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Since the Patriots have been caught cheating, again...


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Tom Brady acted very much like a guilty man in that press conference.  I have no doubt he was in on this and that last weekend wasn't the first time it's happened.  

 

Drew Bledsoe is on TV right now, stuttering and stammering around trying to defend these assholes.  He sounds about as eloquent as Brady did yesterday.  I love how they rationalize and choose their words ever so carefully.

 

 

well, considering Brady answered the question "Is Tom Brady a cheater?" with "I don't think so" instead of "no"...

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I think this is has been an over inflated topic by Patriot haters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you.  Don't forget to tip your bartenders. 

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45-7

 

 

 

 

And people think that some slightly deflated or overly inflated balls are responsible for the Patriots winning? (George Carlin is in heaven now performing a bit on this hysterical nonsense)

 

There isn't am emoji in the world that can relay my internal laughter........

 

The conspiracy theorists are out in full force with this silly business

 

(Yes out of the hundreds of people who work for the Patriots some were probably behind tinkering with ball air............who fucking cares! You really think that's the only reason they've won? Every team, every person, in the NFL, and in life does things little and large to varying degrees in order to get ahead in life.)

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45-7

 

 

 

 

And people think that some slightly deflated or overly inflated balls are responsible for the Patriots winning? (George Carlin is in heaven now performing a bit on this hysterical nonsense)

 

There isn't am emoji in the world that can relay my internal laughter........

 

The conspiracy theorists are out in full force with this silly business

 

(Yes out of the hundreds of people who work for the Patriots some were probably behind tinkering with ball air............who fucking cares! You really think that's the only reason they've won? Every team, every person, in the NFL, and in life does things little and large to varying degrees in order to get ahead in life.)

35- 31 

 

And people think some slightly deflated balls didn't help Tom Brady at all as he threw 51 passes in a come from behind victory against the Ravens, in 20 degree weather, the week before.  

 

If this is your mindset then you must be a huge fan of the 1970s era Pittsburgh Steelers.  Heck almost everyone was using steroids so it didn't really matter.

 

They would not have deflated the balls to an ILLEGAL pressure just for shits and giggles as you seem to imply.

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45-7

 

 

 

 

And people think that some slightly deflated or overly inflated balls are responsible for the Patriots winning? (George Carlin is in heaven now performing a bit on this hysterical nonsense)

 

There isn't am emoji in the world that can relay my internal laughter........

 

The conspiracy theorists are out in full force with this silly business

 

(Yes out of the hundreds of people who work for the Patriots some were probably behind tinkering with ball air............who fucking cares! You really think that's the only reason they've won? Every team, every person, in the NFL, and in life does things little and large to varying degrees in order to get ahead in life.)

 

I agree, but the point is that they circumnavigated the rules.....once again.  There is a history there, there should be punishment.  Severe IMO, if the NFL is actually concerned about its integrity, or at least the perception of integrity.  How do you not punish or only give slap on wrist because the cheating was a low level cheating, or the cheating didn't have as much of an effect on the game as other methods....it's still cheating.  It's still breaking the rules (which is a dumb rule to begin with, but nonetheless, a rule).  There should be punishment.   I don't think however, that it had much if any effect on the results of the game.  Colts and Patriots have played 4 times the past 3 yrs and every time it was a Pats win by 20+ pts.  They're the better team.......that's why it's even more mind boggling that these tactics took place.  

 

For those of you who don't think Belicheck or Brady had anything to do with it, listen to Troy Aikman's take on it.  He's probably a little better connected to the NFL than people here so when he has an opinion on it, I tend to give that more legitimacy than message board ramblings.  

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Didn't deflate them against Ravens

When was it announced that they were NOT deflated against the Ravens?  It was my understanding that the RAVENS are the ones who tipped off the Colts about the New England balls being deflated to begin with. 

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I agree, but the point is that they circumnavigated the rules.....once again.  There is a history there, there should be punishment.  Severe IMO, if the NFL is actually concerned about its integrity, or at least the perception of integrity.  How do you not punish or only give slap on wrist because the cheating was a low level cheating, or the cheating didn't have as much of an effect on the game as other methods....it's still cheating.  It's still breaking the rules (which is a dumb rule to begin with, but nonetheless, a rule).  There should be punishment.   I don't think however, that it had much if any effect on the results of the game.  Colts and Patriots have played 4 times the past 3 yrs and every time it was a Pats win by 20+ pts.  They're the better team.......that's why it's even more mind boggling that these tactics took place.  

 

For those of you who don't think Belicheck or Brady had anything to do with it, listen to Troy Aikman's take on it.  He's probably a little better connected to the NFL than people here so when he has an opinion on it, I tend to give that more legitimacy than message board ramblings.  

