Randle P McMurphy Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 "Death by Lethal Injection". http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/16/us/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-death-sentence.html?_r=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 This is just so sad all around. Such a tremendous waste of life and promise. Because of my spiritual beliefs I am against capital punishment, so for me, this simply adds to the tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Yes. I can think of better punishments than that don't involve wasting tax payer dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I think the death penalty in this case is completely justified and actually saves taxpayer dollars by not housing and feeding this waste of space for the rest of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I think the death penalty in this case is completely justified and actually saves taxpayer dollars by not housing and feeding this waste of space for the rest of his life. I am 100% positive this is wrong. Here's an article from Forbes about this. “It’s 10 times more expensive to kill them than to keep them alive,”says Donald McCartin, known as The Hanging Judge of Orange County. McCartin knows a little bit about executions: he has sent nine men to death row...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I am 100% positive this is wrong. As I typed it I was thinking about the costs of the lengthy appeals process, the costs to house and feed this dirtbag during that process, how long it really takes to put someone to death as they languish on death row forever...maybe you're right. But I'm pleased that a very liberal state like Massachusetts decided to end this scumbag's life. What he did is reprehensible, unforgivable and worthy of the death penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 As I typed it I was thinking about the costs of the lengthy appeals process, the costs to house and feed this dirtbag during that process, how long it really takes to put someone to death as they languish on death row forever...maybe you're right. But I'm pleased that a very liberal state like Massachusetts decided to end this scumbag's life. What he did is reprehensible, unforgivable and worthy of the death penalty. I agree. I think however that the death penalty serves no purpose other to satisfy some sort of sense of vengeance. But I am happy to simply disagree with you on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickyCat Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 In this case (& other terrorist cases) I think the death penalty is clearly justified. There was no way any US court was not gonna give that sentence to a terrorist that performed his deed on American soil. These cases are obviously more about sending the message that terrorist acts on our soil will simply not be tolerated whatsoever and not necessarily about getting justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 In this case (& other terrorist cases) I think the death penalty is clearly justified. There was no way any US court was not gonna give that sentence to a terrorist that performed his deed on American soil. These cases are obviously more about sending the message that terrorist acts on our soil will simply not be tolerated whatsoever and not necessarily about getting justice. Well then we can all rest easy knowing that executing some brainwashed teenager will end terrorism forever. What a relief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 In this case (& other terrorist cases) I think the death penalty is clearly justified. There was no way any US court was not gonna give that sentence to a terrorist that performed his deed on American soil. These cases are obviously more about sending the message that terrorist acts on our soil will simply not be tolerated whatsoever and not necessarily about getting justice. There is simply no evidence that capital punishment is a deterrent to violent crime. You think these guys didn't know we were going to kill their asses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 I have no problem with this guy being put to death. To me jail is to rehabilitate people so they can one day rejoin society after they paid their debt. Why keep someone locked up for the rest of their life? What's to keep them from killing while in prison? Or spreading their hate? I don't understand why he would get an appeal when his lawyers said he did it when the trail started. They should make him sit on a pressure cooker bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickyCat Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Well then we can all rest easy knowing that executing some brainwashed teenager will end terrorism forever. What a relief!No it won't end terrorism. I just can see the reasoning behind executing people who commit terrorist acts on American soil. It's much more about sending the message than it is vengance. There is simply no evidence that capital punishment is a deterrent to violent crime. You think these guys didn't know we were going to kill their asses? Right or wrong (not the issue) but say the United States chopped off the hands of people who steal. Would that end people theiving? No, but it surely would lesson the percentages of those that attempt to do so. Same concept with terrorism acts on American Soil, do it & you will die. Whether you care if you die for doing it is irrelevant. Its strictly the message sent (the right one imo) that attacking our home will not be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 No it won't end terrorism. I just can see the reasoning behind executing people who commit terrorist acts on American soil. It's much more about sending the message than it is vengance. Right or wrong (not the issue) but say the United States chopped off the hands of people who steal. Would that end people theiving? No, but it surely would lesson the percentages of those that attempt to do so. Same concept with terrorism acts on American Soil, do it & you will die. Whether you care if you die for doing it is irrelevant. Its strictly the message sent (the right one imo) that attacking our home will not be tolerated. You mean if you altered an offense punishable by a fine into a life changing event people might think twice? Well no shit. If we make speeding tickets punishable by life in prison people won;t do that either. I speed because I don't give a shit if I get caught and pay a fine. But we aren't writing tickets for murder, or even making people do some community service. Getting punished for murder will already ruin your life completely. Anyone doing it either doesn't care about the consequences or thinks they won't get caught. Making the penalty stiffer doesn't change that dynamic. It's ok. I'm completely comfortable with this not being a popular opinion. People get angry about this kind of shit (rightly so), and it makes them feel better to think someone will suffer for it. I get it. I just don't share the sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Montana Bengal| Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Probably better in this part of the forum.