|Numbers| Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I started thinking about this after hearing that they were no longer going to show reruns of Dukes of Hazzard. Anybody that's ever seen this can't help but wonder how far should we continue taking this out of our sight ? What about the variety of war memorials in cemeteries and or on headstones ? ...or museums ? ...or parks ? ...or monuments ? ...or the Hard Rock Café ? INXS jean jacket. ...or anything remotely connected to Lynyrd Skynyrd, Bubba Watson, Daisy Dukes, etc... ? Yet we have a man that's been accused by 30 different women still allowed to be on TV ? Is there a double standard that exists here in the United States ? FWIW, there should only be one flag flying above any capitol building and that is the US flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Note: Obama never had a campaign button with a confederate flag. However, he did say this in 2008. “Where the confederate flag still flies, we have built a powerful coalition of African Americans and white Americans.” This line came from Barack Obama’s race speech defending Reverend Wright at the Constitution Center in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Flag_desecration Flag desecration The divisive issue of flag desecration as a form of protest first came before the Supreme Court in Street v. New York (1969).[104] In response to hearing an erroneous report of the murder of civil rights activist James Meredith, Sidney Street burned a 48-star U.S. flag. Street was arrested and charged with a New York state law making it a crime "publicly [to] mutilate, deface, defile, or defy, trample upon, or cast contempt upon either by words or act [any flag of the United States]."[105] In a 5–4 decision, the Court, relying on Stromberg v. California (1931),[106] found that because the provision of the New York law criminalizing "words" against the flag was unconstitutional, and the trial did not sufficiently demonstrate that he was convicted solely under the provisions not yet deemed unconstitutional, the conviction was unconstitutional. The Court, however, "resist[ed] the pulls to decide the constitutional issues involved in this case on a broader basis" and left the constitutionality of flag-burning unaddressed.[107][108] The ambiguity with regard to flag-burning statutes was eliminated in Texas v. Johnson (1989).[109] In that case, Gregory Lee Johnson burned an American flag at a demonstration during the 1984 Republican National Convention in Dallas, Texas. Charged with violating a Texas law prohibiting the vandalizing of venerated objects, Johnson was convicted, sentenced to one year in prison, and fined $2,000. The Supreme Court reversed his conviction in a 5–4 vote. Justice William J. Brennan, Jr. wrote in the decision that "if there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea offensive or disagreeable."[110] Congress then passed a federal law barring flag burning, but the Supreme Court struck it down as well in United States v. Eichman (1990).[111][112] A Flag Desecration Amendment to the U.S. Constitution has been proposed repeatedly in Congress since 1989, and in 2006 failed to pass the Senate by a single vote.[113] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 There's a lot of misdirected rage going on here (in general, not this thread). What gives me pause is that there has been more attention given to the syndication banishment of a shitty 80's TV show which actually mocked the south than to multiple black churches being burnt in the current south... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 There's a lot of misdirected rage going on here (in general, not this thread). What gives me pause is that there has been more attention given to the syndication banishment of a shitty 80's TV show which actually mocked the south than to multiple black churches being burnt in the current south... I'm not totally clear on this entire subject because the flag issue appears to be symptomatic of a larger problem. Note: Some of us that liked those shitty 80's shows had everything to do with fast cars and short shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 There's a lot of misdirected rage going on here (in general, not this thread). What gives me pause is that there has been more attention given to the syndication banishment of a shitty 80's TV show which actually mocked the south than to multiple black churches being burnt in the current south... That's more or less how I feel - flying the CSA flag is kind of ignorant but I'm far more concerned with the ideology behind it. Banning some stupid flag isn't going to eliminate racism. In fact it serves as a handy identifier for people & places best avoided. Part of the beauty of free speech is the freedom for fools to make fools of themselves. In this case maybe it's ultimately better to have them exposed to the light of day instead of plotting in secret. Not to mention feeding into their persecution complex. I do think flying it over a government building is fucked, though. Mississippi I'm looking at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnickyCat Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Taking the Dukes of Hazzard off the air because the General Lee has a confederate flag on it is just plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 That's more or less how I feel - flying the CSA flag is kind of ignorant but I'm far more concerned with the ideology behind it. Banning some stupid flag isn't going to eliminate racism. In fact it serves as a handy identifier for people & places best avoided. Part of the beauty of free speech is the freedom for fools to make fools of themselves. In this case maybe it's ultimately better to have them exposed to the light of day instead of plotting in secret. Not to mention feeding into their persecution complex. I do think flying it over a government building is fucked, though. Mississippi I'm looking at you. "Don't let the Sun set on you...boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 That flag was surrendered when they lost. It was revived when the Civil Rights movement started. Flying it has nothing to do with heritage and everything to do with racism. I don't think it should be wiped out of existence, if people want to buy it and fly it they should have that option. But no public building