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2015 Season Thread

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Looks like we got a couple of potential arms.  Not a bad haul.  Would like to see them flip Bruce for Wheeler if they could possibly pull that one off.  Sounds like they asking price for Chapman is too high for most teams.  I wouldn't be surprised if he's an off-season trade.

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http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/07/royals-to-acquire-johnny-cueto.html

 

The Reds announced that Johnny Cueto has been traded to the Royals for left-handed pitchers Brandon Finnegan, John Lamb, and Cody Reed.  The Reds are also sending cash considerations to KC, according to the Royals’ press release.

 

Cueto, 29, is months from his first shot at free agency, and the fourth-place Reds were been rumored to be shopping him for a while now. Along with the Royals, the Dodgers and Blue Jays were among teams that have been connected to Cueto. However, KC has come out on top.

 

 

Jamie - at least you got to see him pitch in DC, and in a real baseball game.  :)

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Bye Johnny.  You were a fun pitcher to watch the past few years.

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After more info emerges, looks like the top two guys project to relief pitchers.  Sounds like Reed is the real wild card.

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But hey we've still got Homer Bailey! Reminds me of the kid that used to deliver my paper which is much better than having an ace on the pitching staff.  

 

I was at Cueto's first game as a Red.  Pretty fuckin disappointed over here, if that's not apparent.  Could've kept him around if it wasn't for a bunch of bloated contracts.  Now the guy who wrote them is supposed to rebuild the team? Meh.  Can we trade ol' wrinkly-ass Wally back to the Cards?

 

Still a good infield & Hamilton is fun to watch but has dropped to the bottom of the lineup.

 

Anyone else is fair game IMO. Guess this means Leake is off the block? Maybe they get a good start out of Iglesias tonight & go on a run.

 

:pointlaff:

 

They are who we thought they were. C'mon, training camp.

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But hey we've still got Homer Bailey! Reminds me of the kid that used to deliver my paper which is much better than having an ace on the pitching staff.  

 

I was at Cueto's first game as a Red.  Pretty fuckin disappointed over here, if that's not apparent.  Could've kept him around if it wasn't for a bunch of bloated contracts.  Now the guy who wrote them is supposed to rebuild the team? Meh.  Can we trade ol' wrinkly-ass Wally back to the Cards?

 

Still a good infield & Hamilton is fun to watch but has dropped to the bottom of the lineup.

 

Anyone else is fair game IMO. Guess this means Leake is off the block? Maybe they get a good start out of Iglesias tonight & go on a run.

 

:pointlaff:

 

They are who we thought they were. C'mon, training camp.

 

If Krivsky was never unfairly fired. I truly believe this team has a ring. He knew how to draft and run a small market team. God I wish we could have seen him finish what he started.

 

I have no faith in Walt developing a new competitive team. I really don't see this team being competitive for the remainder of Votto's contract.

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I don't get it. The thing that's most valuable in baseball is starting pitching, and we had a fucking ace. Yeah his contract would've been massive, but we paid Homer the Horrible like he was Rijo.

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Cueto may possibly be looking at triple or close to triple what Homer got.  We would have essentially had two guys making 3/5ths of the payroll in Votto and Cueto if we re-signed him.  I imagine that contract is not going to look so good as Johnny gets older.  He's already had some bouts with injuries and it probably won't get any better as he gets older/heavier.  I just kind of wish we would have gotten rid of him after Kelly Gregg blew like 4 straight games.  The season was over before summer started with all the injuries that had already occurred.

 

I don't see how they are competitive in the next few years either.  I'd sell, sell, sell.  No one untouchable.  Not Billy, Mes, or Todd.  As a matter of fact, I'd look to move Todd and Chapman now that they are controllable for 1+ years.

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I don't get it. The thing that's most valuable in baseball is starting pitching, and we had a fucking ace. Yeah his contract would've been massive, but we paid Homer the Horrible like he was Rijo.

