Jamie_B Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 A martyr in the eyes of those who have a warped and incorrect view of Islam. Thus not Muslims but psychopaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 A martyr in the eyes of those who have a warped and incorrect view of Islam. Thus not Muslims but psychopaths One man's psychopath is another man's terrorist is yet another man's freedom fighter... ? :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickyCat Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Don't care what you wanna label him (pyschopath, terrorist, brainwashed, martyr, freedom fighter...etc) or what his race/ethnic background is or what his cause was for doing what he did. I also don't feel the least bit sorry for him. My sympathy lies with the victims. This dude killed 3 people, including an 8 year old kid, and permanently disfigured many others with his actions.....and has openly admitted through his attorney doing so. There is no predjudice, there is no "oops we got the wrong dude"....its open & shut guilty, no doubt. Lil Martin Richard for one didn't get to live another day so I have no sympathy that the jury found that Tsarnaev's life should end also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I don't know why we should care about the twisted minds of the few that would proclaim what this dirtbag did as worthy of "martyrdom", which is an antiquated a religious concept as I can think of. Fuck them, who cares? Seriously, there will always be people that want to flood the world with their warped view of mankind. Putting this guy to death isn't going to make a difference to them, they will always be there and will always want to commit random acts of violence due to their far-out beliefs. I want those motherfuckers dead as well. I realize you can't kill everyone but you can't please everyone either, and you have to draw a line somewhere. Tolerance only goes so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 A martyr in the eyes of those who have a warped and incorrect view of Islam. Thus not Muslims but psychopaths As Bung says above, why should we care what they think? Will they stop wanting to kill us if we give him life in prison instead? Of course not. So, as you said: A martyr in the eyes of those who have a warped and incorrect view of Islam. Thus not Muslims but psychopaths Is that a good reason not to execute him? Because psychopaths might consider him a martyr? I say no. Do you still say yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I don't think one needs to feel sorry for him to understand that killing him makes him martyr for others who might decide to do something in his name. Violence begats violence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 This seems aprapo to the conversation we're having re: Islam and those who might warp it. http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/reza-aslan-its-not-gods-fault-if-you-use-religion-to-justify-hate-youre-just-a-bigot/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I don't think one needs to feel sorry for him to understand that killing him makes him martyr for others who might decide to do something in his name. Violence begats violence Yet I see in other threads several of you ridiculing any notion that groups like ISIS present any sort of threat to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yet I see in other threads several of you ridiculing any notion that groups like ISIS present any sort of threat to us. You will have to check the timeline, I wasn't concern (and still am not hugely concerned) with ISIS until Boko Haram, who I view as a far more serious group, joined them. That said it isnt our fight and we will do more damage getting into it than letting those who live in the region fight them themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yet I see in other threads several of you ridiculing any notion that groups like ISIS present any sort of threat to us. AFAIK the Boston bombers had no connection to ISIS? And for my part, what I actually said was that a domestic terrorist group like the KKK has already killed far more Americans than ISIS probably ever will, and yet they are allowed to operate freely. Like I said before - he's not being executed for the crime, he's being executed for the motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I want to make something absolutely crystal fucking clear. My feelings against the death penalty have NOTHING to do with sympathy. PERIOD. It's fucking insulting that would even be brought up. And it sure as hell isn't about tolerance either. Again, it's insulting that someone would even infer this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I want to make something absolutely crystal fucking clear. My feelings against the death penalty have NOTHING to do with sympathy. PERIOD. It's fucking insulting that would even be brought up. And it sure as hell isn't about tolerance either. Again, it's insulting that someone would even infer this. I dont get insulted so much as waive it off as the person not really thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I dont get insulted so much as waive it off as the person not really thinking. How can you not get insulted by someone insinuating that you are in some way sympathetic to a terrorist and mass murderer of innocents? I can think of little that is more insulting to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 How can you not get insulted by someone insinuating that you are in some way sympathetic to a terrorist and mass murderer of innocents? I can think of little that is more insulting to be honest. When someone says something like that it becomes completely clear to me that they cant get past their own desires for vengeance to turn their brain on to understand that justice and vengeance are separate things and that you can seek justice without vengeance. If they cant understand that, I realize they aren't too bright, so I don't get insulted by stupid people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 AFAIK the Boston bombers had no connection to ISIS? And for my part, what I actually said was that a domestic terrorist group like the KKK has already killed far more Americans than ISIS probably ever will, and yet they are allowed to operate freely. Like I said before - he's not being executed for the crime, he's being executed for the motive. I said groups like ISIS, and there are stories out there, although you guys will doubt the sources. I don't know, but there is a picture of him in his bedroom I guess, sitting under an ISIS style flag. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=boston+bomber+isis But you seem to contradict yourself unless I misunderstand what you're saying. If he's not connected to ISIS type groups, what is this motive you're saying he's going to be executed for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 How can you not get insulted by someone insinuating that you are in some way sympathetic to a terrorist and mass murderer of innocents? I can think of little that is more insulting to be honest. Somehow I can easily put myself in your shoes. