Don't believe in the death penalty? (Merged w/ Charleston Church Shooting)

[Jamie_B]

I dont really have time to go looking for it, but there are stats out there showing that the rate of pregnancy drops when full sex ed courses are taught vs abstinence only ones. Which begs the question in 2015 do kids really know how not to get pregnant?... you'd like to think so...

[|kennethmw|]

 

Lol, my small circle of influence? Okay Bro.

 

Is it your contention that most abortions are done because their birth control failed? I'm sure that happens but I'll bet it's a very small percentage.

 

Bristol Palin and other Christian fundamentalists? WTF? I'm pretty sure she knew what causes pregnancy.

 

You always try to put me in some preconceived box of thought that you want to label me with. Remember, I'm atheist and I think abortion should be legal.

 

 

Here's a quote:

 

Abortion is not used as a form of contraception. Pregnancy can occur even with responsible contraceptive use. Only 8% of women who have abortions do not use any form of birth control. Non-use is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated.

 

Here's the full article.

 

http://www.womenscenter.com/abortion_reasons.html

 

and here's another site:

 

http://contraception.about.com/od/abortion/a/Reasons-For-Abortion.htm

 

Here's another Quote:

• Roughly one half of all pregnancies in the United States are unintended. Forty percent of these pregnancies end in abortion.
• More than half (51%) of abortion patients reported having used a contraceptive method during the month in which they got pregnant. Of the women who had not used contraceptives, many believed they were at a low risk for pregnancy. In other words women were either trying to prevent pregnancy when they got pregnant, they thought they or their partner was infertile or otherwise felt that they weren’t going to get pregnant. This may indicate that the issue of repeat abortion is more related to a lack of education about pregnancy prevention and access to contraceptives than it is about a woman choosing to use abortion as their primary form of birth control.

 

and once again the article.

 

http://groundedparents.com/2015/02/05/foiling-fallacies-women-who-use-abortion-as-birth-control/

 

You constantly say I'm trying to label you, but in reality, your comments label you.

[BengalBacker]

Here's the first 3 paragraphs of your first link, which by the way appears to be from an abortion clinic that's trying to take any feelings of guilt away from the women who have abortions.

 

There are numerous reasons why women find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy and want to have an abortion. There have been several recent surveys done in the US that showed certain characteristics regarding patients who have abortions performed:

 

20% were age 19 or younger and 57% were in their twenties. 72% had never been married, and 59% had at least one child. A little more than 60% were below the federal poverty line, including 30% who were living in poverty. More than half of the patients had attended college or received a college degree. 31% of respondents were black, and 19% were Hispanic. 61% were less than 9 weeks gestation.

 

The most common underlying reasons for abortion were 1) they could not afford a child at the time and were unmarried (42%), 2) it would interfere with their education (38%), 3) it would interfere with their employment (38%), and 4) they were students or planning to enroll in studies (34%). Other reasons are having relationship problems, not ready for another child, or don’t want people to know they had sex or got pregnant, the health of the fetus, victim of rape, or became pregnant as result of incest.

 

 

More than half attended college or had a degree, yet they don't know what causes pregnancy? The rest of the bolded sounds like a matter of convenience to me.

 

Adoption is not an alternative to abortion, because it remains the woman's choice whether or not to give her child up for adoption. Only very few women who give birth choose to give their child up for adoption. Less than 3% of white, unmarried women and less than 2% of black unmarried women choose giving their child up for adoption. Women think that it is more of a sin to give their full born child up for adoption than to have an abortion.

 

Ummm... What? More of a sin?

 

 

Over 750,000 teenagers become pregnant every year. 80% of those end in abortion.

 

 

600,000 teenage abortions every year. That's fucking sad I don't care what side of the issue you are on.

 

Teenage mothers who keep their pregnancy face grim prospects for their future. They are likely to leave school, receive inadequate prenatal care, rely on public assistance to raise a child, develop health problems, or end up divorced.

