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The US and the policy not to negotiate


Guest BlackJesus

What if a terrorist had a Nuke on US soil should we still not even talk to them ???  

6 members have voted

  1. 1. What if a terrorist had a Nuke on US soil should we still not even talk to them ???

    • Yes, we don't negotiate with terrorists plain and simple, if they have a Nuke and set it off we'll have to take the loss
      1
    • No, if they get that far you have to talk to them and at least see what they want... when millions of lives are on the line it is idiotic to take the macho route
      5


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Guest BlackJesus
[i][b]Right now the U.S. has a policy that we will not negotiate with Terrorists.....

(although Reagen proved with Iran Contra this can always be broken)

Nevertheless... I think this policy is insufficent in a nuclear age....

for instance if the US has credible evidence that a terrorist group like Al Qaeda has a nuclear weapon in a large US city.... it would be idiotic to just say "sorry we don't negotiate with terrorists" and let the place go up. Especially if the demands are not that great. For instance if Al Qaeda got a Nuke and had it in a US city and claimed that they would give up the nuke in exchange for US withdrawl from Iraq .... the US should def take that deal. Would it be smarter to watch Manhattan and its 15,000,000 inhabitants be incenerated????[/b][/i]

[img]http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/al-qaeda-nuke-01.jpg[/img]
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Guest steggyD
Not only inhabitants, but those who are in Manhattan very often, such as I. To be honest, after the recent actions in London, I am almost afraid to go down there anymore.
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[quote name='BlackJesus' date='Aug 4 2005, 12:07 PM'][i][b]Right now the U.S. has a policy that we will not negotiate with Terrorists.....

(although Reagen proved with Iran Contra this can always be broken)

Nevertheless... I think this policy is insufficent in a nuclear age....

for instance if the US has credible evidence that a terrorist group like Al Qaeda has a nuclear weapon in a large US city.... it would be idiotic to just say "sorry we don't negotiate with terrorists" and let the place go up.  Especially if the demands are not that great.  For instance if Al Qaeda got a Nuke and had it in a US city and claimed that they would give up the nuke in exchange for US withdrawl from Iraq .... the US should def take that deal.  Would it be smarter to watch Manhattan and its 15,000,000 inhabitants be incenerated????[/b][/i]

[img]http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/al-qaeda-nuke-01.jpg[/img]
[right][post="124380"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

Everything is situational i am pretty sure they would negotiate if a nuke was set up in down town manhantan. But u said it urself. Rules are made to be bent and broken sometimes.
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Guest bengalrick
it sounds great on paper bj, to go ahead and negotiate to terrorists or al qaeda, but what the hell are they going to ask for??? what did they ask for when they hijacked 4 planes in 2001? not a damn thing... they don't want THINGS they want us dead and to be able to oppress the world w/ their own religion and culture... thats what amazes me about your stances on these extremists... they are motivated by their religion... why would you even try to understand them when you absolutely won't try to understand christianity??

and btw, a better word for negotiate would be appease... did a lot of good for the UK...
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[quote name='Ben' date='Aug 4 2005, 12:36 PM']I would just call this guy:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/adaira/misc/KieferSutherland_JackBauer.jpg[/img]
[right][post="124416"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


Best show on TV!!!
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[quote name='bengalrick' date='Aug 4 2005, 03:44 PM']it sounds great on paper bj, to go ahead and negotiate to terrorists or al qaeda, but what the hell are they going to ask for??? what did they ask for when they hijacked 4 planes in 2001? not a damn thing... they don't want THINGS they want us dead and to be able to oppress the world w/ their own religion and culture... thats what amazes me about your stances on these extremists... they are motivated by their religion... why would you even try to understand them when you absolutely won't try to understand christianity??

and btw, a better word for negotiate would be appease... did a lot of good for the UK...
[right][post="124619"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


The steelers suck ass ones who dont know how to read are motivated by their Religon or lack of knowledege of the true meaning of it, rather they follow blindly what they are told because they know no better, the ones running the show are motivated by power and land.


Edit: This thing with the certin word I cant say because it changes, has to change, I use that word alot... the cuddly wuddly teddy bear one can stay though
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[quote name='bengalrick' date='Aug 4 2005, 03:52 PM']did i miss something?? what changes to steelers?? do your best ot tell me b/c i have no idea...
[right][post="124628"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]


I gnorant changes to steelers suck ass.
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Guest bengalrick
[quote name='Jamie_B' date='Aug 4 2005, 03:00 PM']I gnorant changes to steelers suck ass.
[right][post="124635"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

damn.. that could suck...
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Guest bengalrick
[quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Aug 4 2005, 08:07 PM']Why did we get kicked out of Uzbekistan?
[right][post="124873"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

[url="http://www.forbes.com/prnewswire/feeds/prnewswire/2005/08/04/prnewswire200508041708PR_NEWS_B_NWT_SF_SFTH090.html"]click here[/url]

[quote]In the last 18 months, Uzbekistan has seen a crackdown on foreign non-governmental organizations, especially those supporting the development of democracy. [b]The Uzbek authorities may fear a repeat of the popular uprisings that recently brought down governments in Georgia, Ukraine and Kyrgyzstan.[/b][/quote]

gov't is scared shitless.. frankly, i don't blame them...

heres an article from july 12th, that says that they are ready for a "violent regime change" [url="http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=1501"]click here[/url]

[quote][b]Is Uzbekistan Headed for Regime Change?[/b]

Jeffrey Donovan


Following the unrest in the Uzbek city of Andijon in mid-May, there is growing speculation about the future of Uzbek President Islam Karimov. And this week, a major essay in the British journal "Jane's Intelligence Review" argues that "Uzbekistan is now spiraling irretrievably towards violent regime change." Such an upheaval, the piece says, could leave in its bloody wake a "failed state" with continued violence driven by "an ugly cocktail of ethnicity, revenge, disparities of wealth, clan interests, organized crime, foreign interference, and religious extremism."

