36 million? Just a little bit? We are generating more enemies with our heavy-handed foreign policy than we would have otherwise. While all this is likely true FREEDOM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Kyle is no hero. I know I said I was going to jump out of the conversation. But I feel the need to jump back in for a moment. You're bias is showing. And you know you have bias. Kyle said "This was the first time I was going to have to kill someone. I didn't know whether I was going to be able to do it, man, woman or whatever. You're running everything through your mind. This is a woman, first of all. Second of all, am I clear to do this, is this right, is it justified?" Yeah what a psychopath. No conscience and just wanted to kill all the darkies! If for no other reason, he is a hero for helping others deal with PTSD. But I am sure your bias won't even allow you to acknowledge that. Carry on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I know I said I was going to jump out of the conversation. But I feel the need to jump back in for a moment. You're bias is showing. And you know you have bias. Kyle said "This was the first time I was going to have to kill someone. I didn't know whether I was going to be able to do it, man, woman or whatever. You're running everything through your mind. This is a woman, first of all. Second of all, am I clear to do this, is this right, is it justified?" Yeah what a psychopath. No conscience and just wanted to kill all the darkies! If for no other reason, he is a hero for helping others deal with PTSD. But I am sure your bias won't even allow you to acknowledge that. Carry on ... Which only goes to show my point regarding what war does to people and why I view him as not a hero but a tragic character and not a hero, because he said he wanted to kill more Iraqi's and that he viewed them as savages, those were his words not mine. As to any "bias", I don't pretend to not have bias against these wars, but my bias isn't with the soldiers, I just don't hero worship them like you do. You have your own biases too here. (I also didn't call him a psychopath, I called him a sociopath. There is a difference. And what is PTSD if not a brain injury? And what defines the symptoms of sociopathathy?) As to him helping former fellow soldiers with PTSD, that is admirable, but his methods are troublesome, I mean that is what got him killed. There are better ways to help than taking guys suffering from PTSD to a firing rage, I know I have friends who run charities that help soldiers, charities that I have given time and money to. I have no issue with helping soldiers that need help, we owe that to them for putting them in wars that they should never have been put in, but they still aren't heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|OneHeartBeat| Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Which only goes to show my point regarding what war does to people and why I view him as not a hero but a tragic character and not a hero, because he said he wanted to kill more Iraqi's and that he viewed them as savages, those were his words not mine. As to any "bias", I don't pretend to not have bias against these wars, but my bias isn't with the soldiers, I just don't hero worship them like you do. You have your own biases too here. (I also didn't call him a psychopath, I called him a sociopath. There is a difference. And what is PTSD if not a brain injury? And what defines the symptoms of sociopathathy?) As to him helping former fellow soldiers with PTSD, that is admirable, but his methods are troublesome, I mean that is what got him killed. There are better ways to help than taking guys suffering from PTSD to a firing rage, I know I have friends who run charities that help soldiers, charities that I have given time and money to. I have no issue with helping soldiers that need help, we owe that to them for putting them in wars that they should never have been put in, but they still aren't heroes. Sorry but you're wrong. They are heroes. Just because you may not agree with his methods of trying to help others overcome PTSD does not make his method wrong. But...carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sorry but you're wrong. They are heroes. Just because you may not agree with his methods of trying to help others overcome PTSD does not make his method wrong. But...carry on. No I am not wrong. His methods got him killed, how much more wrong could that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Which only goes to show my point regarding what war does to people and why I view him as not a hero but a tragic character and not a hero, because he said he wanted to kill more Iraqi's and that he viewed them as savages, those were his words not mine. As to any "bias", I don't pretend to not have bias against these wars, but my bias isn't with the soldiers, I just don't hero worship them like you do. You have your own biases too here. (I also didn't call him a psychopath, I called him a sociopath. There is a difference. And what is PTSD if not a brain injury? And what defines the symptoms of sociopathathy?) As to him helping former fellow soldiers with PTSD, that is admirable, but his methods are troublesome, I mean that is what got him killed. There are better ways to help than taking guys suffering from PTSD to a firing rage, I know I have friends who run charities that help soldiers, charities that I have given time and money to. I have no issue with helping soldiers that need help, we owe that to them for putting them in wars that they should never have been put in, but they still aren't heroes. I think it is very telling how you use his words against him to demonize him. Then in the same breath you use his words against him to call him a liar. Talk about cherry-picking to fit your narrative. And I suggest you look up the definition of hero. He wasn't a hero to you? OK. But to say he isn't a hero period is fatuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 No I am not wrong. Sure you are. An opinion is what you believe to be true. It doesn't mean just because you think it you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think it is very telling how you use his words against him to demonize him. Then in the same breath you use his words against him to call him a liar. Talk about cherry-picking to fit your narrative. And I suggest you look up the definition of hero. He wasn't a hero to you? OK. But to say he isn't a hero period is fatuous. I dont demonize him, I simply call a spade a spade here. You are hero worshiping, someone who really isnt all that clean. I dont have to use his words against him to call him a liar, the damned court case that Ventura won showed him to be a liar. That isnt up for debate, a court decided it. You can choose to debate that if you wish but you would be completely wrong because there were facts in a case that his estate lost showing he embellished those stories. That's on the public record. Sure you are. An opinion is what you believe to be true. It doesn't mean just because you think it you're right. It's not an opinion when it's a matter of public record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I dont demonize him, I simply call a spade a spade here. You are hero worshiping, someone who really isnt all that clean. I dont have to use his words against him to call him a liar, the damned court case that Ventura won showed him to be a liar. That isnt up for debate, a court decided it. You can choose to debate that if you wish but you would be completely wrong because there were facts in a case that his estate lost showing