 

Good reasons to make sure you don't get pregnant, except for the convenience of abortions.

 

From your second link

 

 

According to research, the most frequently cited answers women provide as reasons for abortion (and the percentage of women who provided them) are:

• Having a baby would dramatically change my life (74%)
• I can’t afford a baby (73%)
• Didn’t want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%)
• Having a child would interfere with my education (38%), work (38%) or ability to care for my other child(ren) (32%)
• I have completed my childbearing (38%)
• Not ready to have a child (or another one) (32%)
• Don’t want people to know I had sex or got pregnant (25%)
• Don’t feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child (22%)

• Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion (14%)
• Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus (13%) or concerns about their own health (12%)
• Parents want me to have an abortion (6%)
• Was a victim of rape (1%)

 

Other than the last 4, convenience.

 

 

As for this:

 

Here's another Quote:

• Roughly one half of all pregnancies in the United States are unintended. Forty percent of these pregnancies end in abortion.
• More than half (51%) of abortion patients reported having used a contraceptive method during the month in which they got pregnant. Of the women who had not used contraceptives, many believed they were at a low risk for pregnancy. In other words women were either trying to prevent pregnancy when they got pregnant, they thought they or their partner was infertile or otherwise felt that they weren’t going to get pregnant. This may indicate that the issue of repeat abortion is more related to a lack of education about pregnancy prevention and access to contraceptives than it is about a woman choosing to use abortion as their primary form of birth control.

 

 

The first point. I don't doubt that half of all pregnancies are unintended and 40 percent of those end in abortion. Again, we know what causes pregnancy. Just because they were unintended doesn't mean they weren't preventable.

 

The second point. Notice the wording. "More than half (51%) of abortion patients reported having used a contraceptive method during the month in which they got pregnant."

 

So if they had sex 20 times and used a condom once, this statement would be true.

 

"This may indicate that the issue of repeat abortion is more related to a lack of education about pregnancy prevention and access to contraceptives than it is about a woman choosing to use abortion as their primary form of birth control."

 

Bullshit! People aren't that fucking stupid. They are however, that irresponsible when they have an easy out to eliminate the consequences of their actions.

 

"In other words women were either trying to prevent pregnancy when they got pregnant, they thought they or their partner was infertile or otherwise felt that they weren’t going to get pregnant."

 

They felt they wouldn't get pregnant? Seems like a big enough deal to make sure you aren't going to get pregnant, unless of course it's more convenient to just get an abortion.

 

Again, I don't think it should be illegal, but spare me the bullshit excuses for it in the majority of cases. Also, about all those reasons I'm calling convenience. I'm not saying they aren't good reasons to not have a baby, they are. I'm saying they are even better reasons to make sure you don't get pregnant in the first place. Abortions are a horrible thing no matter how you look at it.

[T-Dub]

The world is incredibly overcrowded and suffering for it.  Why do we need more babies exactly?

 

 

Please try to answer without reference to millenia-old religious texts or other deeply-held personal superstitions.

[Jamie_B]

I'm not sold on this idea of over population, we have enough for everyone we just have to stop being so damned selfish.

[BengalBacker]

The world is incredibly overcrowded and suffering for it.  Why do we need more babies exactly?

 

 

Please try to answer without reference to millenia-old religious texts or other deeply-held personal superstitions.

 

You don't even read what I actually write, do you? I'm not saying we need more babies. I'm not saying abortion should be illegal. Since I'm atheist, I'm certainly not going to reference "millenia-old religious texts or other deeply-held personal superstitions".

 

All I'm saying is that it's a damn shame there are so many abortions and they are mostly done as a matter of convenience by people who are too irresponsible do what's needed to insure they don't get pregnant in the first place.

[T-Dub]

 

 

All I'm saying is that it's a damn shame there are so many abortions and they are mostly done as a matter of convenience by people who are too irresponsible do what's needed to insure they don't get pregnant in the first place.

