Guest ONYX Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Just came across this earlier today. I found this kind of interesting. I mean can you believe this guy? How could he think America would just attack a country out the clear with no reason. I mean.... our President and his intelligence will make sure theres a weapon of mass destruction there or something. And if that doesn't work, its because the guy who's a terrorist, who lives in the vicinity of the country who is supposed to have weapons of mass destruction....but not really cause they probably moved it like just before we attacked. And if that doesn't work we will bomb their land and people to liberate their land and people from "evil-do-ers". Gee wiz, can you believe this guy thinking we would invade his country what the hell is wrong with him. [url="http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/09/chavez.invasion.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/...n.ap/index.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Pot meet Kettle.... [url="http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/01/21/venezu6980.htm"]http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/01/21/venezu6980.htm[/url] [quote]Venezuela January 2004 Following an aborted military coup in April 2002, the tense standoff between supporters and detractors of President Hugo Chávez has continued, raising fears that it could lead once more to a breakdown of the rule of law. Persistent mediating efforts by the Organization of American States and other bodies have, however, helped avoid overt political violence. The country's political polarization has diverted attention away from other pressing human rights issues, including a longstanding pattern of police abuse that no administration has had the determination to tackle. Extrajudicial executions of criminal suspects by both state and municipal police forces are common and all too often go unpunished. Cases of torture continue to be reported. Violence and anarchy prevail in many Venezuelan prisons. Refugees from neighboring Colombia in areas close to the border face legal insecurity, difficult living conditions, and sometimes threats to their lives. Freedom of the Press Venezuela has a vigorous and uninhibited opposition press. Journalists, especially those who work for media that oppose Chávez, are in the frontlines of the political dispute. In 2002 and 2003, many were threatened or even beaten by angry government supporters, and pro-Chávez crowds damaged television installations on several occasions. In January 2003, four private television stations highly critical of Chávez (Radio Caracas Televisión, Globovisión, Televen, and Venevisión) faced an official investigation for breaching broadcasting regulations due to their explicit advocacy of a national stoppage that paralyzed the country. President Chávez warned publicly that they could lose their broadcasting licenses. By the end of the year, however, the investigation had still not been concluded and the stations continued to transmit. In May 2003, the National Assembly began debating a government bill on the "social responsibility" of radio and television stations that proposed excessive restrictions on the content of these media. The bill met opposition in the legislature, however, and had not been approved by the end of the year. Police Killings According to the respected nongovernmental human rights group PROVEA, 130 people, most of them young male criminal suspects, were victims of extrajudicial execution by national, state, and municipal police forces between October 2002 and September 2003. About one in ten of the victims were children under the age of eighteen. In many cases, the police covered up executions by asserting that the victims were killed in exchanges of gunfire, despite contrary testimony by witnesses. Generally the police responsible for killings escaped justice. The public prosecutor's office reported that between 2001 and April 2003 more than seventy police officers had been charged in connection with unlawful deaths, but only ten had been convicted. On January 6, 2003, Aragua state police officers shot and wounded Robert Ignacio DÃÂaz, allegedly tortured him by half drowning him in a sewer, and then killed him. The same officers then allegedly murdered the victim's father, Octavio Ignacio DÃÂaz ÃÂlvarez, and his brother, David Octavio DÃÂaz, after the latter had discovered them torturing Robert by the roadside. The police also threatened and intimidated family members seeking justice for the killings. On May 10, Robert's girlfriend, Enmary Dahiana Cava, who had been pressing for a full investigation, was shot repeatedly from a moving car and later died in hospital. A companion who was seriously injured in the attack identified Aragua police officers as being responsible. In June, six Aragua state police officers were finally arrested and charged for the Diaz family killings. Prison Conditions Conditions in Venezuelan prisons are cruel, inhuman, and degrading. Overcrowding worsened in 2003, and the proportion of pretrial detainees increased for the first time since the introduction in 1999 of a new criminal procedure code. Some prisons are virtually controlled by armed gangs. Prison riots and inmate violence claim hundreds of lives every year; in 2003 PROVEA estimated the prison murder rate to be forty times the national average. Border Security and the Right to Refugee Status Lawlessness prevails along parts of Venezuela's 1,300 mile border with Colombia. The Jesuit Refugee Service in Apure State reported in August that it had documented forty-three execution-style killings during the year in one municipality alone, and that kidnappings were also on the rise. Colombian paramilitaries and guerrillas, as well as Venezuelan armed groups and criminal gangs appear to be responsible, but so far such groups have operated with near complete impunity. On August 27, 2003, two people riding a motorbike assassinated Joe Castillo, a Catholic Church human rights