I wouldn't be surprised if Bellicheat didn't know anything about it.  

 

Only an Ostrich would believe that Tom Brady knew nothing about it.  That would require you to believe that the equipment manager took air out of the footballs without any input from the one person in the stadium it would affect the most....Tom Brady.  That is a laughable leap of logic.

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Isn't there a big difference between an alleged organized group of people trying to injure and possibly end people's careers and a team changing the ball because they're QB likes it better that way? I think you're talking apples and oranges here.

 

Actually when you think about it, it makes what New England did even worse.  New Orleans didn't break the rules, or cheat.  It was never proven that they actually did put out bounties but even if they did, they didn't do it by cheating and it didn't give them an unfair advantage vs the other team.  Here are some more ramifications for you to look at.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2015/01/ballghazi_the_new_england_patriots_lose_an_insanely_low_number_of_fumbles.html?wpsrc=fol_fb

 

 

 

Dumb Luck The New England Patriots’ prevention of fumbles is nearly impossible.
 
 
461745522-legarrette-blount-of-the-new-eLeGarrette Blount of the New England Patriots runs with the ball against LaRon Landry of the Indianapolis Colts on Jan. 18, 2015, in Foxboro, Massachusetts.

Photo by Elsa/Getty Images

In light of the ball deflation scandal currently consuming the New England Patriots, football data analyst Warren Sharp looked at the Patriots’ recent fumble statistics and found some startling results. A slightly different version of this post first appeared onSharp’s own site. It is reprinted with his permission.

On Wednesday, I investigated whether the New England Patriots outperform expectations in bad weather and found that, yes, they do. Then I remembered this remarkable fact: The 2014 Patriots were just the third team in the last 25 years to never have lost a fumble at home! The biggest difference between the Patriots and the other two teams that did it was that New England ran between 150 and 200 moreplays this year than those teams, making the Patriots stand alone in this unique statistic. Based on the desire to incorporate full-season data (not just home games, as a team theoretically would bring “doctored footballs” with it on the road) I performed the following analysis:

150123_SNUT_Fumble-01.png.CROP.original-

Courtesy of Warren Sharp

I looked at the last five years of data and examined total fumbles lost in all games (as well as fumbles per game) and, more importantly, total offensive plays run. Thus, I was able to determine average plays per fumble lost. The results are displayed in the chart above. Keep in mind, this is for all games since 2010.

One can clearly see the Patriots, visually, are off the chart. There is no other team even close to being near to their rate of 187 offensive plays per fumble lost. The league average is 105 plays per fumble lost. Most teams are within 21 plays of that number.

I spoke with a data scientist whom I know from work on NFLproject.com and sent him the data.  He said:

Based on the assumption that fumbles per play follow a normal distribution, you’d expect to see, according to random fluctuation, the results that the Patriots have gotten over this period, once in 16,233.77 instances.

Which in layman’s terms means that this result only being a coincidence, is like winning a raffle where you have a 0.0000616 probability to win. [In] other words, it’s very unlikely that it’s a coincidence.

I actually went back and researched five-year periods for the entire NFL over the last 25 years. The Patriots’ ratio of 187 plays to 1 fumble lost is the best of any team in the NFL for any five-year span of time over the last 25 years. It wasn’t just the best—it wasn’t close:

1. 2010–2014 Patriots: 187 plays/fumble lost
2. 2009–2013 Patriots: 156 plays/fumble lost
3. 2006–2010 Colts: 156 plays/fumble lost
4.  2005–2009 Colts: 153 plays/fumble lost
5. 2007–2011 Patriots: 149 plays/fumble lost
6. 2008–2012 Patriots: 148 plays/fumble lost
7. 2010–2014 Texans: 140 plays/fumble lost
8. 2004–2008 Colts: 139 plays/fumble lost
9. 2006–2010 Jets: 135 plays/fumble lost
10. 1999–2003 Chiefs: 134 plays/fumble lost

There are a few key takeaways. First and foremost, the 187 plays per fumble lost dwarfs even the rest of the best seasons of the last 25 years. Second, the Patriots have been at the top of the NFL since 2007.

Ironically, as my study on Wednesday showed, the Patriots’ performance in wet weather home games mysteriously turned ridiculous starting in 2007. In 2006, they went 0–2. From 2007 onward, they went 14–1.

The next obvious question becomes: Where were the Patriots in this statistic pre-2007? Take a look:

150123_SNUT_Fumble-02.png.CROP.original-

Courtesy of Warren Sharp

As you can see, the Patriots won their Super Bowls having a below-average rate of fumbles lost given today’s average of 105 plays per fumble lost. But in 2007, something happened to propel them to a much better rate. (You’ll remember, that just so happened to be the same year they went 16–0 in the regular season.) But even looking at these numbers, it’s clear how insane the 187 number is: They are almost running 100 more plays without a single fumble as compared with the 2002–2006 period when they won two of their three Super Bowls.