Filip Noubel is the Central Asia program director for the London-based Institute for War and Peace Reporting. He spoke with RFE/RL on 30 June, a day after Karimov was in Moscow to visit Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"There is a lot of warning going on in Andijon: people are still being arrested, relatives of victims, a lot of journalists and human rights activists have been harassed. So obviously, the regime is not looking at any kind of compromise. And Karimov's trip to Moscow and Putin's declarations are a clear indication that it's not going toward any form of compromise.[b] On the other hand, the people of Uzbekistan do not want to put up with this system any more.[/b] [b]So really the only alternative is actually very strong confrontation," Noubel said. [/b]

[b]During his Moscow visit, Karimov said the Andijon unrest was planned and financed from abroad. Putin backed that position. [/b]

[b]The unsigned "Jane's" essay rejects the idea that the events in Andijon were planned abroad or involved Islamic militants. It says the events were the climax of months of pent-up frustrations and nationwide protests. "There is probably nothing beyond socioeconomic conditions that connects the various manifestations of instability," the piece says. [/b]

[b]It goes on to state that "it is likely that the country is now beyond a point where the government can control unrest using violence, although this will not stop it trying." [/b]

Karimov's regime currently has unchallenged control of the country's security forces, which include an extensive intelligence service. Opposition groups have yet to produce a unifying leader and are divided between parties advocating peaceful change and armed militant groups.

Analysts such as Noubel interviewed by RFE/RL largely agreed that Uzbekistan is fast approaching a major crisis. But not all of them appeared to agree that Karimov's regime is necessarily heading toward a violent end.

Alain Deletroz is vice president of the International Crisis Group, an organization that works on conflict prevention. In an interview with RFE/RL's Uzbek Service, Deletroz rejected the idea that the unrest in Uzbekistan has anything to do with plots from abroad.

Deletroz said a possible way for Karimov to avoid further bloodshed and retain power as well is to allow modest economic and political reforms.

"What the U.S. and the Russians can do and should do is push Mr. Karimov into a corner and tell him, 'Now, if you want collaboration with us, you have to implement a few reforms.' I don't believe that [someone from abroad can decide] about coming in and taking power. You can do that only if you are ready to put your army in the country, which the United States has done in Iraq, and you see that the result is not that brilliant," Deletroz said.

Still, some analysts say reforms might not unseat Karimov so much as help him retain power. Martha Brill Olcott, a Central Asia expert with Washington's Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, made that point this way in a recent interview with RFE/RL's Azerbaijani Service.

"If he has economic reform, and some degree of political opening, then I think the West will reverse its position and he will manage to retain power and could well avert cataclysm. The question you're really asking is what will happen if he's isolated and if he does not have economic reform in any way and if there are more popular protests. Well, then, at a certain point, force will become less viable as an option, but it's very hard to say at what point that becomes true," Olcott said.

Deletroz, meanwhile, suggests that Karimov could find a way out of his predicament by copying former Russian President Boris Yeltsin, who unexpectedly announced Putin as his successor at the end of 1999. "One of the ways out would be if Mr. Karimov at some point would try to prepare a successor for himself, a little bit the way Yeltsin has done in Russia -- a younger man with a better understanding of the century in which we are all living, the 21st century, and a better understanding of where the heavyweights are," Deletroz said.

Deletroz adds that there are people in the Uzbek government and bureaucracy who could run the country, if given the chance.

Noubel, who spoke with RFE/RL from his base in Bishkek, says one other way change might occur is through a rebellion of senior officials. "I think the entire question -- but of course it's a very secret world, quite dark, very divided among clans and personal ambitions -- is whether there will be enough people around Karimov who will say: 'We don't want to be associated with Karimov any more. If the regime changes, we have to think about the future, then maybe we should think about an alliance and maybe reach out to some outside opposition.' That's sort of a more optimistic possibility," Noubel said.

But even if that happens, the essay in "Jane's" predicts that powerful Uzbek elites are likely to press any new leader to stop reforms that negatively impact their interests. In that case, the piece concludes, "It will be difficult for Uzbekistan to avoid becoming a failed state." (RFE/RL's Uzbek and Azerbaijani services contributed to this report. Originally published on 30 June.)


Copyright © 2005. RFE/RL, Inc. Reprinted with the permission of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, 1201 Connecticut Ave., N.W. Washington DC 20036. www.rferl.org

2005-07-12 11:24:45

Updated 24/7 - 365 days
Journal of Turkish Weekly is an ISRO (USAK) publication
ISRO is an Ankara based NGO[/quote]
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