worker in Machiques, Zulia state, severely injuring his wife and small son. Castillo had been helping refugees and local peasant communities. After the attack, Castillo's human rights colleagues received death threats. The security of Colombian refugees in the Venezuelan border states of Apure, Táchira, and Zulia is of pressing concern. According to figures published by the United Nations High Commission on Refugees (UNHCR) in August 2003, 1,875 Colombians have requested refugee status in Venezuela. But UNHCR officials say that the real number of refugees is far higher since most try to blend undetected into the population. In August 2003, the government finally established a National Commission on Refugees, and published regulations governing its functions. As of October, however, the commission had failed to tackle the long backlog of asylum applications. Most refugees live in legal limbo, with limited access to healthcare and educational facilities, and at risk of reprisals by Colombian guerrilla or paramilitary groups, which cross the border freely. Since they have no documents as asylum applicants, refugees also face deportation back to Colombia as illegal immigrants. Key International Actors The Secretary General of the Organization of American States (OAS), César Gaviria, has played a key role in trying to help the Venezuelan government and opposition find a peaceful and constitutional solution to the political conflict. Negotiations under OAS auspices led to an agreement in May 2003 allowing a recall referendum to be held, in accordance with article 72 of the Venezuelan Constitution, for all elected officials (including the president, members of congress and local government officials) who had completed half their term by the end of the year. On December 1, OAS and Carter Center observers announced that an opposition drive to collect the 2.4 million signatures needed to hold the recall vote had taken place in an orderly fashion and without serious incidents or disruption by government supporters.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Those that live in glass houses..... [url="http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=americas&c=venezu"]http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=americas&c=venezu[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 [img]http://www.chez.com/georgebush/fr/actualites/2001/2001-02-16/chavez.jpg[/img] Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 [img]http://photos1.blogger.com/img/126/1966/400/hugo%20Chavez%20and%20Saddam.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 [img]http://www.hogonice.com/Pixes/rantbloggerche.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gonzoid Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Aug 9 2005, 06:27 PM'][img]http://www.hogonice.com/Pixes/rantbloggerche.jpg[/img] [right][post="127613"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] College conservatives are funny too... [img]http://webpages.charter.net/micah/oyead.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Aug 9 2005, 07:11 PM']Pot meet Kettle.... [url="http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/01/21/venezu6980.htm"]http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/01/21/venezu6980.htm[/url] [right][post="127605"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] You're making progress Jaime, you didnt deny his claims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Aug 9 2005, 07:30 PM']Those that live in glass houses..... [url="http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=americas&c=venezu"]http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=americas&c=venezu[/url] [right][post="127607"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Why not reference all the human rights violations against us also? I'd say they would be pretty comprable if not worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='CP1' date='Aug 9 2005, 09:27 PM']Why not reference all the human rights violations against us also? I'd say they would be pretty comprable if not worse. [right][post="127639"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] *sigh* My intent wasnt to get into a pissing contest about who does more or who is worse, rather to say that President Chávez isnt talking about Human Rights its a mask for his belief in Socialism as superior. If it was about Human Rights he'd get his own house in order. If you didnt read that article and see how it was about Pro Socialism, then I dont know what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:21 PM']*sigh* My intent wasnt to get into a pissing contest about who does more or who is worse, rather to say that President Chávez isnt talking about Human Rights its a mask for his belief in Socialism as superior. If it was about Human Rights he'd get his own house in order. If you didnt read that article and see how it was about Pro Socialism, then I dont know what to tell you. [right][post="127648"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Of course it was pro-socialism, that's very easy to see. I thought you implied something else, sorry. By the way, I don't hate the US as my posts would imply. I just hate seeing governments take advantage of people. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/33.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='CP1' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:02 PM'][b]Of course it was pro-socialism, that's very easy to see. I thought you implied something else, sorry.[/b] By the way, I don't hate the US as my posts would imply. I just hate seeing governments take advantage of people. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/33.gif[/img] [right][post="127653"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Your right, I wasnt clear, my bad. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/3.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengaljet Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I didn't read any of the internet articles. But I guess MOST POSTS wins in some of your minds. Post your asses off ,but YOUR SUPPORTERS are now in the M-I-N-O-R-I-T-Y. 61%-39%. 