To further illustrate how these numbers are astonishing, the below graphic lays out clearly how far off the Patriots are from the rest of the league. The Patriots and their 187 plays per fumble lost is far from the bell-shaped curve:

150123_SNUT_Fumble-03.png.CROP.original-

Courtesy of Warren Sharp

Here’s the same chart as the top one, this time displaying color bands as we move away from the 105 plays per fumble lost average. You can see the darker red band contains all teams but the bottom three and the top three and that the bottom three are very close to the darker red band. Meanwhile, the Patriots are really in a league of their own:

150123_SNUT_Fumble-04.png.CROP.original-

Courtesy of Warren Sharp

Looking at all fumbles, and not just fumbles lost, we come up with similar findings.

First, it should be noted that teams playing indoors fumble the ball less frequently, the foremost reason being that the ball won’t be wet from precipitation or damp from late-night condensation. The below graphic looks at all fumbles over five-year periods during the last 25 years. As you can see, of the top 25 team-periods, 17 are dome teams, including 11 of the top 15. 

150123_SNUT_Fumble-05.png.CROP.original-

Courtesy of Warren Sharp

As is apparent, the Patriots are the only outdoor NFL team in the last 25 years to average 70 plays per fumble or better. It’s simply uncanny, as the statistics above similarly showed.

The league average from 2010 to 2014 was 50 plays per fumble. For indoor teams, the average was 55 plays per fumble. For outdoor teams, excluding the Patriots, the average was 46 plays per fumble. The Patriots averaged 73 plays per fumble, almost 60 percent more than outdoor teams and almost 50 percent more than the league average the past five years.

150123_SNUT_Fumble-06.png.CROP.original-

Courtesy of Warren Sharp

As we can clearly see in both near-term and long-term data that dome-based teams (that play at least eight games out of the elements) have an advantage in the fumble department, we can exclude them from comparisons to the Patriots.

If we do, I can produce a chart nearly identical to the one at the very top that looked only at fumbles lost. This one looks at all fumbles, whether lost or recovered. I think the point still remains: 

150123_SNUT_Fumble-07.png.CROP.original-

Courtesy of Warren Sharp

Top Comment

Now I know we're going to hear all about the deflated ball made these stats possible, however the fact of the matter is Belickick simply tasers you for every fumble, recovered or not.  More...

-Lauren

137 CommentsJoin In

Could the Patriots be so good that they just defy the numbers? As my friend theorized: Perhaps they’ve invented a revolutionary in-house way to protect the ball, or perhaps they’ve intentionally stocked their skill positions with players who don’t have a propensity to fumble. Or perhaps, still, they call plays that intentionally result in a lower percentage of fumbles. Or maybe it’s just that they play with deflated footballs on offense. It could be any combination of the above.

But regardless of what, specifically, is causing these numbers, the fact remains: This is an extremely abnormal occurrence and is not simply random fluctuation.

 

Warren Sharp runs the football analytics site Sharp Football Analysis.

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45-7

 

 

 

 

And people think that some slightly deflated or overly inflated balls are responsible for the Patriots winning? (George Carlin is in heaven now performing a bit on this hysterical nonsense)

 

There isn't am emoji in the world that can relay my internal laughter........

 

The conspiracy theorists are out in full force with this silly business

 

(Yes out of the hundreds of people who work for the Patriots some were probably behind tinkering with ball air............who fucking cares! You really think that's the only reason they've won? Every team, every person, in the NFL, and in life does things little and large to varying degrees in order to get ahead in life.)

 

But some believe that they were doing it long.....before.....this.....one.....game.  It's not necessarily about this one game.  They beat the Jets by two points and by one point.  Even in the other games that were wider point spreads, we've all seen how one or two big plays can make the difference between a win and a blowout loss.  What's to say they wouldn't have ended up 10-6 if they'd played by the rules, and then been on the road for their second and third playoff games instead of in Foxboro for two?  Given that they only barely got by the Ravens, at home, and while possibly cheating, a case could be made that they wouldn't be in the Super Bowl if they had followed the rules.

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When was it announced that they were NOT deflated against the Ravens?  It was my understanding that the RAVENS are the ones who tipped off the Colts about the New England balls being deflated to begin with. 


Probably the same time they announced they were.
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But some believe that they were doing it long.....before.....this.....one.....game.  It's not necessarily about this one game.  They beat the Jets by two points and by one point.  Even in the other games that were wider point spreads, we've all seen how one or two big plays can make the difference between a win and a blowout loss.  What's to say they wouldn't have ended up 10-6 if they'd played by the rules, and then been on the road for their second and third playoff games instead of in Foxboro for two?  Given that they only barely got by the Ravens, at home, and while possibly cheating, a case could be made that they wouldn't be in the Super Bowl if they had followed the rules.