he embellished those stories. That's on the public record. Yes you do demonize him. Read it again. And again and again until you get it. No Jamie I am not hero worshipping. I don't worship any man. Nice try though. But he was a hero. To me and countless others. Doesn't mean there is any worship though. He was just a man that was an illustrious warrior. Accept it. So he embellished stories? Why is that only the case when you see fit? Because you are using some of his words as truth to condemn him as a sociopath and others to show he is a liar. But that's not demonizing him, is it? OK. I am done with this conversation again. Obviously it is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yes you do demonize him. Read it again. And again and again until you get it. No Jamie I am not hero worshipping. I don't worship any man. Nice try though. But he was a hero. To me and countless others. Doesn't mean there is any worship though. He was just a man that was an illustrious warrior. Accept it. So he embellished stories? Why is that only the case when you see fit? Because you are using some of his words as truth to condemn him as a sociopath and others to show he is a liar. But that's not demonizing him, is it? OK. I am done with this conversation again. Obviously it is pointless. Let's walk this back and see if you can keep up here. Do you know what PTSD is? Have you ever seen the face of it first hand from someone who went to war? Do you understand that it is a brain injury that people experience from war? Do you understand that sociopathy is something that one suffers from as a result of a brain injury? Do you realize that you dont ever really "beat" a brain injury? Calling Chris Kyle a sociopath based on his behaviors is clinical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Let's walk this back and see if you can keep up here. Do you know what PTSD is? Have you ever seen the face of it first hand from someone who went to war? Do you understand that it is a brain injury that people experience from war? Do you understand that sociopathy is something that one suffers from as a result of a brain injury? Do you realize that you dont ever really "beat" a brain injury? Calling Chris Kyle a sociopath based on his behaviors is clinical. PTSD, or Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, is a psychiatric disorder that can occur following the experience or witnessing of a life-threatening events such as military combat, natural disasters, terrorist incidents, serious accidents, or physical or sexual assault in adult or childhood. Most survivors of trauma return to normal given a little time. http://www.ptsd.ne.gov/what-is-ptsd.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I see you can google pretty well. Now I ask again, have you ever known or seen anyone who has experienced PTSD as a result of being at war first hand? It's a yes or no question, it isnt hard to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizno Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 "We are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here" is in the top 10 of biggest crocks of shit I have ever laid eyes on. We are fighting them over there for many reasons, but our safety and security are not among them. 1) the American people need a boogeyman, otherwise we might complain about all the freedoms we are losing 2) defense contractors gotta get paid 3) HELLO, OIL? 4) opening markets to sell Coca-Cola, Marlboro, etc. 5) more I can't think of right now...need more coffee Does anyone here think that maybe by killing over 600,000 Iraqis it might have pissed off the remaining 36 million? Just a little bit? We are generating more enemies with our heavy-handed foreign policy than we would have otherwise. Really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I see you can google pretty well. Now I ask again, have you ever known or seen anyone who has experienced PTSD as a result of being at war first hand? It's a yes or no question, it isnt hard to answer. I just seen you don't know what the hell you are talking about so I put it out there for you to educate yourself. By the way, you're welcome. And yes I have. Want me to expound on that answer or is it that enough? What the hell does that have to do with anything? It doesn't does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I just seen you don't know what the hell you are talking about so I put it out there for you to educate yourself. By the way, you're welcome. And yes I have. Want me to expound on that answer or is it that enough? What the hell does that have to do with anything? It doesn't does it? Then you should know that it's not something they ever really get away from, that they are ALWAYS watching over their backs and have those tendencies even in normal situations. They never return to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizno Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Any individual that had the balls to enlist in the Armed Forces knowing that they could potentially lose their life to fight for the freedoms that we all take for granted, is a Hero in my eyes. The Freedoms that even the pansy ass pussies that sit behind their keyboards and come up with every excuse in the book about why Chris Kyle isn't a Hero. Enjoy your day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Any individual that had the balls to enlist in the Armed Forces knowing that they could potentially lose their life to fight for the freedoms that we all take for granted, is a Hero in my eyes. The Freedoms that even the pansy ass pussies that sit behind their keyboards and come up with every excuse in the book about why Chris Kyle isn't a Hero. Enjoy your day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 We haven't been at war for freedom since WW2. The wars we have today are all geopolitic and fought for neoliberalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyInDC Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Really... Yes really. We should have stuck to taking out terrorist camps instead of a massive land invasion of a country that had NOTHING TO DO with 9/11. We would have been better off invading Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sorry but you're wrong. They are heroes. Just because you may not agree with his methods of trying to help others overcome PTSD does not make his method wrong. But...carry on. Is the guy who shot him a hero too? He served right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 So he embellished stories? Why is that only the case when you see fit? About killing people for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Is the guy who shot him a hero too? He served right? He used to be. About killing people for fun. You lost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Then you should know that it's not something they ever really get away from, that they are ALWAYS watching over their backs and have those tendencies even in normal situations. They never return to normal. This is simply not true. Yes really. We should have stuck to taking out terrorist camps instead of a massive land invasion of a country that had NOTHING TO DO with 9/11. We would have been better off invading Canada. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 but 9-11 had everything to do with how we should handle Iraq. They had terms of surrender that they never abided by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 If you dont think that's true you dont know many soldiers returning home from war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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