1 in 5 have changed their minds-what do they UNDERSTAND that YOU don't seem to get? Do you think they'll switch back,why'd they CHANGE their minds(blame the media-Foxnews lol)? sneaky at the start of this I was going to tell you to watch for" wolves " dressed in "sheep clothing" cause I knew what the attack was going to be like-hell most of their posts have been posted many times-same "lame" answers mostly from the internet. So sneaky is gullible . The 20% that have switched support would probably call you "Gullible" or maybe just "STUPID". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Do you think that many people are going to vote Democrat now ? I hope you are kidding bengaljet. What I mean, is that, just because someone does not support Bush now, that does not mean they are switching parties and political ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:14 PM']I didn't read any of the internet articles. But I guess MOST POSTS wins in some of your minds. Post your asses off ,but YOUR SUPPORTERS are now in the M-I-N-O-R-I-T-Y. 61%-39%. 1 in 5 have changed their minds-what do they UNDERSTAND that YOU don't seem to get? Do you think they'll switch back,why'd they CHANGE their minds(blame the media-Foxnews lol)? ONYX at the start of this I was going to tell you to watch for" wolves " dressed in "sheep clothing" cause I knew what the attack was going to be like-hell most of their posts have been posted many times-same "lame" answers mostly from the internet. So Onyx is gullible. The 20% that have switched support would probably call you "Gullible" or maybe just "STUPID". [right][post="127661"][/post][/right][/quote] Then read them and give some constructive criticism. You think maybe the # is changing because of the length of time we've been in Iraq? I do. Also do you think there is real coverage of the War? Is there not truth to the idea "if it bleeds it leads", and maybe that is why the support for things seems to be dwindling? Go and read my thread entitled "Michael Yon : Online Magazine", its a blog of someone is actually there in Iraq, its pretty fair and accurate. Not everything is positive and not everything is negitive. Give me more than "who posts more wins". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Marvin Lewis for President in 2012! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='Bunghole' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:30 PM']Marvin Lewis for President in 2012! [right][post="127671"][/post][/right][/quote] He's got my vote!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 09:14 PM'] I didn't read any of the internet articles. But I guess MOST POSTS wins in some of your minds. Post your asses off ,but YOUR SUPPORTERS are now in the M-I-N-O-R-I-T-Y. 61%-39%. 1 in 5 have changed their minds-what do they UNDERSTAND that YOU don't seem to get? Do you think they'll switch back,why'd they CHANGE their minds(blame the media-Foxnews lol)? sneaky at the start of this I was going to tell you to watch for" wolves " dressed in "sheep clothing" cause I knew what the attack was going to be like-hell most of their posts have been posted many times-same "lame" answers mostly from the internet. So sneaky is gullible. The 20% that have switched support would probably call you "Gullible" or maybe just "STUPID". [right][post="127661"][/post][/right] [/quote] I'm lost here.. I'm not gullible. Didn't anybody detect the sarcasm of my post? I personally thought it was on of my better work. See the irony? hint hint Tyrants calling other tyrants....."tyrants". "bombing the land and their people to liberate their land and their people" Nobody noticed that? Jihad killing their people to liberate them because they care about them. U.S. dropping bombs on Iraqi people to free them from the terrorists. A tyrant president calling out our tyrant president. C'mon people wake up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengaljet Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Aug 9 2005, 09:21 PM']Then read them and give some constructive criticism. You think maybe the # is changing because of the length of time we've been in Iraq? I do. Also do you think there is real coverage of the War? Is there not truth to the idea "if it bleeds it leads", and maybe that is why the support for things seems to be dwindling? Go and read my thread entitled "Michael Yon : Online Magazine", its a blog of someone is actually there in Iraq, its pretty fair and accurate. Not everything is positive and not everything is negitive. Give me more than "who posts more wins". [right][post="127667"][/post][/right][/quote] IF being in Iraq was the "RIGHT" thing to do-TIME DOES NOT MATTER. So they changed because "Mission Accomplished" didn't turn out to be the truth? Do you want a "free press" or just what W's clan wants us to know? W set the agenda on the War when he said"War is Hard".What do you want to see his profound words in "action" or we put up a swingset and by-the- way 10 US Marines were killed today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ONYX Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='Bunghole' date='Aug 9 2005, 09:30 PM']Marvin Lewis for President in 2012! [right][post="127671"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] How the hell is it when we talk about real shit....nobody agrees. But we all agree on fantasy shit. By the way.....Marvin's got my vote too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:36 PM']IF being in Iraq was the "RIGHT" thing to do-TIME DOES NOT MATTER. [right][post="127677"][/post][/right][/quote] Agreed... (however it was said, by I believe Osama or Sadam dont remember which, that we as a country were not ready for the type of war they would bring, in reference to our resolve... seems this is proving to be true) [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:36 PM']So they changed because "Mission Accomplished" didn't turn out to