A case can't be made when you start off with pure speculation. Who's to say? Lol.

I think the Colts cheated to beat us in the playoffs, who's to say they didn't?
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A case can't be made when you start off with pure speculation. Who's to say? Lol.

I think the Colts cheated to beat us in the playoffs, who's to say they didn't?

 

The league has only announced that they checked the Patriots balls ingame once this season. The Pats were caught with 12 illegal balls and 11 of the 12 at 10.5 psi or less. Given that they've been caught cheating 100% of the time they were checked, I think it's entirely reasonable to think they cheated in other games where they weren't checked. A softer ball certainly could have been the difference in the Ravens game.

 

It's also worth noting that Tony Dungy pointed out that when using their eligible/ineligible substitution game vs the Ravens, Shane Vereen reported ineligible then didn't leave the field before lining up at an eligible position on the next play. That should have been a 15 yard penalty rather than a completed pass but the officials were confused and missed it.

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Of course they cheated.

 

All that's left is to decide what type of punishment would be fitting.

 

I suggest the NFL demand all doors at Patriots headquarters be removed and replaced with new doors that are only six feet tall.

 

A constant reminder of that franchises decades old comittment of stooping to greatness.

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I'll still bet that the end result will be :

"Some equipment dude took it upon themselves to deflate the balls, without knowledge or request from any member of the Patriots playing staff or coaching staff. We never realised at all, honest guv, so we've sacked that person who entirely acted of their own volition".

Followed by the NFL saying

"As nobody from the Pats knew, because we asked and they said no, we are satisfied that with the sacking of Jobless Bob the matter is closed".

 

As for those saying they'd have beaten the Colts anyway, that's missing the point massively. Win, lose or draw, cheating is cheating.

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I'll still bet that the end result will be :

"Some equipment dude took it upon themselves to deflate the balls, without knowledge or request from any member of the Patriots playing staff or coaching staff. We never realised at all, honest guv, so we've sacked that person who entirely acted of their own volition".

Followed by the NFL saying

"As nobody from the Pats knew, because we asked and they said no, we are satisfied that with the sacking of Jobless Bob the matter is closed".

 

As for those saying they'd have beaten the Colts anyway, that's missing the point massively. Win, lose or draw, cheating is cheating.

 

 

Nobody thinks some underinflated balls kept th Colts from winning. The Colts are not the issue here. Cheating is the issue.

Or is cheating ok so long as you win convincingly enough?

 

:41: :41: :41: :41:

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45-7
 
 
No one thinks that. They just think bellichecks a cheating asshole and if he did this now why wouldn't he do it last week when they barely won.
 
 
And people think that some slightly deflated or overly inflated balls are responsible for the Patriots winning? (George Carlin is in heaven now performing a bit on this hysterical nonsense)
 
There isn't am emoji in the world that can relay my internal laughter........
 
The conspiracy theorists are out in full force with this silly business
 
(Yes out of the hundreds of people who work for the Patriots some were probably behind tinkering with ball air............who fucking cares! You really think that's the only reason they've won? Every team, every person, in the NFL, and in life does things little and large to varying degrees in order to get ahead in life.)


No one thinks that. They just think bellichecks a cheating asshole and if he did this now why wouldn't he do it last week when they barely won.
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It's also worth noting that Tony Dungy pointed out that when using their eligible/ineligible substitution game vs the Ravens, Shane Vereen reported ineligible then didn't leave the field before lining up at an eligible position on the next play. That should have been a 15 yard penalty rather than a completed pass but the officials were confused and missed it.

That doesn't make sense, because when ineligible players lineup eligible, the MUST report every play even if it's consecutive plays.   Seems to me the opposite would be true also.  

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In further developements....

 

The Patriots INTERNAL investigation showed NO  wrong doing on the part of the Patriots.    Well, .......that pretty much seals the deal for me.  I mean they wouldn't cheat AND lie as those actions are mutually exclusive are they not?

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Actually when you think about it, it makes what New England did even worse.  New Orleans didn't break the rules, or cheat.  It was never proven that they actually did put out bounties but even if they did, they didn't do it by cheating and it didn't give them an unfair advantage vs the other team.  Here are some more ramifications for you to look at.http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2015/01/ballghazi_the_new_england_patriots_lose_an_insanely_low_number_of_fumbles.html?wpsrc=fol_fb


BJGE had 0 fumbles on 902 possesions as a Patriot, and then 5 on 524 possessions as a Bengal. Coincidence?
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