Royals were best team in baseball without an ace. Aces don't win. Clutch players do.

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Royals were best team in baseball without an ace. Aces don't win. Clutch players do.

 

 

Nonsense, pitching is paramount. But you need players who dont leave guys stranded on bases with no runs either. That has been why the Reds haven't been able to win, they give their pitching ZERO run support. You need both.

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The votto signing is what sent us down this path. Not his fault, but Bob and walts.

The cards let one of the best baseball players of our generation in his prime walk because it's the right move for a mid market team. They were in a very similar position with Pujols. Even though Pujols is still very good, if he was getting 26M a year from the cards do you think they would be the best team in the majors now? I highly doubt they would be able to field the same team they currently are. Probably would have had to trade guys or let guys walk.

We did the opposite and it has completely back fired. I love Votto but the right move would have been to let him walk or trade him for a boat load of talent. A team with a 100M payroll can't pay one guy 25M of that.

The Bailey deal just ended up making things worse.

The votto Pujols situation is the prime reason we are near the basement and cards are near the top.

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Yep. Votto is what has killed us. I'm glad we kept Phillips, but Votto imo just hasnt played up to that contract. The Bailey deal was flat out stupid, that was the deal that soured me on Jockety.

 

And it's not the first time the Reds have paid for a guy that hampered their ability to do anything else.

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2015 salaries

Votto 14M
Phillips 12M

One is performing this year, the other isn't.

Votto hasn't hurt us yet. Probably will, but hard to blame him for current struggles. Also, his contract average is 22.5, not the 25 everyone says. Payroll is about 115M as well.

Cards offered pujols 210M... Worked out for them that they lost the bidding, but they certainly tried.

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2015 salaries

Votto 14M
Phillips 12M

One is performing this year, the other isn't.

Votto hasn't hurt us yet. Probably will, but hard to blame him for current struggles. Also, his contract average is 22.5, not the 25 everyone says. Payroll is about 115M as well.

Cards offered pujols 210M... Worked out for them that they lost the bidding, but they certainly tried.

But it's vottos deal (and baikeys) that is preventing us from signing cueto long term, not Phillips.

Yes votto is playing up to his contract this year, but when budgeting for the future they have to take into account his massive contract and that's why we can't afford to keep our guys.

Even without his contract that you still can't give cueto 7 yrs 150 mil. Teams like the Reds just can't afford to give out 100M deals, let alone 2 or 3.

Best thing to do is let a guy play his first 3/4 years. Prior to Arb offer him a 4/5 year extension. If he guys is still all star caliber nearing the end of that deal and in the 30-32 range, let him walk or trade him. Don't give him huge money.

That's what we did with cueto, Bruce and are currently doing with Frazier. I say let Todd play the next year or two and if he's still elite you have to consider trading or letting walk when his contact is up. If we give Todd a huge deal it will be dumb even though I really like him.

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I tend to agree with JB

 

The fact that you have no salary cap kills teams like us, you have to play small ball, and when guys get elite trade them for prospects and hope the stars align at the right time for when you are getting talent that is blossoming and talent that is still under contract but reaching elite status. We had that in 2012 and had Cueto not got hurt in the playoffs I really feel this team would have played in the WS.

 

Best thing we can do now is offload talent and get prospects. I hate it, we will suffer for a few years while the farm league is restocked and developed, but that's the nature of a mid to small market team.

 

It's why baseball needs a salary cap.

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But it's vottos deal (and baikeys) that is preventing us from signing cueto long term, not Phillips.

Yes votto is playing up to his contract this year, but when budgeting for the future they have to take into account his massive contract and that's why we can't afford to keep our guys.

Even without his contract that you still can't give cueto 7 yrs 150 mil. Teams like the Reds just can't afford to give out 100M deals, let alone 2 or 3.

Best thing to do is let a guy play his first 3/4 years. Prior to Arb offer him a 4/5 year extension. If he guys is still all star caliber nearing the end of that deal and in the 30-32 range, let him walk or trade him. Don't give him huge money.