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 No it won't end terrorism. I just can see the reasoning behind executing people who commit terrorist acts on American soil. It's much more about sending the message than it is vengance. What message would that be? Change your name to something less foreign-sounding and use a gun if you don't want to be executed? Besides which, Tsarnaev wants to be martyred. If it was about punishment make him die in obscurity. Ultimately I'm not very sympathetic in either case but what troubles me is whether he's being executed for the crime or for his ideology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm more callous I guess than some of you. Of course he should be put to death, and T-Dub, so should people like Jared Loughner, and James Holmes. Anyone who kills multiple innocent people. Actually, anyone who kills even one innocent person if it's done intentionally and with malice. If it costs more to put someone to death than to house them for life, we're doing it wrong. Some people commit acts so heinous that it is the responsibility of a civilized society to end their life. Like Charles Barkley said, if he was elected governor, there wouldn't be a death row, there would be a death week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickyCat Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Besides which, Tsarnaev wants to be martyred. If it was about punishment make him die in obscurity. I don't disagree that he wants to be a martyr. My wife is now an ex and my kids are now grown but I will put it this way..... Back when we all lived in the happy house (our family space/domain) if someone walked into our home and into the kids playroom, set off some device that killed them and as he was headed out the door I got the chance to come upon him I would have zero problems blowing that mofo's head clean off. Dead as a door nail. I wouldn't care what his cause or in who's name his purpose was for doing it. Now once that story hit the news 'the message' was sent, if you bust into SnickyCat's house and kill his family members and are caught your ass will die. The United States is sending this same 'message', if you committ acts of terrorism on American soil (the homeland/domain), killing citizens (family) that the country is to protect then your ass is gonna die. To the government it is no longer simply an issue of punishment, it is a 'message' that they are sending....to anyone in the world thinking of doing similar and to their own citizens saying these acts will not be tolerated. And when these terrorist acts hit the news, usually globally, the US has sent their 'message'. Now maybe you feel differently, and maybe if you caught the guy that killed your family members you would be comfortable just holding him until the cops came and knowing that he would live in a prison the rest of his life....that is your right. And maybe if someone in your family while walking a street in your country was blown up in an act of terrorism while going about their innocent business you would have no problem with your government letting the people responsible for it live out their life in a prison....that is your right. But its my opinion that its also my right to protect my home & family within it just as its my opinion that I don't have any problem with the US government 'sending the message' that they will also protect the homeland and their citizens within it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickyCat Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 .....and yes I agree with Bengal Backer. These other guys should be put to death too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Yeah & as others pointed out, they knew they were likely to end up dead one way or the other from the start. So what does that message get us other than the satisfaction of some totally inadequate revenge? It's certainly not going to prevent the next attack from happening. Also, while this case in particular doesn't leave much room for doubt, given the number of other cases being overturned lately where people have spent decades in prison for things they didn't do I don't trust our criminal justice system with the power over life and death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickyCat Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Yeah & as others pointed out, they knew they were likely to end up dead one way or the other from the start. So what does that message get us other than the satisfaction of some totally inadequate revenge? It's certainly not going to prevent the next attack from happening. Also, while this case in particular doesn't leave much room for doubt, given the number of other cases being overturned lately where people have spent decades in prison for things they didn't do I don't trust our criminal justice system with the power over life and death. While I do understand the criminal justice system is not perfect that is a totally different subject than what we are ultimately discussing here. These types of attacks/terrorism (such as the Boston bombing, Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, etc) are brought upon by people who openly admit to their wrongdoing, either from their own mouths or as in Tsarnaev's case through the mouth of his attorney. There is no doubt that the people who committed these types of crimes are guilty because they freely and openly admit to them. Their causes/beliefs are the reason they do these terrible deeds so they want their stories to be aired & heard. As far as the question of "what does the message give us other than the satisfaction of some totally inadequate revenge"? Maybe to you its just totally inadequate revenge but I would bet to the parents, family, classmates and friends of this now deceased 8 year-old little fella it is justice. Martin William Richard Now the message the government is sending to the rest of the world and its own citizens is this.....You will not come onto our soil and committ an act of terrorism that takes the lives of our innocent citizens in the name of whatever cause you believe in, freely admit to it and be able to walk away with your own life. As a citizen of the US I have zero problems with that message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 This is just so sad all around. Such a tremendous waste of life and promise. Because of my spiritual beliefs I am against capital punishment, so for me, this simply adds to the tragedy. Ditto. But I'm also against it because I don't like the idea of making him a martyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Ditto. But I'm also against it because I don't like the idea of making him a martyr I don't think you're making him a martyr, you're just making him dead. Most definitions of martyr say something to the effect of someone who is killed, or made to suffer for adhering to their religion. That isn't why he should be put to death. He should be put to death because he killed and maimed innocent people, his reasons for doing it don't really matter. If he was Christian who bombed an abortion clinic and killed people, he still should be put to death. Also, life in prison is being made to suffer, so either sentence would be making him a martyr if his religion was the reason he was convicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 If you don't think executing him will raise his profile tremendously among his supporters you're kidding yourself. Also, if he was a Christian that had killed people in an abortion clinic bombing, he most likely would not have received the death penalty. That's not just speculation btw, I mean that if you look at the stats for sentencing there is a clear racial/ethnic bias, up to and including the death penalty. We do not, as a society, enforce the law evenly. Which is another reason I don't trust our bureaucracy with that kind of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Yeah backer sorry but to think there isn't risk of him becoming a martyr is naive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yeah backer sorry but to think there isn't risk of him becoming a martyr is naive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk I do admit to being a little confused though. I was just reading one of the other threads where several of you were saying that Islam is a religion of peace, yet here you appear to be saying that giving him the death penalty will make him a martyr in the eyes of, I guess Islamists? Wouldn't peaceful Islamists be just as pissed about what he did as anyone else? Therefore, the only ones who would consider him to be a martyr would be "radical Islamists", who you guys say don't really exist. So who would consider him a martyr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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