should ever fly that flag. http://charlestonpost.nc.newsmemory.com/publink.php?shareid=0f95daf51&pSetup=charlestonpost#.VY_u-iEmsH8.facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 That flag was surrendered when they lost. It was revived when the Civil Rights movement started. Flying it has nothing to do with heritage and everything to do with racism. I don't think it should be wiped out of existence, if people want to buy it and fly it they should have that option. But no public building should ever fly that flag. http://charlestonpost.nc.newsmemory.com/publink.php?shareid=0f95daf51&pSetup=charlestonpost#.VY_u-iEmsH8.facebook What cracks me up is seeing one flying in Ohio.. If it's really about history, how about a battle standard of the 32nd Ohio Volunteer Infantry. Who? Yeah, my point exactly. Honestly considering picking up a Sumter Flag to fly at the house and my family had soldiers on both sides during the Civil War. Yay, heritage. Maybe it would catch on? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Sumter_Flag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Montana Bengal| Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Today is the first time I remember seeing one in Bozeman (and on the 4th no less). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Today is the first time I remember seeing one in Bozeman (and on the 4th no less). They should take that shit over the border to Idaho with the rest of the goose-stepping methlab commandos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted July 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Wrong person same ideology though. William Porcher Miles. The flag history has been researched pretty thoroughly. The person you mention did design one of the many incarnations of the flag but didn't design the one flag in contention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 William T Thompson designed the version that was the stars and bars in the corner with white being the rest of the flag he called it a "stainless banner" and it was used from 1863-65. IIRC that was the first irradiation that used the stars and bars on it thus being a "grandfather" of sorts to today's version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdWarrior Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 If you've spent any time talking to Southerner's, many STILL maintain that the civil war was not primarily about slavery. Obviously then, they don't see the flag as racist. In fact, ordering them to take it down from a government building forces them to, in effect, admit that the flag represents slavery. If that's the case, they have to admit guilt for the bloodiest war in American history. Does this mean that some whites (now in north and south) don't use it as a symbol of racism? Of course not. But the whole governmental flag aspect relates to the "noble" states rights cause in the minds of Southerners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 States rights to own slaves. Recall that one of the issues at the time was whether or not there would be slavery in the expanded territories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Getting rid of the Dukes of Hazzard infuriates me. Out of all the TV shows that have ever been on, that is probably one of the most family friendly, wholesome shows ever. Pull it because of a flag on the roof of the car? Idiotic. If they pull that then they need to pull All in the Family, The Jeffersons, Sanford & Son, the Carol Burnett show, Saturday Night Live, old Bugs Bunny and Tom and Jerry. The shit is never ending. I would think any TV or cinema company would fight to preserve the history of the medium. What a sad bunch of assholes a lot of people have become. Long live the General Lee!!! MULLY Also, it should be noted that no laws have been passed saying that places like Amazon can't sell rebel flag goods. No laws have been enacted saying that government buildings can't fly it. All of this is by choice (public pressure). Hopefully it will turn itself around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 You can go through quotes all day and cherry pick the ones that suit the cause. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Who's cherry picking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddChatter Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 That flag was surrendered when they lost. It was revived when the Civil Rights movement started. Flying it has nothing to do with heritage and everything to do with racism. I don't think it should be wiped out of existence, if people want to buy it and fly it they should have that option. But no public building should ever fly that flag. http://charlestonpost.nc.newsmemory.com/publink.php?shareid=0f95daf51&pSetup=charlestonpost#.VY_u-iEmsH8.facebook Great post old school. If someone wants to fly that flag on their property, vehicle or clothing I see no problem there. It does not belong on government property that represents and is paid for by EVERYONE.in that city or state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 https://youtu.be/V6SOdFrvWpI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Montana Bengal| Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 The really just replace the General Lee with the Robert the Bruce. :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Does this mean that some whites (now in north and south) don't use it as a symbol of racism? Of course not. According to news blurbs Confederate flags are an increasingly common sight in Europe, often displayed proudly with Nazi memorabilia. I don't think it should be wiped out of existence, if people want to buy it and fly it they should have that option. But no public building should ever fly that flag. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Montana Bengal| Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 According to news blurbs Confederate flags are an increasingly common sight in Europe, often displayed proudly with Nazi memorabilia. I think the discussion about different groups appropriating 'things' for political use is an interesting one. How the world loved the swastika - until Hitler stole it - http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29644591 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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