 

 

Why?  That was my question.

[|Numbers|]

 
You don't even read what I actually write, do you? I'm not saying we need more babies. I'm not saying abortion should be illegal. Since I'm atheist, I'm certainly not going to reference "millenia-old religious texts or other deeply-held personal superstitions".
 
All I'm saying is that it's a damn shame there are so many abortions and they are mostly done as a matter of convenience by people who are too irresponsible do what's needed to insure they don't get pregnant in the first place.

SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND Abortions. That's a HUGE problem no matter which side views the situation.

That's about the same amount of war deaths in our first hundred years of existence as a country. ...or about the same amount as WW1 and WW2 combined.

[BengalBacker]

 

 

Why?  That was my question.

 

Your question was: "Why do we need more babies exactly?"

 

I never said we need more babies. I'm not saying those 600,000 teens who have abortions every year should be having those babies. Or those other women with their myriad of reasons why they have abortions should be having those babies. I'm saying they shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place.

 

With very few exceptions, those pregnancies could have been prevented.

[BengalBacker]

SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND Abortions. That's a HUGE problem no matter which side views the situation.

That's about the same amount of war deaths in our first hundred years of existence as a country. ...or about the same amount as WW1 and WW2 combined.

 

 

That's only teen pregnancies and it's that many every year.

[BengalBacker]

Even worse, from Kenneth's link:

 

20% were age 19 or younger and 57% were in their twenties.

 

So that 600,000 was only 20% of abortions according to his source.

[|SF2|]

The death penalty is a waste of time and money in this country.  Too expensive to put someone to death and the fact is with 14,000 plus murders every year, the few executions are hardly a deterrent considering they are done behind closed doors.

 

If you want this guy executed, put him in with the regular prison population and let the brothers take care of business. 

[T-Dub]

The death penalty is a waste of time and money in this country.  

 

 

100% agree but my #1 objection is that justice is not blind & I can't trust the State with that kind of power when we screw the pooch on so many less important things.  Feels like I'm reading about some innocent man getting released from prison after decades about once every couple months lately.  You can't overturn dead.

 

 

 

 

Or can you?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8GRQHsAVjI

 

If you don't like Gene Wilder then we're really gonna fall out

 

:ninja:

[|SF2|]

 

 

100% agree but my #1 objection is that justice is not blind & I can't trust the State with that kind of power when we screw the pooch on so many less important things.  Feels like I'm reading about some innocent man getting released from prison after decades about once every couple months lately.  You can't overturn dead.

 

 

 

 

Or can you?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8GRQHsAVjI

 

If you don't like Gene Wilder then we're really gonna fall out

 

:ninja:

Yeah, reading some of the evidence in those cases is pretty scary.  On the flip side you have the Timothy McVeighs and John Gacys who admit their guilt and chose to take the honorable way out i.e. refuse appeals to their death sentences.  Of course very few chose this route so they are statistically insignificant.

 

In today's world we should be able to sentence some cold blooded murders to death with irrefutable evidence but that doesn't change the fact that over the next 15 years, if he or she fights the sentence, the massive amount of money spent on appeals doesn't make sense and the excessive time frame isn't really swift punishment nor much of a deterrent.   Life with no parole is simple and cheaper.

[Go Skins]

Shomari Stone ‏@shomaristone

#BREAKING: FBI: Background check failure let Charleston church shooter suspect #DylannRoof buy gun. #Charleston9

[T-Dub]

Shomari Stone ‏@shomaristone

#BREAKING: FBI: Background check failure let Charleston church shooter suspect #DylannRoof buy gun. #Charleston9

 

 

I find it ridiculous that a sale can be made if the background check takes longer than 3 days.  What in the general fuck?  The bigger hurry you're in the less likely you need to have a gun at all.

 

 

Of course he could've just gone to a gun show and paid extra in a "private sale" with no check at all, so I'm not sure it matters that much.