be the truth? [right][post="127677"][/post][/right][/quote] I never thought the Mission was Accomplished, and I dont think it will be any time soon. Nor do I think it will be in tearms of what we should want from this war, a strong Iraq that is our parter and one that lives in peace, this isnt going to happen in our lifetimes, maybee well be lucky if their grandchildren see this. [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:36 PM']Do you want a "free press" or just what W's clan wants us to know? [right][post="127677"][/post][/right][/quote] For every Foxnews, there is a CNN so, I dont follow what your saying here, if you mean do I want us to release all documents concerning this war, not untill its over and our boys are home and not if it risks national security, otherwise Id like things released sure. [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:36 PM']W set the agenda on the War when he said"War is Hard". [right][post="127677"][/post][/right][/quote] I never said it wasnt. [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:36 PM']What do you want to see his profound words in "action" or we put up a swingset [right][post="127677"][/post][/right][/quote] Does that even mean anything? [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:36 PM']and by-the- way 10 US Marines were killed today? [right][post="127677"][/post][/right][/quote] Im sorry to hear that, I hope it will not be in vein, but it is waaaaay to early to make that call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 10:36 PM']IF being in Iraq was the "RIGHT" thing to do-TIME DOES NOT MATTER. So they changed because "Mission Accomplished" didn't turn out to be the truth? Do you want a "free press" or just what W's clan wants us to know? W set the agenda on the War when he said"War is Hard".What do you want to see his profound words in "action" or we put up a swingset and by-the- way 10 US Marines were killed today? [right][post="127677"][/post][/right][/quote] Well, technically, time does matter. People get bored, tired and frustrated when things begin to drag on. Think of something that you like, but it can be hard and tiresome on the body. I like to mountain bike. When I first hit that trail, it's fun, exciting, I love the natural obstacles. Then it becomes hard to pedal after a spell. Going up a hill is hell. Then I hit a downhill spot, it's great, I love it, no work from my legs. I'm enjoying the ride, then there it is. Another hill to climb up. Hell on the legs, but I know what I get at the end of the ride is worth all the hard work and fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengaljet Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='steggyD' date='Aug 9 2005, 09:48 PM']Well, technically, time does matter. People get bored, tired and frustrated when things begin to drag on. Think of something that you like, but it can be hard and tiresome on the body. I like to mountain bike. When I first hit that trail, it's fun, exciting, I love the natural obstacles. Then it becomes hard to pedal after a spell. Going up a hill is hell. Then I hit a downhill spot, it's great, I love it, no work from my legs. I'm enjoying the ride, then there it is. Another hill to climb up. Hell on the legs, but I know what I get at the end of the ride is worth all the hard work and fun times. [right][post="127682"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Not riding bikes in Iraq-you wouldn't ride your bike if there were roadside bombs. Young people are being killed,injured. And now some of your support has vanished-they see it for what it is. IMO you sell the American people short,reference: Civil War,WWI,WWII.When push comes to shove(the RIGHT or CORRECT reasons) the American "WILL" finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 11:04 PM']Not riding bikes in Iraq-you wouldn't ride your bike if there were roadside bombs. Young people are being killed,injured. And now some of your support has vanished-they see it for what it is. IMO you sell the American people short,reference: Civil War,WWI,WWII.When push comes to shove(the RIGHT or CORRECT reasons) the American "WILL" finish it. [right][post="127687"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Reference: Vietnam, Korea... Our resolve goes both ways, but I hope your right, I hope it does get finished correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 [quote name='bengaljet' date='Aug 9 2005, 11:04 PM']Not riding bikes in Iraq-you wouldn't ride your bike if there were roadside bombs. Young people are being killed,injured. And now some of your support has vanished-they see it for what it is. IMO you sell the American people short,reference: Civil War,WWI,WWII.When push comes to shove(the RIGHT or CORRECT reasons) the American "WILL" finish it. [right][post="127687"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] They were allowed more propaganda and had better control over the people for the first two world wars. There is no comparison. They even abolished things related to opposing countries. They made the enemy into villains and did not care about how many people died. This is an entirely different war. And by the way, if you do not think people were tired of the Civil War, then you need to go back and read some personal stories from this time. Also, I believe we were so upset about fighting in WWI, that we made our voices heard a little bit more in the world politics scene. I'm not saying anything about riding bikes in Iraq, it was sort of a parable, if you will. Also, I am not a supporter of the war, neither am I a non-supporter. I'm merely a patient man waiting to see what happens before I decide if it was the right decision or not. This war in Iraq was called for by many people in the political scene, even John Kerry (if you see any pre-presidential election coverage). The war is needed for some big reason for America's future, I'm not sure what it is yet. Let's wait and see what happens in the next few years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.