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 My sentiments about the death penalty are as strong as Lucid's, with whom I agree completely. I do think that in cases of national security that the death penalty ought to be a consideration. But in this instance, I don't think Tsarnaev meets that threshold. This strikes me as revenge porn, as T-Dub pointed out. This brief article comes to a similar conclusion. One commentator charactized it as festishizing revenge--which I think is an apt and insightful way to view the situation. I think putting the guy away for life without parole would be sufficient to serve the cause of justice. And while I agree with Backer that prison ought to be about rehabilitation, and in this case even if Tsarnaev were to find his way to some kind of personal redemption, I do think his crime is heinous enough to warrant keeping him behind bars forever. As a political matter, sometimes you just can't let a person back into wider society even if the perpetrator becomes sincerely and honestly remorseful. And I do believe that redemption-in-spirit is possible for most people except for extreme sociopaths. But that doesn't mean we are obligated to set free a genuinely redemptive soul if the crime is as foul as this one is. One the other hand, as a purportedly civil society which makes claims to higher moral authority, our attention to certain principles of Universal Justice ought to trump any initial and half-baked impulses to exterminate the bad actors in the world. How does it serve us to climb into the gutter with those who mete out their justice with violence and hate? Human lives are brief and the life of a nation is only somewhat more extended in time. But all nations eventually come to pass, too. And if we look down all the time, with our noses in the mud and our eyes blinded by nervous sweat--because we all know deep down in our souls that how the United States is acting in the world at present is centered on the kind of retributive justice that only leads to tit-for-tat punch ups--how will we meet our Maker? Or, for the non-religious among us (of whom I am one), how does our behavior reflect across the millenia when the course of human history is tolled? We're better than this. Really. As powerful as this nation is, it ought to be enough to neutralize the bad actors without responding in kind and besmirching our collective souls. Anything less is simply petty law of the jungle justice--which is to say, not any substantive kind of justice at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I said groups like ISIS, and there are stories out there, although you guys will doubt the sources. I don't know, but there is a picture of him in his bedroom I guess, sitting under an ISIS style flag. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=boston+bomber+isis But you seem to contradict yourself unless I misunderstand what you're saying. If he's not connected to ISIS type groups, what is this motive you're saying he's going to be executed for? What are "ISIS-type groups"? I said ISIS, not terrorists in general. The KKK is an ISIS-type group, unless you're just hung up on religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Since he was mentioned upthread: In an op-ed published in The Boston Globe several weeks before today’s verdict, the family of 8-year-old Martin Richard asked that Tsarnaev not be given the death penalty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Since he was mentioned upthread: It's often the case that it is the spectators calling for blood in these things while the family only wishes for no more loss of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickyCat Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 When someone says something like that it becomes completely clear to me that they cant get past their own desires for vengeance to turn their brain on to understand that justice and vengeance are separate things and that you can seek justice without vengeance. If they cant understand that, I realize they aren't too bright, so I don't get insulted by stupid people. So people who have a different opinion on these matters than yourself are just not too bright & stupid? What a fuckwad asshole righteous prick you are. Carry on your Holiness....do tell us how your way of life and your train of thought are the only just ones worth speaking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I don't think one needs to feel sorry for him to understand that killing him makes him martyr for others who might decide to do something in his name. Violence begats violence Yet I see in other threads several of you ridiculing any notion that groups like ISIS present any sort of threat to us. AFAIK the Boston bombers had no connection to ISIS? And for my part, what I actually said was that a domestic terrorist group like the KKK has already killed far more Americans than ISIS probably ever will, and yet they are allowed to operate freely. Like I said before - he's not being executed for the crime, he's being executed for the motive. I said groups like ISIS, and there are stories out there, although you guys will doubt the sources. I don't know, but there is a picture of him in his bedroom I guess, sitting under an ISIS style flag. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=boston+bomber+isis But you seem to contradict yourself unless I misunderstand what you're saying. If he's not connected to ISIS type groups, what is this motive you're saying he's going to be executed for? What are "ISIS-type groups"? I said ISIS, not terrorists in general. The KKK is an ISIS-type group, unless you're just hung up on religion. This is the string of posts and replies. We are talking about whether or not putting him to death makes him a martyr. I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. What does the KKK have to do with Jamie thinking he will be a martyr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 This is the string of posts and replies. We are talking about whether or not putting him to death makes him a martyr. I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. What does the KKK have to do with Jamie thinking he will be a martyr? Again, trying to determine what you mean by "ISIS-type groups". IDK what ISIS has to do with anything - you brought them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 So people who have a different opinion on these matters than yourself are just not too bright & stupid? What a fuckwad asshole righteous prick you are. Carry on your Holiness....do tell us how your way of life and your train of thought are the only just ones worth speaking of. He was saying that about someone who thinks we have sympathy for this asshole. And if that is truly what you think then I agree with him, and also think that you can shove that straight up your ass.. If not, then no harm no foul, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 So people who have a different opinion on these matters than yourself are just not too bright & stupid? What a fuckwad asshole righteous prick you are. Carry on your Holiness....do tell us how your way of life and your train of thought are the only just ones worth speaking of. It's not a matter of difference of opinion it's your inability to see past your desire for vengeance and your suggestion that others who don't seek it don't seek justice. It's not my issue that you can't differentiate between the two. Then get upset about it when you're suggesting people like Lucid and I don't want justice or feel sorry for him. I can choose to get pissed off at such ignorance or I can recognize it for the ignorance it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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