Don't believe in the death penalty? (Merged w/ Charleston Church Shooting)

[BengalBacker]

Added here, it seemed somehow to fit.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/06/19/officer-down-madisonville/28974101/

Prayers to Officer Kim.

 

What a damn shame. If you want to commit suicide, just do it. Don't take innocent people with you.

[HairOnFire]

Better yet, send him to Guantanamo Bay like any other terrorist.

 

 

Seems like everyone is calling this guy a terrorist instead of what he really is.

[T-Dub]

 

 

Seems like everyone is calling this guy a terrorist instead of what he really is.

 

 

Which is?

 

 

 

 

(This should be good.)

[HairOnFire]

 

 

Which is?

 

Calling him a white supremacist or racist mass murderer seems to describe him far better than some generic terrorist label. 

 

For example, Charles Manson wanted to start a race war too but to my knowledge he wasn't classified as a terrorist despite the fact he had dozens of people following his orders and targeted victims based upon their economic status or religion.

 

Just feels like various groups are using lanquage and buzz words like terrorism in an attempt to deflect what a lone gunmans motivation really was.

 

 

 

Gotta say I will be watching closely when they get the guy to see how he is portrayed & what sort of, eh. connections he may have.

 

Well, beyond a willingness to murder people you don't know I doubt he has many connections or things in common with the prisoners being held at Guantanamo Bay.

 

And his actions probably won't provoke a large-scale military response from many nations across the globe.

 

In fact, if Roof were sent to Guantanamo Bay as you suggest most people would fail to see the connection.

[BengalBacker]

[T-Dub]

 

Calling him a white supremacist or racist mass murderer seems to describe him far better than some generic terrorist label. 

 

For example, Charles Manson wanted to start a race war too but to my knowledge he wasn't classified as a terrorist despite the fact he had dozens of people following his orders and targeted victims based upon their economic status or religion.

 

Just feels like various groups are using lanquage and buzz words like terrorism in an attempt to deflect what a lone gunmans motivation really was.

 

 

one second, one second..

 

 

*checks off "loner " and "gunman" bingo squares*

 

 

So yeh.. So if this guy shot up a synagogue and said it was for Islam, he wouldn't be a terrorist?

 

You do understand that "terrorist" isn't defined by any particular religion, yes? Apparently you think a military response would make it terrorism though so I'm probably wasting my time.

 

It's not "just a buzzword" when his punishment and civil rights in general are going to be applied in a totally different way.

 

 

Not knowing what a word means doesn't make it meaningless.

[BengalBacker]

How about this? Rather than taking away their belts, hang a noose in every jail cell and give them a stool. Let them take themselves out if they want. :)

[|Lucid|]

 

Nah, I didn't expect anyone's opinions to be changed, just trying to make people think.

 

I'm not pro death penalty because I think it's a deterrent, or even for vengeance really. I just think that some people commit acts so heinous that society should remove them. They have given up their right to live in my opinion. Not all life is so precious that we should preserve it no matter what. Anyone who disagrees, I hope you are also against abortion to be consistent.

 

Sorry, I don't consider an Embryo to be any more life than the sperm you spill freely or the eggs that are flushed monthly. Am I against partial birth abortions? ABSOLUTELY.  After the first trimester? yeah, but not absolutely. There are conditions which I think may require special consideration.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

[HairOnFire]

 

 

one second, one second..

 

 

*checks off "loner " and "gunman" bingo squares*

 

Well, gunman doesn't seem to be in question and the shooters own manifesto notes how he acted alone because he didn't know any skinheads or KKK members.

 

So I guess he was a terrorist cell of one, right?

 

 

 

 

You do understand that "terrorist" isn't defined by any particular religion, yes? Apparently you think a military response would make it terrorism though so I'm probably wasting my time.

 

I agree you're wasting your time if you think his motivation and actions are the same as those being detained at Guantanamo Bay.

 

 

 

 

 

So yeh.. So if this guy shot up a synagogue and said it was for Islam, he wouldn't be a terrorist?

 

Roof said he chose Charlotte because at one time it had the highest ratio of blacks to whites in the nation.

 

He said he chose the church because it was a historic symbol of black struggle. 

 

Seems to me he was motivated by hatred for a race of people based upon their skin color.

 

In short, a hate crime.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not "just a buzzword" when his punishment and civil rights in general are going to be applied in a totally different way.

 

He's already confessed.

 

Further, his final punishment will be the same regardless of whether his crime is described as domestic terrorsism, a hate crime, or mass murder.

 

If it makes you feel better to call him a domestic terrorist instead of a racist white supremacist then go ahead but hate crime seems to describe what happened very well without adding the now generic and mostly misleading term of terrorist. 

 

 

 

Not knowing what a word means doesn't make it meaningless.

 

The director of the FBI doesn't think it was politically motivated and I agree.

 

That said, I'm guessing Roof would appreciate it if his crime was seen as a well thought out political crime instead of a horrfic act of petty hatred.

 

As a result he'd probably agree with you more than me.

[T-Dub]

How about this? Rather than taking away their belts, hang a noose in every jail cell and give them a stool. Let them take themselves out if they want. :)

 

 

He's much more likely to find kindred spirits in prison amongst the AN or whatever they call themselves these days

[T-Dub]

 

As a result he'd probably agree with you more than me.

 

 

I see your transparent ad hominem attacks aren't limited to football.

[HairOnFire]

 

 

I see your transparent ad hominem attacks aren't limited to football.