That's what we did with cueto, Bruce and are currently doing with Frazier. I say let Todd play the next year or two and if he's still elite you have to consider trading or letting walk when his contact is up. If we give Todd a huge deal it will be dumb even though I really like him.

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd argue more that the Bailey contract cost them Cueto. They had their choice between them and Latos, chose the wrong guy.  I think I'm in agreement about huge LTC in general... they so rarely work for anyone.

 

Sadly we haven't developed many young guys lately. Have any of the prospects we traded away really done anything either? Just poor drafting.

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Anyone notice we took 2/3 from the Cards, blanking them on both wins?  That was nice.  Phillips does nothing in the field except make unbelievable plays.

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Not sure about baseball needing a salary cap. They don't really work and are mainly fake anyway. Why would you take, for example, 5y/$100m from the Reds and do adverts for Kroger and UDF Ice Cream when you can take 5y/80m from the Jets or similar and make treble that in endorsements?

 

All I've ever seen from salary cap sports are small market teams losing their players to bigger teams and the same few franchises always winning.

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In the NFL salary cap works, Baltimore who won the Superbowl just 3 years ago is about the same size as Cincinnati.

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In the NFL salary cap works, Baltimore who won the Superbowl just 3 years ago is about the same size as Cincinnati.


Bigger reason why it wouldn't work is each team does individual TV deals compared to the NFL it's a league wide TV deal.

If the dodgers get a 300M a year TV deal and the Brewers get a 50M TV deal, how can they be expected to have the same payroll? lets say the cap is 100M in this scenario, the Brewers probably couldn't get close because they only get 50M from their TV deal. And do the Dodgers owners then just get to pocket that extra 200M? Or do you do a profit sharing plan where dodgers have to share that 300M with smaller clubs even though it's your team and company's deal? (And I know it's not that simple math and a lot more goes into it, but point still stands).


I just don't think t would work personally.

What I would like to see are non guaranteed contracts similar to NFL. So maybe we paid votto 10 yrs 225M but instead of fully guaranteed maybe 100 was guaranteed. That way if we cut him we wouldn't be on the hook for the full 225. It would give teams like the Reds a lot more flexibility.

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Bigger reason why it wouldn't work is each team does individual TV deals compared to the NFL it's a league wide TV deal.

If the dodgers get a 300M a year TV deal and the Brewers get a 50M TV deal, how can they be expected to have the same payroll? lets say the cap is 100M in this scenario, the Brewers probably couldn't get close because they only get 50M from their TV deal. And do the Dodgers owners then just get to pocket that extra 200M? Or do you do a profit sharing plan where dodgers have to share that 300M with smaller clubs even though it's your team and company's deal? (And I know it's not that simple math and a lot more goes into it, but point still stands).


I just don't think t would work personally.

What I would like to see are non guaranteed contracts similar to NFL. So maybe we paid votto 10 yrs 225M but instead of fully guaranteed maybe 100 was guaranteed. That way if we cut him we wouldn't be on the hook for the full 225. It would give teams like the Reds a lot more flexibility.

 

Yeah, I would agree with this. The NFL is a national game with national underpinnings; the interest runs high regardless of the geographic location(s) allowing for large national TV contracts. The interest is there regardless of the teams. Baseball is a national game with regional underpinnings. The level of interest is regional and varies greatly depending on local population. There just aren't enough people nationwide that give enough of a shit about the Reds or the Brewers to make national TV contracts feasible. Add in the number of games and it makes it virtually impossible...

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Tomorrow could be interesting.  If the Mets flip Wheeler for Bruce we may be able to get out of our all or nothing in the run scoring department.  Of course we would have to find two more corner outfielders for next year, but we would have three pretty good pitchers next year.

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FYI heard something like Cardinals signed a billion dollar TV deal starting in 2018

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