 

Well, as long as we're sharing I think your Guantanamo Bay rant is rock stupid.

[BengalBacker]

 

Sorry, I don't consider an Embryo to be any more life than the sperm you spill freely or the eggs that are flushed monthly. Am I against partial birth abortions? ABSOLUTELY.  After the first trimester? yeah, but not absolutely. There are conditions which I think may require special consideration.

 

 

Well, then I think you are creating your own definitions of what constitutes life based on nothing but what you're comfortable with. Are there any special conditions where you are okay with the death penalty? BTW, like I've said before, I don't think abortion should be illegal. At least I'm consistent.

[T-Dub]

 
Well, as long as we're sharing I think your Guantanamo Bay rant is rock stupid.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[|Lucid|]

So you support late term abortions, and you don't consider the life if the mother to be a mitigating factor?

Nice to know you hate women and children, but at least you're consistent.

See, I can be a dick too.
 

 
 
Well, then I think you are creating your own definitions of what constitutes life based on nothing but what you're comfortable with. Are there any special conditions where you are okay with the death penalty? BTW, like I've said before, I don't think abortion should be illegal. At least I'm consistent.

[BengalBacker]

So you support late term abortions, and you don't consider the life if the mother to be a mitigating factor?

Nice to know you hate women and children, but at least you're consistent.

See, I can be a dick too.
 

 

lol

 

I think abortions are horrible and I don't support them at all, but I don't think they should be illegal.

[HairOnFire]

I'm thinking that if his roommate heard him talking about inciting a race war for the previous 6 months and didn't tell anyone he should probably be charged as an accessory.

 

Better charge Roof's black next door neighbor too because Roof told him a week before the shooting that he was thinking about shooting up a college campus.

[|Lucid|]

 

lol

 

I think abortions are horrible and I don't support them at all, but I don't think they should be illegal.

 

I actually think we are in agreement here.. I would never support an abortion other than supporting someone else's decision to do so.. But I put my foot down at late term abortions, and partial birth abortions should never happen.

[BengalBacker]

 

I actually think we are in agreement here.. I would never support an abortion other than supporting someone else's decision to do so.. But I put my foot down at late term abortions, and partial birth abortions should never happen.

 

 

What really bothers me is with the availability of birth control, people are seemingly too lazy to do what it takes to keep from getting pregnant to begin with. Most abortions are done for convenience.

[|kennethmw|]

 

I actually think we are in agreement here.. I would never support an abortion other than supporting someone else's decision to do so.. But I put my foot down at late term abortions, and partial birth abortions should never happen.

 

Well, late term abortions are very rare, the US averages about 100 a year, and few if any, are simply a choice to abort a healthy child.  I don't think very many people that are pro-choice, are pro abortion, we just believe that a woman should be able to make her own decisions without government intervention, at least until the fetus is viable. 

[|kennethmw|]

 

 

What really bothers me is with the availability of birth control, people are seemingly too lazy to do what it takes to keep from getting pregnant to begin with. Most abortions are done for convenience.

 

You do understand that Birth Control is not an absolute, don't you?  In fact, many of the women that end up getting abortions were on some sort if contraceptive when they conceived.  Additionally, it doesn't help when a whole segment of our community is trying to teach abstinence and not even provide the education base to be able to understand how to avoid pregnancy. 

[|Lucid|]

 

Well, late term abortions are very rare, the US averages about 100 a year, and few if any, are simply a choice to abort a healthy child.  I don't think very many people that are pro-choice, are pro abortion, we just believe that a woman should be able to make her own decisions without government intervention, at least until the fetus is viable. 

 

I understand and agree with all of this Kenneth.

[BengalBacker]

 

You do understand that Birth Control is not an absolute, don't you?  In fact, many of the women that end up getting abortions were on some sort if contraceptive when they conceived.  Additionally, it doesn't help when a whole segment of our community is trying to teach abstinence and not even provide the education base to be able to understand how to avoid pregnancy. 

 

I don't really buy that. No, birth control isn't 100% reliable, but pretty close to it. I don't buy the lack of education reason either. In 2015, everyone knows how not to get pregnant.

[|kennethmw|]

 

I don't really buy that. No, birth control isn't 100% reliable, but pretty close to it. I don't buy the lack of education reason either. In 2015, everyone knows how not to get pregnant.

 

Bro, you don't buy anything that doesn't fit in your small circle of influence.  just look at the numbers, if it was 95% effective, 5 out of every 100 women could still get pregnant while on them.  And you don't buy lack of education?  Ask Bristol Palin and all of the other christian fundamentalists with 16 and 17 year old daughters that are mothers(or past abortion recipients).

[BengalBacker]

 

Bro, you don't buy anything that doesn't fit in your small circle of influence.  just look at the numbers, if it was 95% effective, 5 out of every 100 women could still get pregnant while on them.  And you don't buy lack of education?  Ask Bristol Palin and all of the other christian fundamentalists with 16 and 17 year old daughters that are mothers(or past abortion recipients).

 

Lol, my small circle of influence? Okay Bro.

 

Is it your contention that most abortions are done because their birth control failed? I'm sure that happens but I'll bet it's a very small percentage.

 

Bristol Palin and other Christian fundamentalists? WTF? I'm pretty sure she knew what causes pregnancy.

 

You always try to put me in some preconceived box of thought that you want to label me with. Remember, I'm atheist and I think abortion should be legal.